Companion forum thread to:

Make Your Own Gear - A Titanium Potty Trowel

This reminds me of Bill Gates trying to re-invent the Apple Operating System and calling it "Windows".

Yes, that is a negative comment.

Well , Steve Jobs and Co "re-invented" the Xerox Alto...
Franco

Sorry Roger no disrespect intended but I share Bill's sentiment over this latest installment of make your own gear.

The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better

Reference: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=2508&disable_pagination=1

Please take a second look at Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles contribution they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of art

> Bill Fornshell and Eric Nobles ... they elevated the lowly scoop into a piece of art

Oh, I entirely agree. In fact, it was almost certainly their efforts which made me think of making my version. But I wanted something slightly different.

When the handle is simple, as in Bill's elegant design, the whole thing can twist in a sort of spiral manner. And the handle (even when dipped) can be a bit rough to hold if you really have to hack at the ground. Maybe our soil is a bit harder than Bill's - 'hack' (dagger fashion) is the operative word. I wanted a handle which was more 3-D and solid.

In fact, one could say that it is only in the handle region that my design differs. True enough. But having tried both sorts of handles on our soil, I find the solid handle much easier to use in the field.

Cheers

Roger, why waste a few days making your trowel?
Seems like a lot of hard work in the workshop when you could be out hiking.
For years I have used a 9 inch aluminium alloy snow peg that weighs 30 grams and it has a dual use as a tent peg in case I need to pitch my tarp in a sandy place.
I bet the titanium was expensive, not to mention your valuable time to make the trowel.
(fellow) Aussie Dave
Canberra Australia

Borrowing from another poster -

Condolences.

I'll stick with my Montbell. Only a half ounce heavier and $8. Readily available. And I have to agree this has been done already, long ago. But thanks for including standard weights and measures.

Personally I don't care if its been done before, I don't have time to search through thousands of old threads so I'm glad good ideas get published twice.
Actually that sounds like a cool "rainy day" project. Personally I hate trying to dig with my current trowel so this is something I'll have to check out. Thanks for the detailed instructions.
Luke

Some of these replies seem to be little more than gratuitous sniping. Take:

"The MYO Titanium Trowel has been done before and in my opinion done better"

Maybe they should say what better is. Prettier? My point being that clearly, no reader has had time to fabricate both trowels and make an in-depth comparison.

How is this anything like the apple-window's anecdote? Seriously, this is a trowel. Not exactly the kind of design that sees radical change very often. If anything, the trowel that Bill made (in the referenced thread, did he make others?) is much more of a copy/ripoff than this one. It uses thinner titanium and then had some extra engineering for strength. Hardly unique in either regard. I find it ironic that you made the comment that you did Bill. How is your design any less of a "Bill Gates" move?

Roger's trowel, much like Bills, uses some engineering to overcome an issue that Roger saw with the handles of current titanium trowels. His solution, in my opinion, probably works better than what Bill did. I think it would be more comfortable to hold and much less likely to twist or crease. I think using the same physics behind the design of shovels is a neat idea and that it was well implemented. I really don't get how this trowel is more of a copy than what anyone else has done. Is it because he used hose clamps for shaping like Eric did? Eric's trowel in that same thread is a complete rip off of the montbell design so yeah..

If anything, I like the PVC trowel in the referenced thread. I think I might make one of those! Thanks Red!

Edited by arichardson6 on 09/30/2009 07:52:36 MDT.

I'm not sure whether I'll make a Ti potty trowel, but I really appreciate the details about working Ti and designing to avoid failure. Good article!

I agree the handle has got to be an improvement. I used a titanium MSR Blizzard Stake for ages but even wrapped in gaffer tape the handle was awkward in hard soil.

So I now copy another of Roger's ideas - I use a cut-down Coghlans potty trowel since that has a far more comfy handle.

Besides, these MYOG articles are surely as much about inspiration and information on working with the materials as they are purely for slavishly following.

Hi,

I never claimed to design the Ti trowel I made. I said I tried to buy one of the Montbell Trowels and they were out of stock. I had a scrap piece of Titanium left over from some other project and used the Montbell design and just pounded out one like it for myself.

I guess it was to bad I did not design my trowel. If I had I am sure someone would have taken the design and put them into production.

Bill

Yeah, you definitely made clear why you started your design, I was simply wondering why you think what Roger did deserved the comment you made.

Heh, Bill, you do make good designs! :-)

For the time Roger spent I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.

Hey wait, I am paying, but no tent.

Roger has a really great tent design but I think I would need to watch it being made before I would try to do something like it.

Tough crowd in this thread.

> why waste a few days making your trowel?
Well, that would be a fair comment, but I think is started after lunch and had finished by tea time. I put 4 hours as the time to make, including making up the pipe former. To make another one would take much less than 1 hour.

And it was fun.

Cheers

> I would pay to watch / read about how he makes one of his tents.

Ah, Bill - that might take a small book, not a short MYOG article! The development work took me years.

Maybe one day.

Cheers

Roger,
I expect I would buy the book or maybe a DVD.

I don't understand the negativity in the comments here either. But it seems to be smoothing over now.

For the record, Roger's articles were the main reason I decided to renew my membership to BPL. They're always informative and they bypass so much of the mindless consumerism that underlies a lot of this site.

