Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel
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Addie Bedford
(addiebedford) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/29/2009 15:27:37 MDT Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/29/2009 22:30:06 MDT Print View

This reminds me of Bill Gates trying to re-invent the Apple Operating System and calling it "Windows".

Yes, that is a negative comment.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/29/2009 22:56:54 MDT Print View

Well , Steve Jobs and Co "re-invented" the Xerox Alto...
Franco

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 00:30:37 MDT Print View

Sorry Roger no disrespect intended but I share Bill's sentiment over this latest installment of make your own gear.

The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better

Reference: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=2508&disable_pagination=1

Please take a second look at Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles contribution they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of art

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 00:44:24 MDT Print View

> Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles ... they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of art

Oh, I entirely agree. In fact, it was almost certainly their efforts which made me think of making my version. But I wanted something slightly different.

When the handle is simple, as in Bill's elegant design, the whole thing can twist in a sort of spiral manner. And the handle (even when dipped) can be a bit rough to hold if you really have to hack at the ground. Maybe our soil is a bit harder than Bill's - 'hack' (dagger fashion) is the operative word. I wanted a handle which was more 3-D and solid.

In fact, one could say that it is only in the handle region that my design differs. True enough. But having tried both sorts of handles on our soil, I find the solid handle much easier to use in the field.

Cheers

David Booth
(davidbooth) - M

Locale: Australia
Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 04:52:29 MDT Print View

Roger, why waste a few days making your trowel?
Seems like a lot of hard work in the workshop when you could be out hiking.
For years I have used a 9 inch aluminium alloy snow peg that weighs 30 grams and it has a dual use as a tent peg in case I need to pitch my tarp in a sandy place.
I bet the titanium was expensive, not to mention your valuable time to make the trowel.
(fellow) Aussie Dave
Canberra Australia

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 05:24:23 MDT Print View

Borrowing from another poster -

Condolences.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 06:14:55 MDT Print View

I'll stick with my Montbell. Only a half ounce heavier and $8. Readily available. And I have to agree this has been done already, long ago. But thanks for including standard weights and measures.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Cool Idea on 09/30/2009 06:44:09 MDT Print View

Personally I don't care if its been done before, I don't have time to search through thousands of old threads so I'm glad good ideas get published twice.
Actually that sounds like a cool "rainy day" project. Personally I hate trying to dig with my current trowel so this is something I'll have to check out. Thanks for the detailed instructions.
Luke

Keith Selbo
(herman666) - F - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
Thanks for the new MYOG trowel slant on 09/30/2009 06:53:43 MDT Print View

Some of these replies seem to be little more than gratuitous sniping. Take:

"The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better"

Maybe they should say what better is. Prettier? My point being that clearly, no reader has had time to fabricate both trowels and make an in-depth comparison.

Andrew Richardson
(arichardson6) - F

Locale: North East
Re: Thanks for the new MYOG trowel slant on 09/30/2009 07:51:27 MDT Print View

How is this anything like the apple-window's anecdote? Seriously, this is a trowel. Not exactly the kind of design that sees radical change very often. If anything, the trowel that Bill made (in the referenced thread, did he make others?) is much more of a copy/ripoff than this one. It uses thinner titanium and then had some extra engineering for strength. Hardly unique in either regard. I find it ironic that you made the comment that you did Bill. How is your design any less of a "Bill Gates" move?

Roger's trowel, much like Bills, uses some engineering to overcome an issue that Roger saw with the handles of current titanium trowels. His solution, in my opinion, probably works better than what Bill did. I think it would be more comfortable to hold and much less likely to twist or crease. I think using the same physics behind the design of shovels is a neat idea and that it was well implemented. I really don't get how this trowel is more of a copy than what anyone else has done. Is it because he used hose clamps for shaping like Eric did? Eric's trowel in that same thread is a complete rip off of the montbell design so yeah..

If anything, I like the PVC trowel in the referenced thread. I think I might make one of those! Thanks Red!

Edited by arichardson6 on 09/30/2009 07:52:36 MDT.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Thanks for the new MYOG trowel slant on 09/30/2009 09:03:11 MDT Print View

I'm not sure whether I'll make a Ti potty trowel, but I really appreciate the details about working Ti and designing to avoid failure. Good article!

David Wood
(RedYeti) - MLife

Locale: South Eastern UK
Well I liked it... on 09/30/2009 11:01:16 MDT Print View

I agree the handle has got to be an improvement. I used a titanium MSR Blizzard Stake for ages but even wrapped in gaffer tape the handle was awkward in hard soil.

So I now copy another of Roger's ideas - I use a cut-down Coghlans potty trowel since that has a far more comfy handle.

Besides, these MYOG articles are surely as much about inspiration and information on working with the materials as they are purely for slavishly following.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Re: Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 13:12:49 MDT Print View

Hi,

I never claimed to design the Ti trowel I made. I said I tried to buy one of the Montbell Trowels and they were out of stock. I had a scrap piece of Titanium left over from some other project and used the Montbell design and just pounded out one like it for myself.

I guess it was to bad I did not design my trowel. If I had I am sure someone would have taken the design and put them into production.

Bill

Andrew Richardson
(arichardson6) - F

Locale: North East
Re: Re: Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 13:24:09 MDT Print View

Yeah, you definitely made clear why you started your design, I was simply wondering why you think what Roger did deserved the comment you made.

Heh, Bill, you do make good designs! :-)

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Re: Re: Re: Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 15:23:21 MDT Print View

For the time Roger spent I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.

Hey wait, I am paying, but no tent.

Roger has a really great tent design but I think I would need to watch it being made before I would try to do something like it.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Tough Crowd on 09/30/2009 16:21:32 MDT Print View

Tough crowd in this thread.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 16:23:37 MDT Print View

> why waste a few days making your trowel?
Well, that would be a fair comment, but I think is started after lunch and had finished by tea time. I put 4 hours as the time to make, including making up the pipe former. To make another one would take much less than 1 hour.

And it was fun.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 16:25:41 MDT Print View

> I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.

Ah, Bill - that might take a small book, not a short MYOG article! The development work took me years.

Maybe one day.

Cheers

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel on 09/30/2009 17:15:16 MDT Print View

Roger,
I expect I would buy the book or maybe a DVD.