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Wood Stoves and Knives
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Jolly Green Giant
(regultr) - MLife

Locale: www.jolly-green-giant.blogspot.com
Re: Sog Field Pup on 09/24/2009 06:09:28 MDT Print View

The Sog Field Pup is a great knife which has remained quietly sitting on a shelf since I bought it as I've honestly never needed to bring it. In the winter, the Mora's do okay with wood and at all oher times a little Swiss Army Classic does the job. If I were in a "survival" situation, then I'd definitely want something heartier like the pup, but fortunately I've never been in that position.

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Mora and 0 degree bevel on 09/24/2009 06:37:37 MDT Print View

>>You need a knife with a Scandinavian grind a.k.a flat grind. Good for wood carving and easy to hand sharpen.

Agreed, but do take note that a lot of Moras have a secondary bevel. In other words, they arent traditional Scandi grinds. You can take the secondary bevel off with a good set of stones though, then you'll have a true flat grind that is easier to maintain while out hiking.

Keith Selbo
(herman666) - F - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
Re: Knife on 09/24/2009 06:40:45 MDT Print View

"There may be times when you may have to get to the heart of a 3" piece of wood before you find what you need."

This may be true if you pull your wood out of a lake or stream but it is simply not the case for the forest floor. Find a fallen branch, break off a piece that's about as big around as your little finger, and not in direct contact with the ground. I don't care how long it's been raining, you'll find dry enough wood not too far under the bark.

Edited by herman666 on 09/24/2009 06:43:49 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Soggy floors on 09/24/2009 08:32:37 MDT Print View

"This may be true if you pull your wood out of a lake or stream but it is simply not the case for the forest floor."

I'm guessing you haven't been in the Pacific Northwest in winter. Starting a fire in the coastal mountains there during winter, after several months of rain, is a bit more of a challenge than you think! "Soggy" doesn't begin to describe it!

Living in Oregon is what first convinced me to always carry a non-wood stove!

Edited by grampa on 09/24/2009 08:33:13 MDT.

Jeremy Gustafson
(gustafsj) - MLife

Locale: Minneapolis
re: mora on 09/24/2009 09:24:55 MDT Print View

Wow! Lot's of opinions on this!! In addition to using a wood stove, I definitely like to have my fires in the fire pits provided in the areas that I like to hike in... so this has been helpful.

I definitely like the fixed blade option although realistically I could get by with less. I like the price tag on them and after watching the youtube video, more than adequate for durability.

So, the next question is which one? To get a Mora knife is like saying, "go get a gm vehicle". I looked at the ragnar site and there are too many to choose from. I do have pretty big hands (long anyway), so I would tend to lean toward the larger handle series like the Modern Mora #711 or Craftsmen 740. I like the idea of the triflex Craftsmen 780 as well, seems like a pretty sturdy blade. The handles on the Craftsmen don't seem to be as sturdy and not as good of grip as the Modern Mora, but they do weigh less. I think if the Craftsmen 740 was not an orange handle, I would jump all over it.

Little help from you Mora users??

Thanks for all your input!!

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Mora on 09/24/2009 09:53:40 MDT Print View

I have big hands (can palm a basketball etc.) and I get on fine with the Mora Clipper. To my mind, that grip is the best of the Mora's. The wood grips are too slipery.

Clipper all the way...

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Wood Stoves and Knives on 09/24/2009 10:10:42 MDT Print View

My favorite knife for this is the Grohmann Boat Knife. 4" fixed blade, 3.5oz knife, 1.5oz leather sheath. Very sturdy, does well with batoning, yet fine enough to thinly slice onions, cheese, etc. Grip is very secure. Carved a "nice" little wooden spoon with the knife last trip.

As to Mora, it seems like you're probably on the right track, a Craftsman or Clipper...

. .
(biointegra) - MLife

Locale: Puget Sound
Re: razor blades on 09/24/2009 11:07:13 MDT Print View

@John - do you have a picture of your handled razor setup?

Tohru Ohnuki
(erdferkel) - F

Locale: S. California
Re: re: mora on 09/24/2009 11:43:38 MDT Print View

I have both the KJ Eriksson 711 style and the Frosts 740 style and both handles are reasonably sized and comfortable. The Eriksson has some grippy rubber which feels great but it doesn't have a lanyard hole like the Frosts. Haven't tried the clipper style or the craftline.

Ragnar's a good place to get them, large selection and quick service. And since they're cheap, you can get an assortment.

You can't go wrong with these knives, they're well tested working designs that are not catering to the Rambo SpecOps Tactical market which tends to favor 'aggressive' yet poorly functional blade/handle shapes...

S P
(HighAltitude) - F
Re: re: mora on 09/24/2009 11:54:22 MDT Print View

Jeremy

Get the 711 or 746 series.

The handle is larger in circumference/length and the blade has a longer tang compared to most mora knives.

The only difference is the type of blade metal and color.

731/748/749 have longer blades.

I personally use a 711 because I like a carbon steel blade. The carbon blade is easier to maintain in the field but does require a little more maintenance. The blade length is perfect for most basic bushcraft needs.

