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Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Score at walmart on 09/30/2009 13:28:18 MDT Print View

8 yds x 62" of 1.6 oz light gray ripstop. I think this will end up a hammock.

14 yds x 68" of 1 oz olive green ripstop. Quilt time.

$1.50 per yard

David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
Ripstop on 09/30/2009 13:59:58 MDT Print View

What department? Camping? Fabrics?

I always get lost in there and I think the only staff they work at the registers.

What type of thread would I use to sew the nylon?

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Fabrics Dept on 09/30/2009 14:05:42 MDT Print View

Fabric Dept

They are phasing them out in some stores. This one is still open so you might want to call your store first.

The assistant told me they had just sold some camo ripstop. She said they get ripstop in often too so I will have to start checking.

I would like some lightweight coated nylon.

Been a while since i have been in there.

The last I got there was DWR coated 1.4oz to make a test quilt. Wish I had bought it all.

This does not seem to be DWR coated, but I am not complaining.

I use heavy duty polyester thread.

Javan Dempsey
(jdempsey)

Locale: The-Stateless-Society
How can you tell the coating if it's not labeled? on 10/03/2009 08:54:18 MDT Print View

I bought some stuff last night, and I'm not that familiar with the coatings..

This stuff seems to have some coating for sure.. It has a semi-plasticy feel on one side.

I ran water over it, and it ran right off, with no penetration, but if I made a bowl out of it, and held a few cups of water, it would sort of "condensate" through.. No drops, just moisture.

I'm guessing this is DWR coated of some type? The stuff I go weighs like 1.9oz/y2

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Probably DWR on 10/03/2009 09:15:17 MDT Print View

I am no expert, but DWR, poly coated or sil nylon the water should run right off.

Non coated, some of the water will run off but some will "wet" the cloth.

I am almost 100% positive neither of the last is treated at all, or so very little and that might be why it ended up at walmart. Maybe I will spray it.

Also pretty sure the 1oz stuff is parachute material, but thats okay. At $1.50 I am not complaining.

I actually have enough material to build a hammock, an over and under quilt with some left over.

Mark Andersen
(MarkA) - F
Me too... on 10/07/2009 11:28:08 MDT Print View

Troy--do you have any plans in-hand for hammock and/or underquilt? I stopped by Walmart after seeing your post, and picked up 8 yards of uncoated olive green ripstop nylon (haven't weighed it, but feels like ca. 1 oz. stuff) and 8 yards of light gray with some sort of coating (the last of that roll). Total cost of about $24. I haven't tested the coated stuff like Javan did, but if I hold it to my mouth, I can't breathe through it at all, so should be waterproof, and it also seems very light. I will try to weigh them tonight.

My first thought was a 3-season quilt (ca. 25-35° in my neck of the woods) with the olive green, uncoated stuff, and some sort of light, solo shelter with the coated, gray. But, I'm wondering now if a hammock/quilt setup would make more sense.

I have been considering making something like the Sublite with the gray stuff. It's tempting to make a tarp, since it would give me some very light emergency shelter for a dayhiking pack, backcountry fishing daytrip, elk hunting "possibles" bag, etc., but only about 2 months of the year would be conducive to comfortable tarping in the kind of territory I haunt. The rest of the year I would want better protection from wind, rain, snow, and bugs. If I have to carry a bivy and maybe a net-tent, in addition to a tarp, to keep my bag dry and bugs at bay, I figure I might as well carry a light tent like the Sublite that gives full protection for about the same weight as all of that stuff combined.

I also considered making something like the SpinnShelter, but it seems to me that a side entry design like the Sublite, with the highest point toward the middle of the shelter (where our heads are when we sit up in a sleeping bag) is more sensible. Any input on that?

As for the quilt, any recommendations for plans for a synthetic-fill quilt? I have seen many plans, but wonder what others' experiences have been with any of these plans. What's easy? Which have best guidelines for sizing? Is it even worth considering down, given the extra cost and hassle?