Given the above (and the fact that I can't find a reasonably light 4 season tent that is long enough to fit me), I think it's high time you (Roger) spill the beans on how to make a Caffin tent. ;)

I'm glad to know that I pay money to be a member of a group that's populated by Children.

He made a FREAKIN shovel! Lighten up people!

If you made a different shovel, and did not like his, then take it and go home.

Nice work Roger! Please keep up the great creative inspirations for others to ponder on, and use to create their own designs.

Roger's tents...
In case you have not been paying attention, the "problem" with Roger's tents is that they are not easy (economically viable...) to manufacture, however they could be a great DIY if you have the time and the skills . I have plenty of time and no skills neither the patience to learn.
But here are enough pictures, drawings and comments to get you started.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCSummer.htm
Maybe Roger will accept donations for his efforts....

BTW, there is a winter tent link there too as well as many other DIY projects in the other pages.
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/DIY_RNCDesigns.htm

Or start here
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Index.htm
Franco

I appreciate your instructions with clamps and vice grips and painting the item.

I probably will never make my own trowel. I just found a sea and ski collapsible trowel that weighs barely nothing and digs a hole fast. I was amazed. I'd like to see a review of it in backpacking light. It's really a working tool. It doesn't hurt my hands and the handle folds back into the blade. It's about four inches folded and maybe 2.5 inches across. At the bottom of the handle is a latch. Inside the handle, opening the latch storage is available for tissue and a lighter to burn trash. Cool.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket all the time, but one of those orange plastic trowels they've been selling for over 20 years (mine are 25 y.o.) only weighs in at under 65g.

> Tough crowd in this thread

Sure was - I hear Roger's next MYOG article will be how to install one of those chicken-wire screens in front of your machine to stop the incoming beer bottles... ;)

It better be titanium chicken wire.

Thru-hiker does not have titanium any more. What is a source for small quantities of sheet Ti?

As another poster said - get a Montbell Ti trowel. Only .45 oz. heavier and a much cleaner design.

I've been getting titanium rod/sheet from sellers on ebay..

I have an old, very sturdy semi-circular aluminum stake (left over from some long-since-discarded junky tent) which works just fine as a potty trowel. Weighs the same as the Ti trowel here and is also an extra tent stake just in case (needed it on my last trip when I lost a stake, even though the latter was painted blaze orange). It's just the right size that I can roll up my stove windscreen (inside a plastic bag, of course) inside the curve of the stake for the windscreen's protection.

I don't have the tools or the skill to make this trowel and am quite satisfied with my old tent stake!

The standard plastic trowel, IMHO, is useless as well as heavy. During the Northwest's dry season (yes, we do have one!) it won't even scratch the surface of the ground, much less dig a hole.

Edited by hikinggranny on 10/01/2009 15:12:23 MDT.

Never did like Hummers

interesting design for the handle - makes sense when you see a shovel next to it

also picked up a few tips working w/ titanium (the stuff is tough to work w/ for anyone who hasn't tried)- thank you

I'd guess Roger's trowel could also double for a stake, my pvc one did the trick for me when I inadvertently left one stake at home

I like that there are ideas being shared to MYOG. Will I run out and replace my MontBell trowel with a sheet of titanium and a hammer to build my own? Probably not right away, but it is nice for people who don't think through engineering to see how to build something that should hold up. Thanks for sharing Roger (and Bill and others who have MYOG)

Now, what's up with the TP? between that and the huge fires in recent trip reports, I'm starting to wonder if anyone on BPL has heard of the LNT priciples (I'll assume Roger packs out his TP though!)

> if anyone on BPL has heard of the LNT priciples (I'll assume Roger packs out his TP though!)

A risky assumption!
The whole point of the trowel is to be able to dig a hole to bury one's doings. So the TP goes in the hole as well.

However, I would defy you to be able to see where we have dug a hole when we have finished. The hole gets filled, flattened and the mulch (leaves etc) or whatever gets replaced.

The only way you would know where I have been is the crossed sticks over the filled hole. But sticks get overlaid in the bush anyhow. So we make them into a rather obvious small cross.

Cheers

>As another poster said - get a Montbell Ti trowel. Only .45 oz. heavier and a much cleaner design.

.45 oz may not break one's back, but from a engineering perspective, that makes the Montbell 50% heavier than the MYO. Besides, MYOG is only partially about saving weight and money; it's also about the pride of designing and crafting your own gear.

Just a quick comment. It occurred to me that someone might follow the suggestion to do a dry run with a piece of galvanized steel, and practice with the gas torch at the same time.

That would be bad.

Heating galvanized steel or some other coated metals releases poisonous vapors that can cause a potentially fatal illness known as "metal fume fever."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever

I think it might be a good idea to add a warning to the article itself for the benefit of those who might not read the comments.

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The montbell Handy scoop is made of Stainless steel. Not titanium.

For being such a great community I'm a bit surprised to see the negative comments. Regardless if it's been done before I find it fun to tinker around and design my own gear. I just got some Ti in the other day and have been playing with it, really tricky stuff.

If anyone has tips/pointers and such regarding the hot forming of 6AI-4v feel free to PM me.

Thanks for the write-up Roger.