I went up Mount Whitney last week, 25lbs with bear can and food and 2-3l of water. Weather was great on way up until late afternoon! Yes the forecast told us it would cool down and get windy....

And it did! Overnight, frozen water bladders, 70mph gusts and 28 degrees in our Rainshadow2. The head end (not door) was as close to a rock face I could find and we built up a mini wall as best we could. The stay line was attached to a 9" peg that was then further held down with approx 15lb of rock. Along the edge of the tarptent is netting however we placed 10lb rocks ALL along the longest edges - adding around 100lb each side. At the front, the usual 'two vertical sticks' were replaced with a 'V' formation, low, and the base thereof supported by more rocks.

We thought we were ready! I had a #3 (30deg)bag, elasticated type, room to move, on a Neoair, wearing wool bottoms and reg pants, socks and my windproof jacket, hat.

The wind blew the rocks off(billowing pressure from inside i guess forced them off), the sticks blew over and I ended up trying to cinch down the beak area as best i could with no stick support. When the wind blew, it pushed the tent fabric onto our bags, and blew hard! The top of the climb registered 100mph and 18 deg. I got cold legs and feet, body was fine. I had the footbox completely closed and remained in the upper area completely.

Clearly this isnt every day camping! what would have been a better setup for warmth and shelter? Would a different tent been better? Would a thicker bag made a difference?

100 mph winds? Really? That's more than hurricane force.

Anyway, I think a NeoAir in below freezing weather is pushing it. I also would have taken a down jacket. As for shelter, you probably would have been better off in a bivy sack, but a tent designed for alpine use, such as one of the Epic-walled tents from Black Diamond, are good for just the conditions you describe.

yep - we were told at Whitney Portal reports of 100mph and 18.... and my tent was cold and blowy!

Where around Whitney were you sleeping?
It sounds like your tent was really exposed.
Why not hustle down below treeline or hunker down in the boulders?

Regardless, you got some fun out of it, right on!

We were up at outpost trail camp - the last camp site before the big climb. It was exposed and we were hunkered down behind a rock as best we could, built little rock walls ourselves but in the end it was the elements that won! The Neo was actually warm enough and the jacket I wore was perefectly warm. It was my legs and feet that felt it most - and of course leaving the tent for my 'water break' so the distance between tent and pee decrease dramatically by 4am!

good news is - the tent didnt rip to shreds despite the giant buffets it received!

Loved it, cant wait to do it again!

It makes a huge difference if you can get to camp early and get all set up, have tea, and be in your bag with a Nalgene hot water bottle by the time the sun goes over the horizon. Doesn't seem to happen to me too often for one reason or another! Once I am tired and cold I am useless and it is hard for me to get organized.

I think in terms of 20 degrees below MSRT (manufacturers suggested retail temperature) in terms of bags but people report a lot of variation among manufacturers. Wear a down hooded jacket in the bag too -- Patagonia half zip down sweater hoody but every line seems to have a similar piece --sometimes. For stuff like Mt. Whitney in summer, I take a 15F down bag and layer underneath.

I consider 45 degree bag for staying in a heated hut and I'd have on midweight long underwear as PJS and light wool socks. LOL When I see 45 deg bag on summer high altitude gear lists, I am SO envious.

Some times take a light goretex (or whatever) bivy even in a tent -- get a couple extra degrees and helps with draft. Use the foil emergency bivy between sleeping pad and bag. Tried this as a sleeping bag liner as well. Whatever you do, don't put your sleeping bag inside the foil bag. I have done it! Like I say, I don't think right when I'm cold. Body length closed cell pad. Never figured out if Z lite is closed cell -- semi closed cell? Nalgene bottle of hot water (put it in freezer bag just in case but it never leaks!) in your bag. Platypus may work too and be a better option. Haven't poured boiling water in a bladder yet. Also, a couple of those chemical hand warmers floating around in your bag are amazing!

Also, if I were a guy I would be using a pee bottle. Yeah, there are ways women can do this but I haven't experimented yet -- last thing I want is pee on my sleeping bag!

Cold is a BIG problem for ME too. Hard to lighten my load!

Edited by backpackerchick on 10/07/2009 12:16:30 MDT.

Outpost or Trail Camp? Outpost seems pretty sheltered.

Edited by backpackerchick on 10/07/2009 12:09:50 MDT.

it was trailcrest camp. 12.5k ft , exposed, sun had gone, dinner with a tealight stove was most amusing in the wind. The cold reminded me of picking up teeth with broken fingers - not pleasant!