I have several different models of mora knives (clippers, wooden handle, the basic orange plastic handle models etc...)and the 711 is my go to blade if I choose to take one.mora xray

Justin Chaussee
(judach) - F

Locale: Earth
wood stoves and knives on 09/24/2009 12:11:01 MDT Print View

I don't know... I don't even include my knife when calculating my total weight. My knife is the most essential piece of equipment I own. Personally, I want a very sturdy knife. I've carried everything from Ka-Bars to mora classics. The mora is a good blade. Very sharp and easy to sharpen yourself. I have no problem using it for general backpacking applications. I wouldn't want to rely on it though for serious bushcraft. I don't put a ton of faith in the stick tang for my applications.

This is such a debatable topic it really depends on the individual. A majority of people on this site wouldn't be caught dead with something as heavy as a ka-bar or fallknieven! But that is their comfort level, just like my personal comfort level dictates carrying a heavier knife. I don't want to be buying a new knife all the time. I'd rather spend a bit of money and buy a knife that will last a lifetime and I can probably pass on to my son. Then again, I'm kind of a knife geek, so while it's important to me, others on especially this site will probably scoff at me for carrying something so heavy... ;-)

Like multiple people have said on this post before me, the Mora knife is probably your best bet.

P ritch
(Flix) - F

Locale: Seattle area
Impressive restraint on 09/24/2009 15:41:59 MDT Print View

I've gotta say that I'm impressed by the restraint shown by those who find carrying a knife is unnecessary/etc as well as the even tone of disagreeing posts. Refreshing.

(This isn't necessarily about BPL)

Justin Chaussee
(judach) - F

Locale: Earth
Re: Impressive restraint on 09/24/2009 16:19:38 MDT Print View

It's because we all live in a yellow submarine, baby!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
WM1 on 09/24/2009 18:17:23 MDT Print View

the WM1 certainly looks like awful lot of knife for 2.5 oz- I wish I hadn't seen it :)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
two more worth looking at on 09/27/2009 09:14:06 MDT Print View

here are a couple of more that might be worth looking into- both right at 2.0 oz

RAT Izula- 2 oz- evidently pretty tough (pic of it in action)

Photobucket

Photobucket

Buck Kaala 1.9 oz

Photobucket

John Tunnicliffe
(BenWaller)

Locale: Northern California
Fixed blade druthers on 09/27/2009 18:06:16 MDT Print View

I've been carrying a SOG Seal Pup for a couple of years and have found it to be adequate.

However, I am currently re-grinding a Ka-Bar Marine into a much shorter knife, mainly because I've always wanted to do it and also because I think the steel is just about perfect for hard, repetitive use. It's 1095 steel, not some hard-ass nitemare alloy and it sharpens easier/better than any other (cheap) steel I've ever used. No, it's not stainless, thank God.

So far I have clipped the point, dropped it significantly actually, and thereby reduced the blade length to just over 5" and I have ground away the shoulders (this is the area where the bolster meets the blade, where the words "Ka-Bar" and "USMC" used to be). When the general geometry is to my liking I will reshape the edge/sides, shorten the tang and mount the blade in a cocabolo handle, using Gorilla glue of course. The bolster will be brass because I like brass.

And the best part is that nobody will know what the hell it is, except me, and I'll just tell folks who ask that I picked it up at a garage sale.

Oh, yeah, I forget. I don't care how heavy it might end up being. As regards a knife, weight is one pretty silly concern IMHO. It's like worrying about the boil time of a stove.

Practicaly idiotic. HYOH.

John

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Cutting down trees with a Mora on 09/28/2009 09:02:22 MDT Print View

It can be done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ZZj-5A9u0

Not a full tang, but tough noe the less.

Michael Meiser
(mmeiser) - F

Locale: Michigan
1.98 knife / 1.2oz saw solution on 01/30/2010 08:12:29 MST Print View

So,

I realized I never followed up here.

I've settled on some pretty good UL solutions for processing wood for my wood gas stove for winter camping.

1.89 oz knife
1.89oz knife

1.2oz bow saw blade
improvising a bow saw


== purpose built ==

The primary reason for these tools is processing wood for my wood stove for winter hiking / bike touring and camping.

They are admittedly not necessities as my wood gas stove can burn smaller sticks and twigs for cooking.

However since I also use the stove for warmth and light I felt I can justify the extra 3.09 ounces.

I will not be using these tools every night, just when I have the time / energy or need dictates

They will certainly come in handy when wood is wet.

In short... This is 3.09 ounces dedicated to fun and better enjoyment of the winter camping experience.


== the knife ==

The shape of the blade is inspired by the Leuku knife, also sometimes called a Sami knife. It is however much smaller then these knives which were usually made from truck leaf springs.

Unlike the blades that inspired it this blade is much to light for chopping action and so primarily will be used with a baton.

The curve of the blade is specifically designed to put the fulcrum as far out toward the tip as possible so when hitting the tip with a baton the energy transfers directly into the wood and not back into the handle.

