If you go with Todd, Dan and David here ya go. If it fits.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=24124&skip_to_post=196491#196491

only $75 unused. Thats a steal.

I don't like high loft synthetic insulation while active (down is even worse). It doesn't breathe well, the face fabric feels clammy, it holds a lot of humidity inside and the insulation suffers under pack weight. Fleece is rugged, breathes well, feels comfortable even when damp. It's so much better while active and particularly so in the winter when moisture build up from inside is your enemy and you need a clothing system that promotes wicking and transfer and doesn't hold humidity. Fleece is heavier and bulkier but that doesn't matter while you're wearing it. It does matter while it's in your pack though.

Fleece + windshirt is a very versatile combo. Apart from the obvious use in winter, I'm now back to fleece in 3 season, a thin pullover at just 187 gr. (similar to a full-featured base layer), it's not even heavy. It's just a bit bulky in the pack but it teams up perfectly with the other layers for a super versatile active wear set.

What you really mean is "Perfect PILE". Fleece is, in reality, very short napped fabric whereas pile looks like sheeps wool before shearing.

Patagonia makes a "Retro" pile jacket that's breathable and somewhat wind resistant.

To me Perfect" pile is:

1. made with HOLLOW fibers to trap more "boundary air" (that one or two molecule layer that does not move due to electrostatic adhesion)

2. 200 or 300 weight or a thick "Berber"-style pile

3. breathes well B/C it has no "windproof layer" (unless I need to constantly wear it as an outer layer)

4. has a high, zip-over-chin double layer collar

Look in L.L. Bean or Cabela's online

Eric

Thanks everyone - this is great input.

I like the Montbell jacket Ryan Teale posted the link to. I know it is not "Fleece" but it looks like it may have the features that I am looking for. So more things to consider, I guess I should have posted the title as Perfect Jacket???.

I have actually been interested in Melazana for a while now. I was aware of the Micro-grid, but I had no idea they had a wind pro hoodie. That looks very interesting, so does the hard face hoodie.

So many things to consider - at least I know there are options out there.

I think going with a windshirt combo is out for me, just not what I am looking for right now, but I think I may look into that down the road.

Thanks again, I may pull the trigger this weekend and I'll be sure to post what I did.

Mike

Marmot have a few nice looking lightweight fleeces which I've had my eye on previously. You can see them on the Marmot website, both full and half-zip versions.

"I don't like high loft synthetic insulation while active (down is even worse). It doesn't breathe well, the face fabric feels clammy, it holds a lot of humidity inside and the insulation suffers under pack weight."

While this may be generally true, I'm not sure you should lump all synthetic insulation into the same boat like this. I think there is some synthetic insulation that doesn't hold any moisture (ie. Primaloft Sport i think). Breathability and the feel of the face fabrics also vary a lot.

Edited by dandydan on 09/19/2009 11:13:46 MDT.

no insulation that relies on lofting has the structural integrity of fleece. It collapses under weight and can't breathe. A high loft insulation sandwiched between a pack and a perspiring body will become a damp mess. Fleece fares better.

I'm with Inaki on this one. This year, I brought a simple Polartec 100 pullover on several trips when I suspected that I might need it while hiking as opposed to just using it for hanging out at camp and sleeping. It performed great, much better than either of my high loft synthetic tops would have. Of course, it's not as warm for the weight, so that has to be taken into consideration when planning your sleeping system.

Another vote for the lightweight hoody plus hooded windshirt. This could be any of the following: Patagonia R1 Hoody/Beartooth Merio/UL Merino Hoody + Patagonia Houdini/GoLite Ether/Montane [hooded windshirt]

My personal system in winter is R1 hoody + Ether + [softshell/hardshell] + [puffy jacket]. In fringe seasons, I am experimenting with Capilene 1 + R1 Hoody + Ether + [insulated parka] + [hardshell].

If you want a one-piece garment, check out the Vapor Rise garments from Rab. I have no experience with them, but others on this forum do and like them as softshells.

Whatever you do, get a hood on at least your outer garment. I vehemently defend hoods on all layers designed to be your outermost layer at any time. The exception to this is garments meant as a true mid layer, like the Montbell Ex-lite or Inner down jacket or a 200-weight Polartec fleece jacket. Stay away from anything with a membrane.

Finally, if you go with fleece, Polartec stuff by Malden Mills is the best. Don't bother with anything else. I agree with those above who have said that fleece is king when your hardshell (or windshirt!) wets out. I want to add that you should only be wearing a fleece underneath a hardshell in cold and wet or cold and snowing conditions.

Matt,
With all due respect, but after reading your recommendations for winter layering system (and glancing at your avatar), I'd suggest leaving the fleece at home and packing some pants. ;)
Tom

For me the "perfect" combo of warmth, wind resistance and versatility is a 300 wt. Polartec pile jacket with an eVent parka and a 200 wt. Polartec vest. This combo should get you through some very severe weather when worn all together. When worn as various combinations it would be an extremely versatile system.

For a lighter weight system and a bit less versatility/warmth the 200wt.vest could be omitted and the 300 wt. Polartec jacket could be modded with zip-off sleeves.

Either system would be a good spring/fall system for the Applachian Trail, or any locale where weather can be very unpredictable.

Eric

Edited by Danepacker on 09/25/2009 19:32:28 MDT.

That was on my SHT thru-hike in May 2008. Temps varied from ~32 to high 70s. I did bring pants (zip-off) and poly-pro tights, but used neither.

Cotton boxers = not UL, but so comfortable.

I would second the use of anything Wind Pro. Cuts down wind to a great degree and still breathes. I use Wind Pro gloves and a balaclava to keep myself warm. Light, dries fast, weighs little, and durable.

Well - I came across the Mammut Ultimate Hoody, it isn't fleece but it had everything that I was looking for. Although it is a Windstopper product, I know there are a lot of negatives about that, I decided to give it a try due to the really great core venting it offers. It was on sale and I can always take it back if I don't like it.

I have been wearing it around town and will try it out this weekend. The only thing that I would change would be the hand pockets - I wish they were a little higher for a hip belt, but it will do.

I'm also going to order one of the Melanzana hoodies, just because I have been looking at those for a while.

Thanks for all of the input.

Mike

Edited by mlebwill on 09/25/2009 15:10:09 MDT.