It looks like (based on Tim M.'s post in another thread) I am looking at the 3.7 Combat or 5 oz./yd XP, to get to the temperature rating I'm after. I carry the honking big, 4 lb., 2" Thermarest (*gasp*) because I can't sleep comfortably with anything thinner, which really seems to boost the rating for any bag I use, even though I sleep fairly cold.

Any input is appreciated.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Re: Me too... on 10/07/2009 11:50:29 MDT Print View

I am not expert but....

I dont think either material is waterproof. Best to fill a fold up with water and see what happens.

That is exactly the same material I bought. I am going to try an asym hammock with the rest similar to Risk's Z hammock.

There is a pattern on whiteblaze I think but at any rate its 12' long x 5' wide and a trapazoid with 2'4" ends.

I am tall so I might make mine longer. I am also 235# so I really need 2 layer of the 1.6 ripstop. The green 1 oz is super thin.

I will whip the ends and have a velcro net top.

Probably do a garlington insulator (taco) out of 1.25 tyvek.

Not sure on the tarp, but probably an 8x10 and build a shaped winter tarp later.

I am stuck on the bottom insul now.

Also not sure about how to whip the ends of a asym trapazoid hammock yet.

You might want to look at this thread. 6-7# total big 3-4 hammock goal.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54691

I will be using a MB #1 spiral for a bag for now.

Probably start off with a neoair and a winged blue pad in a speer type extender for a pad, that way if I decide to sleep on the ground it will be in comfort.

Down over and under quilt will be lightest. A taco shell should extend the temp another 10-15dF so a golite ultra 20 quilt might be the way to go there.

My CCF pad will go between the sandwich and maybe the neoair and either the garlington setup or a dwon quilt in that space below.

I will post the hammock pattern and link if you want it.

Last time I asked about climasheild ratings, I got 2.5-45df, 3.7-35dF, 5-25dF.

Its a lot easier to work with than down. Down is a real PIA IMO, baffles, weighing stuffing etc. I worked with it about 30 years ago when I got a bad down bag that did not have the baffle ends sealed.

When I washe it, that was the end of the bag. It got converted into down mitts,booties and a quilt.

It was a pia to work with.

Edited by tammons on 10/07/2009 12:04:25 MDT.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Scored again on 10/07/2009 13:42:42 MDT Print View

This time 8 yds of 1.13 oz per SY of what looks to be silnylon or DWR ripstop. $12.

Its not as slippery as the stuff I got from quest though, so maybe its DWR. The defect is a black thread running though it.

Anybody know an easy way to tell the difference between DWR and Silnylon ??

Both are shiney but this new 1.13oz fabric is not as shiney as the silnylon from quest. It looks duller on one side than the other.

Edited by tammons on 10/07/2009 13:43:46 MDT.

Lori Pontious
(lori999)

Locale: Central Valley
re: waterproof nylon on 10/07/2009 14:14:12 MDT Print View

FYI, just in case, you don't want to make a quilt or hammock from waterproof material. DWR on one side, regular old ripstop will work well for a quilt. A waterproof hammock would be a bathtub by morning for me.

But if it turns out to be waterproof fabric, it would be a great tarp... maybe you could make something like the multifunction hammock/tarp/groundsheet/tent I saw... http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Hammocks/Grand%20Trunk%20AT%20Hybrid%20Hammock/Test%20Report%20by%20Curt%20Peterson/

Edited by lori999 on 10/07/2009 14:19:01 MDT.

Mark Andersen
(MarkA) - F
Weights on 10/07/2009 22:17:21 MDT Print View

Troy,

I think I actually got something different than your first purchase. The green stuff weighs in at only 0.77 oz. per sq. yd! The gray is 1.125 oz. per sq. yd. (probably the same as your 1.13 DWR-ish stuff--my scale only goes to nearest ounce, and is a cheapo, but I figure it's close, since I'm weighing 13 yards and dividing to get the per yard weight). Water runs right off the gray stuff (both sides) and doesn't soak into the fabric. When I made a cone out of a 3"x3" piece, filled it with water, it didn't seep at all. If I put quite a bit of pressure on it, small beads would start to appear. I would think a coating of waterproofer might help with that, though I doubt that would be much of an issue in a tarp, since I think that's exactly what something DriDucks or Tyvek does (if I understand correctly).

