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Blair Gentes
(blastreach) - F
Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/05/2009 10:23:11 MDT Print View

Hi,

I've recently converted to a vegan diet and am eating 6 meals a day. The idea was to lose most of my excess fat and gain a little muscle. The reason I chose a vegan diet was because of my addiction to cheese ( I know it sounds rediculous, but I quit a long term smoking habit, but could not kick the cheese).

Wanting to gain some muscle, I have started working out again; fairly intensly. I've been browsing many fitness websites and forums and I have found that most people use dextrose and/or maltodextrin to spike their insulin levels for the absorption of their whey protein.

I have read in these forums a discussion about the short time window for glycogen production by the ingestion of carbs post excercise. Most seemed to agree this was true, with the window varying slightly. I found this was why many use the simple sugar dextrose immediately after a workout.

Now, I have also read that the consumption of dextrose can lead to the on set of diabetes, albeit misguided consumption.

I was wondering if consuming 80g of dextrose either by itself or a 50/50 split with maltodextrin combined with 20g of whey protein is a safe postworkout drink.

I'm asking you guys because most of you seem to be able to think critically and might be able to point me the safest way, as opposed to other forums. Even if it is a little off the backpacking topic.

Thanks for any help,
Blair

Edited by blastreach on 10/05/2009 10:27:12 MDT.

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: WNC
Re: Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/05/2009 10:36:46 MDT Print View

I'm not vegan so this may or may not help but the #1 recovery drink is simple chocolate milk. I add to that 20g whey and 10g glutamine. I've been doing that since January when I started working out 6-7 days a week and it's worked fine for me. My girlfriend is an ex-vegan and likes to use chocolate almond milk instead of cow milk and chocolate syrup so there is a decent vegan alternative.

Edited by simplespirit on 10/08/2009 19:34:44 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/05/2009 10:55:21 MDT Print View

I'd second the chocolate milk as a post-workout drink. It has the magic 4:1 carb/protein mixture everyone else is trying to synthesize in a lab.
I like it, at least it makes me feel good after hard workouts/lifting sessions.
I use the Carnation "Breakfast Essentials" mix. Learned about it from Michael Phelps...if this works for him as a post-race/workout drink, mortals like us should be fine
Not sure if milk substitutes would give the same protein to carb ratio though...

A. B.
(tomswifty)
re on 10/05/2009 12:18:17 MDT Print View

Why do you need to carb load? Is your normal diet low carb? I don't think you should need to worry about carb loading if not. If you're running out of energy during your workouts then you may be doing them too intensely. What kind of workout routine are you doing?

Honestly, I've really only heard of carb loading being useful for low carb diets (carb cycling) and endurance athletes before an event.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/05/2009 13:22:18 MDT Print View

"I have read in these forums a discussion about the short time window for glycogen production by the ingestion of carbs post excercise."

For the most part this can be ignored. The suggestion relates to uptake, not production. Yes, there is an "optimal window" for uptake, but if you're not heading out to do a 2nd tough workout later on, it just doesn't matter. In the 20 hours or so to your next session eveything will be taken care of.

Eat a normal snack, have a normal dinner, and live a normal life. It's not as hard as the marketing guys make it out to be.

Edited by greg23 on 10/05/2009 13:29:36 MDT.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Chocolate Milk? on 10/05/2009 16:31:01 MDT Print View

So, chocolate milk. lol. I've heard of it, but now that I read it here, I guess it's not a joke.

So, whole milk? 1%? 2%?

A. B.
(tomswifty)
re on 10/06/2009 09:13:08 MDT Print View

I use heavy whipping cream instead of milk in my shakes.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim)

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: re on 10/06/2009 13:21:46 MDT Print View

Gnarly!

