Hi all,
I just got an email from Jon Holweger at Cubic Tech saying he will do a production run of browny-green cuben when there is a big enough total of orders.

Update: Production starts Monday 28th Sept !!!

Price currently is $23.46 per running meter, $211.14 per 9 meter panel. This is for CT2K.08, a 0.74oz/square yd, 54" wide material. See Franco's post on page 2 for color. It's the "breen" or browney green drab olivey sort of grungy color at the bottom of the shot

If you are in the states, and want 9 meters or a multiple of 9m, order direct by email from jon@cubictechnology.com for direct delivery. Please leave a message on thread so I know what's left.

People wanting small amounts could help the process by PMing each other and forming small syndicates, bearing in mind country of destination. Please indicate non U.S. locations. Mike Crosby and Jim Colten(provisionally) have offered to act as distributors.

The LIST:

7.3m, 0.74 oz. Rog tallbloke UK.........ordered
4 yds, 0.74 oz. Vick Hines
18m, 0.74 oz. Mike Crosby................ordered
4 yds, 0.74 oz. Petras Surna AUS
2 yds, 0.74 oz. Dan Baker AUS
3 yds, 0.74 oz. Michael Theiler Aus
3.7m, 0.74 oz. Matthew Dunn UK..........ordered
18m, 0.74 oz Tim Marshall..............ordered
6-9yrds0.74 oz Jim Colten
45 yrds0.74 oz David Olsen................ordered
7m, 0.74 oz Lynne UK...................ordered
9m, 0.74 oz Justin Ling
18m, 0.74 oz Henry Blake................ordered
9m, 0.74 oz Brad Rogers................ordered

Running total: ~162-165 Yards.
Ordered: 127m
Estimated remaining available - 27-36m as of 10-1-2009

Possibles:

Jared Cook - 6-9 yds

Edited by tallbloke on 10/02/2009 10:06:51 MDT.

4 yds, 0.51 oz. Vick Hines

8 yds, 0.51 oz. Mike Crosby

Rog,
The specs call for a 127 cm width in either of those 2 weights. Any chance of getting Cubic Tech Corp. to make a wider material run? I'm assuming that people on this site would appreciate the extra width for tarps and bivies? Everyone interested in getting some, chime in on this point—desirable or not?

Hi Henry. The spec sheet Jon attached to the email he sent me states 54" for both weights. I'll double check with him before we order.

Rog,

As you get orders can you post the tally so i have an idea of how much time i have to get on board. I'd like some, but can't commit at this time. Once you start getting close i might be able to get a large amount to close the deal for everyone. MIGHT. oh the heavier stuff for me too. Is this what everyone is calling .6? MLD, ZPACK and so on?

Looks like you did, sorry.

What type of green? Like an OD green, or a bright lime, something in the middle? I know the color won't be true as the material is translucent, but i'm interested to know.

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 09/15/2009 09:06:31 MDT.

What color is the green? How soon are you planning to order? I'd be interested if you are getting the equivalent to the .6oz weight that people are using for shelters. I know that sail yardage weight is different than the actual weight per square yd.
I can't commit until early next month when I get paid though. I need to buy 6 to 9 yds for my winter projects.

No worries guys, this can wait until everyone is ready. The bigger the order the better, so no exclusion when the min 99 yards is reached. If you let me know quantities in advance of being ready to order, I can let Jon know.

Can't tell much about the colour from the website. Kay at Quest Outfitters has a test swatch, ask her. She said to me it was as see through as the white so they aren't getting any. I think it'll help reduce visibility from a distance though, and maybe less attractive to bugs too.

Here's the image from the website:

Edited by tallbloke on 09/15/2009 13:19:12 MDT.

4 yds, 0.51 oz. Petras Surna (Australia)

Edited by PedroArvy on 09/17/2009 06:59:08 MDT.

Hi Rob,

i would take 20 yds of the >CT1K.08< cuben style.