>>what would have been a better setup for warmth and shelter? Would a different tent been better? Would a thicker bag made a difference?<<

Warmer bag, stronger tent (or bivy), puffy layer for torso and legs, better site selection.

You probably saw winds of 40-50 MPH. I'd check your TT very closely for any damage that might be less than obvious.

I was up at Trail Camp ALL alone in early may -- still quite a bit of snow. Got about another two feet over the day on Trail Crest. On my way up to trail camp some intense guy in fatigues told me about that big rock that looks like a giant loaf of bread. He said I MUST camp there! I camped on the mountain side of that thing. I am glad I encountered him because the winds were very swirly and I doubt I would chosen as good a site up there all alone. The weather was how you describe. I had a warmer set up as well as axe and crampons (the permit office was pretty adamant about this! -- since I brought them I played with them, good time to practice, but think it was a little overkill) but I was COLD and alone! I thought there would be a little village up there -- I guess this is more as you get into the summer. I lolled about an extra night at Trail Camp. Some people had arrived and it was fun. Planned to hang out on the mountain for up to 4 days -- thought I might come back down to where the trails merge and do the mountaineer's route as well. Opted NOT. Weather had really deteriorated. I weighed in at about 38lbs. -- OUCH! (Bear canister rule was not in effect but took BV solo anyway -- marmots!) This prompted my subscription to BPL. LOL

That would be Trail Camp. I believe Trail Crest is the ridge at about 13,700 after the switchbacks. There ARE sites at Trail Crest -- talk about exposed!

When I got to Trail Camp, I looked around thinking where's the camp? LOL Talked to people who camped at that little lake a few hundred feet below. That looked pretty nice -- checked it out on my way down. The lady at the permit office had recommended I camp there! She said many people don't know about it.

Edited by backpackerchick on 10/07/2009 12:49:02 MDT.

And i was right by the side of the big loaf, everyone leaving telling stories of lost tents and ripped threads!

Tarptents are simply not designed for those kinds of conditions. We take a Nallo2 if we expect anything other than fine weather, and always a very light bivy bag when using a tarptent...just in case. And always a down jacket. The weather you describe can blow up here at any altitude and any time of year, so we don't risk it.

Thanks Lynn.

I will check out the Nallo. Never taken a tarp anywhere. Convinced I couldn't figure out a way to use it especially above tree line. I read Ryan's book and there seems to be a real art to the tarp. Hoping to learn about such things here.

I was in a Hubba HP -- I find it is sort of a 3+ season compared to other 3 season solo tents (have used the MacPac Microlight) -- felt fine tent wise. With good site selection and a couple extra stakes (it has some obvious options) -- think it is fine for this sort of thing. EASY and fairly light.

Are you saying the BIG LOAF turned out to be especially bad on this occasion?

Whatever the occasion, I am always sussing out other's set ups and asking questions.

This makes me want to go again. I was actually thinking of doing JMT now but really got daunted by the RE-SUPPLY issue this time of year.

Oh yeah, I've seen these, especially abroad. Classic. Bombproof, I hear. Have you used the Bibler (BD) I-tent? Very different design. Would be interested in pros and cons -- if holed up in there a couple days in a storm.

There's at least one amazing rock up there with a big indentation -- almost like a little cave. Probably more.

I haven't used the Bibler, so can't comment on pros and cons. But a couple of weekends ago I was at an outdoor trade show and crawled around the new MacPac line of tents...very impressive. They've finally adopted much lighter (looks and feels like silnylon) fabric, making their classic Minaret tent look like a contender for the Nallo2. It's nice how the asymmetric floor design accommodates both a taller and shorter person...something the Nallo2 was not so good at. Pretty bombproof design if pitched properly.

Is this hard to do?

"...what would have been a better setup for warmth and shelter? Would a different tent been better? Would a thicker bag made a difference?..."

Those conditions don't sound out of the ordinary for that elevation in October on the N American continent. A 3 season tent would help a little, but a 4 season tent was certainly called for in the conditions you describe. That would greatly reduce the heat loss from air movement around your sleeping bag.
If that is not enough, as suggested by others, you need more insulation. Don't neglect to consider insulation under as well as over your body.
I ofter wear my MontBell ThermaWrap pants in by sleeping bag. That can really help keep the feet warm.
Wearing gloves can help, you didn't mention wearing them.
Tim

Edited by ThinAir on 10/07/2009 13:53:39 MDT.