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
carbs and sugar on 10/06/2009 15:02:51 MDT Print View

Warning: I'm no nutritional expert
I lost 55lbs and gained a lot of muscle doing in intense 2 day a week weight training over 10 months. If you are trying to lose fat and gain muscle, simple sugars and carbs are not good! Milk, and all dairy, is chalk full of sugars and should be avoided if your goal is fat loss. This includes fat free milk (read the sugar content). Most carbs are just complicated sugars; it all turns to fat when your body processes it. I don’t know how to do this on a vegan diet. I mostly ate whey protein, egg whites, chicken and fish and LOW carb (high fiber) veggies like broccoli. If you go full veggie, getting ample protein to gain muscle is going to be your challenge. Carb loading is only good before you expend energy, so eat high carb in the morning if you have to. Eat good carbs that aren’t processed or full of sugar. Corn is sweet and taste good because it is packed with sugar and starch, that’s why that feed it to live stock. Potatoes (baked) and oats are good carbs.

When in doubt, on a weight loss mission, make sure your:

Veggies are low glycemic index
Your protein is fat free
Eat low GI carbs in the morning

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
GI on 10/06/2009 16:54:15 MDT Print View

Watching the glycemic index of foods is beneficial which is why I often recommend carbs such as quinoa, lentils and pulses in general.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/06/2009 17:09:59 MDT Print View

"I was wondering if consuming 80g of dextrose either by itself or a 50/50 split with maltodextrin combined with 20g of whey protein is a safe postworkout drink."

This is not too far off the ingredients in a recovery drink I use after a really hard all day hike and in the evening every day of a backpacking trip. It works very well for me but everybody's physiology is different, so YMMV. I doubt very much if it will lead to diabetes in a healthy, active adult, otherwise both Hammer and First Endurance would be up to their company ears in lawsuits by now. However, there are lots of alternatives out there. The main idea is to start getting high G. I. carbs plus quality protein into your system within half an hour of ceasing endurance exercise, when cells are most receptive.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Dextrose and maltodextrin use on 10/06/2009 18:45:20 MDT Print View

A high GI drink is neither necessary for post recovery, nor desirable if fat loss is your goal. But I would recommend a hydroliysed soy protein drink right afterwards. I dieted for many bodybuilding competitions, as a vegan, using this approach. That, and limit your low GI carbs (lentils, beans, pulses etc...) to your first 3-4 meals, then nothing but protein and veggies for your last 2-3 meals. I would avoid grains if you are serious about fatloss, though brown rice is OK. For you this may mean a lot of soy protein in the evenings!

Blair Gentes
(blastreach) - F
thanks on 10/08/2009 17:00:17 MDT Print View

Thanks for all the responses.
I had been drinking chocolate milk post workout, but now I am a vegan.

I had no idea this is what carb loading was, I just thought that by eating these simple sugars boosted insulin output and protein was taken to the muscles faster. But really, I have no idea.

Just wondering; what are the benefits of taking glutamine as part of a post workout drink?

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
chocolate milk for a vegan on 10/08/2009 18:50:48 MDT Print View

chocolate almond milk could be a good choice for you (seems I am talking about the benefits of almond milk a lot of late - lol)

A. B.
(tomswifty)
re on 10/09/2009 09:52:33 MDT Print View

Whey is not vegan, right?

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
No Whey! on 10/09/2009 13:57:04 MDT Print View

Not last time I checked. Whey is a by-product of cheese and yogurt making.

Edited to add.... it also can contain a great deal of casein. In some cases up to 80%.

Edited by Laurie_Ann on 10/09/2009 13:58:35 MDT.

A. B.
(tomswifty)
re on 10/09/2009 14:50:23 MDT Print View

That's what I thought. I'm not sure the original poster knows this or maybe they don't care.

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
Re: re on 10/09/2009 17:11:04 MDT Print View

Evan (love your avatar by the way). Most true vegans wouldn't use whey. Vegans don't even use honey which took me awhile to wrap my head around. I had to be extremely careful in the writing of my second book because of the hidden meat and animal by-products in food. Being vegan isn't easy and I applaud those that manage to stick to their guns and maintain the lifestyle.

Blair Gentes
(blastreach) - F
whey on 10/12/2009 21:24:48 MDT Print View

Evan, as Laurie said; whey is not part of a vegan diet. I made a mistake: i used to use whey, but am now using hemp protein. Just used to saying whey. :)

PS. i've been frequenting the forums for a while and I always thought you're avatar was of a piece of cheesecake. Not even close haha.