Best regards
LB

And here is an older picture of the colored cuben fiber



(This picture is maybe 9 months old)
All the best

Edited by LAUFBURSCHE-DE on 09/17/2009 08:44:16 MDT.

OP updated. If we include Jared's six-ine yards, we are just around half way to having enough orders to commission the production of this material.

Who else wants some fully waterproof very strong green material at 0.51oz/yd ?

Could be just what I need for a bivy-tent project that's been on the back burner for a few years.

I'll look at the potential fabric lay-up and see how much I need. And how much it would cost at $22-ish/yd...

Go on Kevin, you owe it to yourself, you know you do. ;-)

I'm a bit confused....so does one 'unit' get the buyer a piece of cuben that is 54" wide and one yard (36") in length? Or does it get you one square yard of cuben, which would be 54" x 24"?

I'd like to get some cuben to make some stuff sacks, but I'd probably only need a yard or two.

Edited by dandydan on 09/18/2009 16:10:24 MDT.

Dan, One 'unit' is one yard of material length, 54" wide, so you get quite a lot more than a square yard. Calculate out your design requirements and get an order in!

Hi,

This is actually my first post here even I visit the site almost daily. I've been on the hunt for colored cuben for some time now. My only problem is not knowing how much to order! My math is beyond terrible and I have no clue how much I will need to create a pyramid tent that would accomodate four friendly people and enough pitch to work as well as the mids that Ryan Jordan and team used in the arctic. Can someone help me come up with a number so that I jump in on a great opportunity? Any help would be appreciated.

Tenkara/Paul

Paul
Have a look at this thread
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=22371
(Keep in mind that I still think the guyout point should be a flat line where glued or stitched, not curved, feel free to experiment first...)
Franco

Paul, cuben is a pricey material to start experimenting with. I suggest you find some cheap nylon off ebay or Quest outfitters seconds or old bedding to build a mockup of your ideas before you go cutting expensive material. But get on with it, we will probably order this material early next month.

You could also consider commissioning one of the small producers to make your shelter once you are sure you have the dimensions right from your mockup. Franco's technique using pegs and string would work well for a pyramid as a cheaper alternative to a sewn mockup. You could just tape cheap thin polythene to the stretched string to give a better idea with several people sat inside.

Jon has just emailed me again with a choice of two greens.

" I attached a photo of CT5 Green and CT5HB OD Green on a white background for you to visualize the difference. Obviously CT5 is a heavier product than CT1K.08, which you are interested in, so the colors will be more transparent in the lighter material."



Votes please: Light green or darker green?

I prefer the darker one

Edited by LAUFBURSCHE-DE on 09/19/2009 08:02:16 MDT.

Maybe the darker one is similar to the „breen” i've posted
yesterday.

Edited by LAUFBURSCHE-DE on 09/19/2009 05:11:13 MDT.

Is this closer to the real colour ?

I prefer the darker one also
Mike

I think the breen or green colored cuben in the lighter version has got only a shimmer of the color.

This is the result of the thinner Polyester coating.
The breen in my picture have a weight of 23,6g/m²

The green Cuben styles shown on Jons picture
are much heavier.

Maybe Jon can send you a picture of some colored
CT1K.08. Then we can see how transparent or not
the cuben is.

gx
Laufbursche

Edited by LAUFBURSCHE-DE on 09/19/2009 06:44:28 MDT.

Thanks for all of the information. It will definitely help me determine how much I need. At the very least, I can go ahead and order the cuben knowing that i will use it for the final product.

My vote is for the darker green. I prefer to not stand out from my surroundings and I spend most of my time in the Smoky's

You can put me down for 2 yards. I don't care about the color (since it's for stuff sacks).

The list at the top of the thread has been updated. Looking good for an order early October.

Hi all,

I will chime in for 2 yards, mine can get sent with pedro's to Australia, we can organize mine to come from him (mind you I will have to PM him :) ) I would prefer breen .51 also.