Green stuff is 60" width, gray is 48". Plenty here for a few good projects.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Weights on 10/07/2009 22:32:04 MDT Print View

stupid question: are you just weighing it and dividing by 13? because 13 linear yards isn't the same as 13yd2. I'm sure you know this but just checking.

-Tim

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: How can you tell the coating if it's not labeled? on 10/08/2009 02:53:37 MDT Print View

If the coating is quite shiny it is likely to be acrylic. That is a cheap coating they use just to give the fabric some structure. If the fabric sort of leaked a bit as well, then it is almost guarranteed to be acrylic: it is NOT a waterproof coating.

Cheers

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Re: Weights on 10/08/2009 07:40:21 MDT Print View

>The green stuff weighs in at only 0.77 oz. per sq. yd!

Hmm, interesting. Maybe I will weigh mine again. Its probably the same. If it really is .77oz per SY I would not use it for anything structural. That is extremely light. Even the lightest mosquito mesh is .7 oz per SY.

>The gray is 1.125 oz. per sq. yd.

Yes that does sound like the cloth I bought yesterday.

>I would think a coating of waterproofer might help with that, though I doubt that would be much of an issue in a tarp, since I think that's exactly what something DriDucks or Tyvek does (if I understand correctly).

Even building a tarp is labor intensive. I would pass on the gray nylon for a tarp and just buy some 2nds silnylon. DWR is good stuff, but its not designed to be 100% waterproof. $6 / yd for silnylon.

If you do build a dwr tarp and pitch it with a dip in it and pooling occurs it will leak for sure.

The DWR stuff is best used for quilts, hammocks, clothing etc, as long as it breaths. You pretty much have enough to build a hammock, under and over quilt.

Tyvek gets its water resistance from its structure.
DWR is a water repellent, but more durable than the old types. Durable Water Repellent.

>Green cloth is 60" width, gray is 48". Plenty here for a few good projects.

My green cloth was roughly 66" wide, my gray dwr cloth was 64" wide.

I asked the lady at Walmart where these come from. She was about 100 years old so I figured she might know better than yesterdays burger cook.

She said they were usually the end of a run.

Edited by tammons on 10/08/2009 07:43:08 MDT.

Mark Andersen
(MarkA) - F
Weights on 10/08/2009 08:40:54 MDT Print View

Roger--I'm not sure on the acrylic coating. Water would only go through the fabric when I forced it through with pressure (by squeezing a pouch filled with water), and then it appeared as tiny beads at each place where the ripstop threads crossed, but otherwise rolled off completely without wetting the fabric. But you still think it wouldn't repel water well enough for a tarp/tent?

Tim--I multiplied the width of the roll by the length to find the total sq yds, then divided the total weight by that figure. So yeah, it's the weight per sq. yd.

Troy--I will be interested to see what you find when you re-weigh your green stuff. Given that yours is a different width, too, it may be something completely different. I was wondering if what I had was the same stuff they use for kite fabric, since that's the only 3/4 oz nylon I've seen around. I will try to post some pictures, and maybe you all can help me identify what I have, and what I might use it for.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Re: Weights on 10/08/2009 08:58:25 MDT Print View

The last gray 1.13 oz cloth I bought is not acrylic coated. 99% sure its dwr.

This time I came up with .9 oz per SY for the green ripstop. Must have made a math error before. That is if the total length is correct on the ticket. I have not actually measured the length. If it is longer than what is stated on the ticket it would be lighter.

Probably the same fabric. Does yours wet out ?? Its probably a different run so the weights could be off from one run to another. Either that our one of our scales could be off.