If the fulcrum were near the handle then when you hit the knife tip with a baton it would transfer energy back up into the handle. This is how hilts get broken.


== materials ==

The knife is made from an unconventional source. A scrapper / putty knife.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4235900656/

I used this material for it's durability as the primary use of the knife is splitting wood with a baton.

I'm completely confident it won't break, worst case scenario is it will bend. So far it has been more then sufficiently Strong enough to take the abuse of batoning.

In sharpening it I did get it very sharp. Sharp enough to slice through a sheet of paper anyway, but I'm not sure how long it will hold this edge given it's stainless steel and not tempered/ hardened like a normal knife.

Fine sharpness is however really secondary and unnecessary to the knifes splitting power.

That said it can be used making feather sticks and food preparation which it seems to have no problem with.

Will see how it keeps its edge over the long term.



== two specialty knives vs. one all purpose ==

So... The idea behind this knife is that it's lighter to carry two specialty knives then one all in one wonder.

In fact I question weather any knife can handle the range of activities from cutting wood to doing more detailed work like food prep, whittling, etc.

Right now I'm also carrying a Micro-leatherman which I've always carried.

I do question weather I'll even need it with this new knife. The only other thing I really use on the leatherman is the scissors and I could potentially put some ultralight folding scissors in my emergency kit with my sewing thread.


== bow saw blade ==

First of all the blade does only weigh about 1.2oz with the two key chain rings I use for quickly improvising a bow.

Secondly it requires actually only two cuts and a couple minutes to improvise a good bow for the blade. This is an excellent example of how skill and experience trump gadgets. No Sven saw or Wyoming saw is necessary.

Some might call this a bush craft approach. Indeed I once saw a video of Ray Mears carrying a bow saw blade in his "billy can".

What's more the bow itself only weighs about 7-8 ounces so it's really not a big deal if I do decide simply break down the saw and carry the bow with me as well.

I don't suspect that this is the sort of tool I'll be using every night, but since the blade is only 1.2oz and the gives me the flexibility to take or carry the bow I needn't fret over the issue. It'll work itself out over time.


== sheath ==

No sheathes yet.

Recently I've just been wrapping them in some plastic which works fine, but isn't sexy. The bow saw blade can also roll up in a larger bottom pot (i.e 5" diameter) but I do have a nice place to store it unrolled.

Am thinking about using automotive plastic to make the knife sheath instead of leather as it's lighter / thinner / tougher.

Will post again when I've created the sheathes

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: 1.98 knife / 1.2oz saw solution on 01/30/2010 14:42:12 MST Print View

Great job!
Some sugestions:
Im guessing an ideal steel for batoning would be something like the Mora Triflex, which is soft on the spine where you would strike it but hard in the cutting edge.

I remember someone telling me about people carrying saw blades on their belt, but I dont know how it was done.

also, if the primary function of the blade is splitting you may remove the point altogether and it will be easier to sharpen because the blade will be straight with no curve to follow. Although I find the idea of making a dedicated splitting tool interesting a traditional blade is still more versatile and useful.

Michael Meiser
(mmeiser) - F

Locale: Michigan
Re: Re: 1.98 knife / 1.2oz saw solution on 01/30/2010 17:07:32 MST Print View

@Brian Maynard (MAYNARD76)

Thanks for the support.

Re Mora Triflex: I assume the Triflex is a technology and not a knife? Tried googling it.. to much junk info could not find an actual specific model.

Re Sawblades on belt: yeah, I've seen this too. I think they had a two layer leather belt and just seperated a stictch. However I don't wear a heavy leather belt when out and about. I use a nylon web belt if anything.

Since I'm using this for bike touring it fits superbly in my frame bag so I don't even need to thnk about it.

The easiest way to do this with a backpack would be to sew a little sleeve on your hip belt. Then again it might fit vertically in your pack or in your pot easier.

There are smaller blades which would probably pack better for most. i.E. the wyoming saw blades come down to 12". THey're also directional so there's less tension on the push stroke. The thing is it's actually easier to craft a bow for a longer blade. Less arc/ radius. Lessening the arc also makes it stronger. Not to mention the cutting advantages of just having a longer saw.

I also tried the folding saws btw. Fiskars (4.1oz), Campmor pocket sierra (1.7oz). They work, just wasn't extremely enthused by their cutting power, weight or pack size.

Re Sharpening: I really have no issue sharpening this blade. Not a big problem on the block... perhaps an issue when on the trail though.

Wanted a bit of a tip to make it possibly more useful for other tasks like food prep. Didn't see any advantage to the Chisel end either. You're not ever really useing the last 1"-2" of the blade when splitting, just the backside for batoning on. So making it square is just extra weight.

Maybe this means the tip will stay sharper longer then the middle of the blade making it more useful for other tasks.


== improvising a splitting knife ==

Case in point the first one of these I made (indeed where I got the idea from) I was actually out and about and broke my knife.

I stopped in a small town hardware store, bought a decent weight putty knife and they let me use their sythe sharpener to put an edge on it. Took only a few seconds to make, worked superbly and fairly light. Points for improvisation and simplicity, but no points for style:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4209243722/