Cheers,

Dan Baker.

So, just so I get this right, as I'm using the metric system:

1 yard = 91,44 cm (length)
54 inch = 137,16 cm (wide)

Right? How much would I need to sew myself a nice tarp/ shelter and some stuff sacks, would three to four yards be enough? I'm thinking something like a Patrol Shelter or Grace Solo.

Also, I first could give an OK on Friday evening, depends on how the meeting with the client goes.

Edited by skullmonkey on 09/21/2009 03:20:17 MDT.

You're a bad man Rog! There's no way I can afford this! In which case I'll have 4 yards please... I live in the UK, hope this isn't a problem although if other UK people would like to jump on this I can post yours on for free just don't tell my boss! : O )
Thanks for sorting this Rog, much appreciated!
Matt
Edit: Maybe I should tell you which one I'd vote for? My vote goes for the heavier fabric and the breen please

Edited by Boddunn on 09/21/2009 07:55:47 MDT.

I would like to be included in the order but do not yet know how much I need, a few yards certainly. I will figure out my measurements and post again,
Damon

I prefer the red but I guess that's not on offer.
So 1 vote for the light green.

Hi Hendrick,
Just my two penneth worth, I'll be making a tarp too so I've ordered 4 yards which would mean I'll have the join running across the ridge line rather than along it which isn't ideal but it's the best I can do as I don't have much money. This will give me a tarp of roughly 2.8 x 1.8 meters.
A better solution would be to buy 6 yards and make a tarp with the join along the ridge line making a generous sized 2.80 x 2.80 meters.
Hope this helps,
Matt

OK, we seem to have a consensus for the 0.51 oz darker green/browny breen, sorry Pedro.

Dan, my cunning plan is that we all deal direct with Cubic Tech directly once we have a big enough combined order. That way, I don't have loads of admin work to do with addresses etc, and Jon at Cubic Tech does all the financials too. However you want to arrange shipping etc is up to you.

Hendrick, get your calculator out. I'm sure you'll have no trouble selling any extra you have over-ordered on gear swap.

Matt, nice one, We can combine shipping costs. Jon has said he is fine with using standard USPS $13 boxes, we'll see how much he can cram into one.

Damon, no sweat, we'll hang on for you.

I'll update the list when I have some more definite quantities from people.

Rog,

are you sure Jon is willing to cut and shipp all this to different locations? They don't seem that flexible when i have talked with them, i haven't spoken with Jon though.

-Tim

Ahh,
Just saw you're in Leeds Rog, perfect. Feel free to send it to my work address as I can using the franking machine at work should we get stung for import duty.
You don't happen to know if they sell tape too? Other wise I'll have to order some from Quest which'll cost more to ship than the value of the tape.
Thanks again,
Matt

Going through the MYOG articles here, I found this and thought it could be of interest to some folks here:

Make Your Own Gear: Five Yards to SuperUltraLight

Four articles series to make a Tarp, Pack and Stuff Sack out of 5 yards of material. Excellent stuff, membership required.

Matthew, thanks for the suggestions. I reckon its going to be five to six yards then, maybe more.

Rog, my OK comes on Friday.

Tim,
Jon was impressed by this thread and the obvious demand. He wants to help, but we need to make life as easy for him as possible too. He asked if I would take the whole order and become a distributor, but this isn't practical with me being UK based. What I'm hoping is that people who want small quantities can form small syndicates to order 9 meter pieces. I've just asked Jon if he will cut these to requirements.

The subtext seems to be that there is some kind of 'join' every 9 meters and self designers need to consider this when planning their patterns.

Matt, just maybe, we could persuade someone kind like Tim to take delivery of the overseas material after we've paid for it, and send it on via USPS in packages marked 'Gift : $65 value'. It's light enough after all. ;-)

Regarding jlointing, I was considering glue and stitch. Maybe we can obtain suitable tape in the UK? Needs advice and research.