Mine is more of a dark forest green.

Edited by tammons on 10/08/2009 08:59:03 MDT.

Mark Andersen
(MarkA) - F
greens on 10/08/2009 09:30:27 MDT Print View

Troy--what I have is forest green, too, not olive. Colors are not my strong suit...

I haven't measured the length of the green stuff, but watched the lady measure it. There was around a foot or so left on the roll after she got to 8 yards, so she just gave that to me. I haven't measured it to be exact on the length, and I'm sure there was slop in how she measured, but wouldn't make a huge difference in weight, anyway. I'm sure my scale could be off by up to an ounce and a half in the total weight of the roll--10.5 oz.--so it might be closer to 0.9. It seems strong enough to hold up to something used with some care, like a quilt, but I wouldn't go making a backpack out of it. I haven't tried putting water over the green, but I'm sure it will soak the material, since it's clear that it has no coating whatsoever.

I will probably be doing a short backpacking trip on the 16th, so maybe I'll put together a stuff sack from the green stuff (or a rock-throwing bag for a bear bag setup) and see how it holds up to fairly rough use.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Plan on 10/08/2009 10:38:13 MDT Print View

Here are a few links.

I am going to try out an Asym pattern first and see how that goes, 13' long instead of 12', 5' wide before seams double layer. Will use the 1.4oz non coated ripstop for the top layer, the 1.13 DWR ripstop for the bottom layer.

Here is the pattern I am going to use.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=156

I am going to build it similar to Risk's Z hammock. Open sides like his so I can put in a pad.

http://www.imrisk.com/zhammock/zhammock.htm

Going to do either a velcro on bug net or a ENO type slip over bug net out of .7 oz netting from thru hiker.

http://www.hammock-company.com/detail.asp?id=5367&sku=ENO-BUG-NET&mode=ADD&prc=B000

Going to do a Garrison taco wrap for cold weather for more insul. Something I might look into is there is a guy somewhere that is snapping together 2 driducks ponchos and using that as a wrap. I dont see why that would not work since its water proof and breathable. I think you would want to add a head hole and drawstings on the ends. 2 driducks ponchos would weigh 18 oz, but dual purpose.

http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Original.htm

http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm

Link to rings

http://slingrings.com/sunshop/index.php?action=item&id=11&prevaction=category&previd=4&prevstart=0

I have not found a good source for poly strapping yet. Walmart did not have any.

Probably will start off with a campmor 8x10 silnylon tarp.

Once I get the bugs worked out I will eventually buy or make a winter tarp. Probably like the Bearpaw's Speer Winter Tarp setup

http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingDry.html

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
MYOG pad extender on 10/11/2009 14:00:03 MDT Print View

This is a simple one. I wanted one simpler and lighter than the speer version with not so many indiviual pieces of foam to carry. I have about 14 yds of this 1oz ripstop I got from walmart. Its super thin though.

At any rate whipped up this pad extender to use over a neoair.Reason being is in case I get stuck on the ground I can be somewhat comfortable.

The top part is a sewn tube made out of a 49" x 46" piece of nylon, hemmed. The finished length is 48" to match a neoair short.

There is a flat sheet on the bottom that is 20" x 48" finished, sewn to the tube only on the 20" side and down the middle in the short direction to hold the wing pads in place.

I might add some vecro dots to hold the blue pad a bit better. They can be shifted around.

Shown is with a full length neoair.

As shown the entire rigs weighs a total of 23.5 oz
Nylon extender 2.5 oz
Neoair reg 14 oz
(2) 20 x 44" blue pads (12" out ea side) 7 oz

With a small neoair it would weigh 18.5 oz

These blue foam pads are from bass pro shops, 3/8" and fairly dense and weigh roughly 5 oz for a full length pad. With just blue foam, one full length and the 2 cross pieces it would weigh 14.5 oz.

I will probably make a cold version set of wings with a double layer of foam on the outside 12". That would add another 3.5 oz.


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