With all of the chatter and comparison of the Hilleberg Akto and Henry Shire's Scarp 1, I'm surprised that no one has tricked up an Akto with a longitudinal cross pole or two to help with snow loading.
Has anyone tried this or thought about it? I wonder if this has crossed Franco's mind???? I hope he doesn't lose any sleep after reading this! ! ! !

Edited by ftm1776 on 10/23/2009 23:34:16 MDT.

Yes it has. I had a bit of a play with the Akto but by then HS was fiddling with the Scarp so I did not bother..
Franco

I set up a system once where I tied two guylines to hiking poles planted on either side of the crosspole, using the hiking poles to hold up the crosspole in case of snow loading. I also tried shoring up the crosspole from inside the Akto just outside the inner tent. I didn't spend much time figuring out how to secure the hiking pole from moving around, but the pole did make a difference. With the guylines outside properly staked out this could be very strong.

Same here...
This was a temporary solution to avoid the main pole collapse just in case one is caught with the Scarp in a snowstorm and no external poles.
Because it is an emergency "fix" there is a sock in between the trekking pole handle and the cross tent pole. Vertical pressure keeps it into place. Easier to do with the Scarp because of the symmetrical (two doors) design.
Franco

Edited by Franco on 10/24/2009 00:50:20 MDT.

I've been wondering the same thing. Of course, it would involve sewing tie-outs onto the outer tent fabric in several places, which would mean several places to seam seal, and yet even more weight to a pretty heavy tent. . .

But it would be nice for serious winter trips.

Also, I was wondering whether there is a glue that could bond to the tent fabric and eliminate sewing in some areas. Like some silicone based "super glue". At least as and adjunct to sewing and create a "welded" type of bond. A mechanical bond, like stitching, is probably more reliable. I think some manufacturers are welding their tent seems. Too much weight, too costly, I don't know, but marketeers will try anything for an edge up. Hilleberg has the mesh inner option now, so maybe the snow support feature will come on a future model of the Akto????

You might be able to use Clip Grips instead.

I would be concerned about tent pole failure if using trekking poles under the tent pole. In strong winds, a lot of stress would be placed on the tent pole where it is propped up by the trekking pole. Just a thought?

I'm a bit confused as to why you want to beef up the Akto for major snow loads. The tent's pole sleeve is large enough to allow a second pole to be added if needed. I tested my Akto in a very heavy, wet dump in my Boulder back yard (see my post in fall '06). The problem was that 4-6" of heavy snow would cause the head and foot of the tent to severely sag under the weight, to the point where the inner was touching my face. The single main pole held up fine. It seems to me that the weak link here is that the tent has a fairly flat top surface, which collects the snow. Please help me if I'm missing something here, guys.

"The tent's pole sleeve is large enough to allow a second pole to be added if needed. I tested my Akto in a very heavy, wet dump..."

Yes I agree. I have used the double pole method and one of the poles is the thicker diameter Easton I bought from Hilleberg. In a wet snow fall the problem I have experienced is not with the center poles, but sagging of the flattish area. As long as I keep waking up and knocking the snow off by banging on the roof of my tent I am OK.

It's not the ability to take snow over the pole but instead over the ends. Large amounts of snow will flatten the ends.

I should also add, instead of adding some sort of crossing pole structure to the Akto why not just replace it with a Soulo.

Perhaps sewing a guy loop at either end of the fly? You could guy out the ends to a trekking pole or a ski in the event that you would be faced with the ends colllapsing from snow load. It probably wouldn't be perfect, but it could extend the range of your tent a bit without much of a weight penalty.

There are other some major changes that I would make with the Akto but that is pretty much what Henry has done with the Scarp 1 . Maybe some can get the idea from these two pictures...



The first thing I would try would be to add a center strut as I have done with the Contrail. That will not "fix" the sagging but it should help keeping the tent in tension and the end up a bit longer (more snow).

I think that some miss the point about "extending" the use of certain shelters.
For example as I pointed out above, the trekking pole bit would be (possibly) of some use IF you do not have that second pole with you.
That is what I meant by "emergency"...
Franco

Akto picture from
http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg/akto/akto_fullsetup.php

Edited by Franco on 10/24/2009 18:11:37 MDT.

I never got a good look at the end of an Akto before seeing it in that picture. If you place a guy point about mid way up the fly, between the center hooped pole and guy lines at the end, that might take care of sagging under snow load.

Since the O.P. was talking about Mods to an Akto, I just assumed he was trying to start a conversation about "extending" the range of a tent which has a known proclivity to collapse at the ends under snow load. If I were in the market for a new tent, I'd go with a Scarp myself, but I just thought I'd add my $.02.

I don't have the link, but Franco suggested another solution.
That is, with an attach point(two points?) located midway between the lower end and the top pole, a hiking pole can be used as "lifting" guy strut and pull up on the tent outer from the mid point. This way, the only added weight would be the attach point(points??) on the outer tent and the necessary guy lines and pegs. If Clip Grips could be used, then the solution could be easily reversed.

Hey , where did my crow go??????????

Edited by ftm@excite.com on 10/25/2009 16:06:59 MDT.

That's odd. A crow just landed in my backyard.

Thomas you can see that guyout point in the Scarp (black nipple without strings attached) two thirds down from the pole.
Again that will not take that much snow but it may help. Still think that the extra strut will be more useful.
Franco

So what do anchor the guy line to, a tree branch overhead?

Very cool, Franco. Maybe a second pole guy line for additional lateral pole stability (a Y-shaped guy-out)? But I think what you have here will work in light wet snow loads. I guess somewhere here we need to consider the additional weight of the paracord. Still, only a couple measily extra ounces...?