I have no problem upping my order to 9.84333333333 yards.
Mike

Mike, I know I know. I have a hard time understanding the American love of being vague about yard - meter conversions too. I will seek clarification from Jon on the matter. :o)

I'd very much like to consider ordering some of this cuben, but seeing as I'm in Japan and way out of the way of most of the orders here, I wonder if I'd just be too out of the way? Are there any Japanese MYOG people here? 日本でキューベンを手に入れたい人いませんか？

Edited by butuki on 09/21/2009 11:07:43 MDT.

Miguel, there are a few Japanese who post here. I would think You could join in with the Australians and get them to post yours on? How much are you after?

Rog,

Not sure what i am going to do yet. I get e-mails everyday about making cuben shelters. I just have to get people to commit before i can jump in line. The wait time is also an issue for me. Many of my customers would opt for white as they can get their shelter faster. We'll see what i can do, as of right now no one has committed.

-Tim

Tim, I understand your reluctance to stock expensive material ahead of getting firm orders. The ball is rolling here, and I'm confident that:

A) We will reach the target within the next couple of weeks
B) That Jon will get on with the job quickly once he's sure the demand is there.
C) Your potential customers would understand that the time is right for decisions if you give them a nudge.

Winter is coming and people may think to put off putting down money on gear they won't use until next year, but there again, it's a good MYOG time of year, and small producers like to take time off in summer too. Joe at Z-packs for example.

Why not take a straw poll and see how many would be interested in Green rather than White? I know which I prefer.

I might be interested in getting you to make up some of my material into a couple of mateable poncho tarps for Kath and myself. We intend going SUL next year, and I trust your workmanship and your experience with this material.

I just ordered 45 yards from Chris at Cubictech of the
same lot so you now have enough for him to proceed. I paid
by credit card so no need to include me in the billing/
shipping process.

Wow. Great!
How much of a hurry are you in for your 45 yards David?

I'll keep our books open for those who are still waiting monthly paychecks etc and contact Jon to see how he wishes to proceed.


Clarification from Jon on the 'joins' issue: Not joins, but folds.

"Every 9m, there is a fold in the material. The strength should not be affected, but the fold is often permanently visible. Another way to say it is that if you order 36m, you will receive a continuous 36m piece of fabric that is folded 3 times, every 9m, forming a quadruple stack of laminate that is pressed together. The layers are firmly pressed together, but will cleanly peel apart, or you can cut through all four layers for cutting efficiency."

On the cutting front, Cubic Tech will not cut down the 9m panels, so we need a willing intermediary to help the people with small orders, or a member of each syndicate to cut and repost their friends pieces.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/21/2009 15:34:23 MDT.

I can distribute from Australia
Possibly even NZ if there are any NZ-ers in that list.

Edited by PedroArvy on 09/21/2009 17:15:44 MDT.

Don't wait for me. I can always get the white when i need it. Maybe if i get moving on my site i will be ready to roll next time. I seriously get inquires every day about cuben shelters, but nobody ready to drop the hammer. Maybe next time.

-Tim

Ron from MLD gave some Info on Cuben, and I thus decided not to get any of the CT1K.08 stuff - being a beginner it might be to difficult to work with for me.

Edited by skullmonkey on 09/22/2009 00:19:31 MDT.

You gotta tell us what he said. Can't throw that out there and leave us hanging. Did he confirm which type he is calling .6oz?

-Tim

You might want to try clicking on the link!

didn't even think of that, just assumed it was a link to his profile. How easy it is to be dull.

Yeah, I'm out for sure. I need the heavier stuff.

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 09/22/2009 00:43:02 MDT.

Jon at cubic Tech tells me they will now go ahead with production scheduled for completion in 2-3 weeks.

Ordering is probably only by phone with CC details, I'll get confirmation on procedure. Please get your friends organised for quantities, paypal payments etc to subdivide the combined small orders.

Edit:

Whoooaaah! I just saw the posts above from Hendrick and Tim regarding Ron at MLD's info.

According to the .pdf sent to me by Jon at Cubic Tech, the CT1K.08 is 17.4g/m2 and the CT2K.08 is 25.3g/m2. The weight difference between these two is a lot more than the difference between 0.51oz and 0.6oz per square yard.

One square meter is 1.196 square yards.
One ounce is 28.35g
17.4g/1.196 = 14.548g = 0.513 oz
25.3g/1.196 = 21.154g = 0.746 oz

The stronger material is almost half as heavy again.

I wish America could get it's metric conversion under control. Maybe Ron was obfuscating to keep trade secrets and make his gear sound lighter. :-)

Obviously if we are spending big bucks we want something durable. I'll PM David Olsen and see what he has to say. It's not too late to switch weights if that's what everyone wants to do and David agrees.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/22/2009 01:42:29 MDT.

Not that my 2 yards are all that significant, but the heavier stuff sounds like the way to go after reading that post by Ron at MLD. "Tearable by hand' sounds a little scary for the lighter stuff.

For those who haven't read it, Ron Bell posted a thread about the differences between the cuben he uses. You might want to take a good look at the CT1K.08 that we've all been thinking about ordering. It may not be what you imagine. Ron calls it 0.45 weight, and quite fragile. Unless I'm misreading Rog's original post, but he does write "CT1K.08" and not "CT2K.08", which Ron mentions as the .6 .oz weight and what he uses in his tarps and shelters. Still, there was mention of 0.51 oz weight for CT1K.08, so I'm a bit confused about the differences.

Edit: Oops! Guess everyone saw the post after I started writing my comment and then waited until this afternoon to post it!

Edited by butuki on 09/22/2009 01:37:56 MDT.

Miguel, see the math in my edited post above. Ok, I have to go to work, see you all later.

I'm guessing the different part numbers Ron references in his summary are typos and the one's we're looking at are CT2K.08 and not CN2K.08 or C2K.08?
Yup, my vote goes for the heavier stuff, it's still pretty light and I don't want to trash 100 bucks of fabric in the first stiff breeze.

Hey folks!

Sorry, but I am out from the order.
It becomes too complicated to me and also
the dispatch to Germany becomes too
expensive for me.

Rob, please take my 20 yds
from the order out.

Best regards
Mateusz

We need a US distributor as that's the cheapest place to ship from.

I definitely want the stronger CT2K.08

If possible I would prefer the stronger CT2K.08 also.
Mike

OK, didn't mean to stir things up, simply got the impression from Ron's post that the lightweight Cuben wouldn't suit my needs.

In case you're going to order the Cuben which Ron refers to as CN2K.08, I might be back on board (I still first know on Friday for sure), though only if we find someone in the USA who would act as a distributor as it makes it easier to everyone else involved.

Ok, looks like some quick decisions have been made here. I just want to make a couple of points regarding material weight and shipping.

1) 1.1oz silnylon ripstop tears pretty easy too if you nick an edge and pull it. This weight has been the cottage industry standard for light tarps for years. I haven't heard any reports of catastrophic failures. This is because tent makers put seams on the edge of the cloth. It doubles the strength and prevents fraying.

2) If Ron managed to rip the cloth pulling it over the corner of his cutting table, then the corner of his cutting table is too sharp.

3) I take care of my gear, and travel very light. I still favour the 0.51oz material, but will go with the majority. Bear in mind that we are still waiting for another tentmakers opinion which is important with regards to the present order: David Olsen's.

4) If someone in the states really wants some of this, they may offer to help with forwarding material to overseas members. All for one and one for all, right?

I still want the stronger stuff as I am using it for a bivy base.

I want the heavier stuff too.

Rog,

I must disagree that silnylon tears easily. I am a big man (extensively documented)and i can't tear it at all, i can deform it but without a significant starter cut i can't do much to it. (i have had silnylon from Quest that was easy to tear, but the stuff from Noah Lamport and OWFINC seems to be much stronger)

I have been using the .33 for quilts and if the .51(Ron's .45) is anything like it i can easily see it getting damaged during the construction process. I think this can be controlled by treating it like tissue paper and lifting it to move it instead of pulling it (across a table's corner)

The .51 isn't much different than the .48 that is available from quest. I think that if you are going to put the energy toward getting this specially made I would want to get something that i couldn't easily get elsewhere. I think the durability of the .75(Ron's .6) is what is needed for shelters (maybe extreme light shelters of the other stuff are exciting, but who knows how long they will last)

I too would like David Olsen's opinion on this matter. He has been making cuben gear too and it would be interesting to compare what he uses vs. MLD. (Dave posted as i was writing)

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 09/22/2009 09:57:57 MDT.

The 0.51oz/yd was a nogo for me, the prospect of it being 0.6oz/yd moves me into the strong maybe category. But being one of those "tell me precisely what we're talking about" kind of folks I called Cuben Tech:

1) They are quite tuned into this discussion and are thinking that it is heading towards CT2K08. The rest of my notes here is about that product in the green color.
2) The product is sold in 9 meter increments only. So folks wanting quantity not in 9 meter increments will need a middle man to receive, cut and forward it to you.
3) CT2K08 weighs 0.6oz per sailmaker's yard which he said is 0.74oz per 36"by36" yard
4) I asked about McNett AquaSeal adhesive. With the caveat that they do not endorse any other product used with theirs he said that it works well but all adhesives will fail sooner with peel forces than with shear forces and they like a combo of adhesive and stitching.
5) I asked about suggested stitch length and he said 6-8 per inch, definitely be longer than 10 per inch. 6 per inch is about as long as most home machines will do.
6) He confirmed that the product will be 54 inches wide.
7) Price would be $23.46 per running meter, $211.14 per 9 meter panel

Like a couple others I need to sleep on this but IF I'm in it'd probably be for a 9 meter panel.

Also IF I'm in I'd be willing to be a middleman, cut panels into partial lengths and forward to others including overseas. Cost would be my actual cost delivered to me plus actual shipping fees to forward it plus 10% to cover PayPal fees, packaging and a tiny bit for my time

Well done Jim.
What a team effort, this is great.
I am still in for 9 meters, and willing to share the load of distribution under the same conditions.
Mike

Ok, I've pulled a long shift, and will keep this brief because I have another to do tomorrow.

Jim, thanks for the solid info and the offer to help distribute. Michael, thanks to you too for backing up the distribution.

It's clear that the general consensus is to go for the 0.748oz weight. I have no problem with that, as I said earlier, I go with the majority decision, and I thank Tim and Ron for their expert input.

Jon has emailed me to say that Cubic Tech are happy to produce whatever we settle on.

So this just leaves us with about 20 yards to fulfill the order now Matheus has dropped out. I don't think we'll have any problem finding more buyers, especially now that we have kind offers to forward the material in small cut quantities from like minded MYOGers.

Thanks to everyone, this is heading for a good result.

I am no "expert" when it comes to cuben shelters. I work with the .33 a lot right now, but i look forward to working with the heavier stuff that i don't have to be afraid to breathe on. If we're getting the .75 i think i will get some too. I know i have at least 9m to get right now, maybe another 9 in a few days, we'll see.

-Tim

I can bump my order to 18 meters if that will help. With Roger Caffin's help I may be attempting to create a double wall tunnel tent.
Mike

Great, sounds like we are back up to quantity, I'll update the list on the original post so Jon can get a handle on the order quantity without having to wade through the thread.

Tim, your knowledge about the .33 weight material has helped inform this decision. That said, I have a small piece of the .48 from Quest I got a while back and it seems pretty strong to me. Anyhow, I'm not grumbling, because the .74 will be going on a round the world trip with me and Kath in a year or so, and it's still half the weight of the nylon we would have had to take otherwise.

Thanks for your help on this Jim, would it be better for you if we make payments to you through PayPal as a gift which would save you any PayPal fees? I guess it's all much of a muchness.
Also, if the panels are in meter lengths should we all order in meters? I'd prefer 4 meters rather than 4 yards to be honest and it would avoid any Space Shuttle type metric/imperial confusion. Does seem strange that they confirmed it's 54 inches wide and yet sold in 9 meter lengths.
I'm feeling pretty unwell right now so hopefully I'm making sense and I've not just confused the issue, if so just ignore me : O )

Responses to Matt's questions are below. But one of them triggered awareness of a factor I failed to consider. We have 16 yards (maybe meters) of "short orders" (not a length in 9m increments). I'd have to order 18 meters to cover that. For lower priced material I'd just buy the two extra meters myself ... I'd use it sooner or later ... but not at this price!

My first idea for a solution is to round every "short order" up to what would make the total a 9 meter increment (your costs increase). Are folks OK with that idea? Other ideas?

Hendrick's possible 5 and/or Jared's possible 6-9 would shift the details of this issue. We can get more specific when decisions are made.

Thanks for your help on this Jim, would it be better for you if we make payments to you through PayPal as a gift which would save you any PayPal fees?

I wasn't aware of that option. That'd be fine with me.

Also, if the panels are in meter lengths should we all order in meters?

Well, since I don't think I own a "meter stick" but do own a "yard stick" I'll be doing conversion if folks order meters. But I can do either way. And yes, unlike NASA's contractors, I DO know how to do the conversion (that SNAFU happened on a Mars mission, not shuttle, IIRC).

BTW, I won't be on the net Friday thru Monday (gotta get out and hike once in a while) and am pretty much fully booked between now and Friday.

So don't get too nervous if I'm less responsive than normal for the next 6 days;-)

Rog,

Looks like i'm at 18m (for the .75) I will order with CUBIC TECH once you have the full 100m covered.

-Tim

OK, count me in for either 6 or 9 meters depending on what the other short orders add up to.

I'll need 6 for the main project I have in mind for the winter. The other 3 is for a later project and if 6 fits the 9 meter increment constraint better than 9 then I can buy 3 more by the yard from zpacks when the time comes.

I'll look for everyone's final answers when I return next week.

I'm from Aus also, and would love to take part in this. I think I only need 2 yards, but would go in for 3 if this is more convenient, as that would bump the total to Aus to 9.

Someone let me know :-) and what I need to do to lock this in.

Edited by MichaelST on 09/24/2009 06:53:10 MDT.

Michael, you're not too late. I suggest you drop a PM to the other Aussies to work out a deal. A nine meter panel (min order direct from Cubic Tech) is about 9.8 yards.

Tim, great! we are back over target again. Suggest you go ahead and order, and let us know. The rest of us can agree our shipping strategies and get onto Cubic Tech too.

As we have reached our desired quantity, I have placed my order directly with Jon. I ended up ordering 18 meters so we have easily overshot our mark.

Mike

Ok, so I think I understand the variations in measurements now. If I were to order 3 meters, that brings the order for Aus to 9. Which seems convenient.

So that's what I will do. Petras has agreed to cut and post that amount to me, if the Aus cubens are sent to him, for which I am very grateful.

So how do we pay? Thanks for getting this organised by the way, very exciting.

Ok Rog,

I will try and connect with CUBIC TECH either tomorrow or early next week.

-Tim

Tim, that's great, this gig is under way.

Hi,

I'm new here but have been in touch with Jon at Cubictech who pointed me in this direction. I'd like to participate with an order of 9 metres "Breen" in the above weight.

I live in London, UK (1.5 blocks from Arsenal's stadium in fact)and would prefer to have someone forward 9 metres to me, in a used envelope, something that looks second hand if possible, for good well known reasons.

If this isn't possible I will order direct from Jon, at Cubictech. Could you let me know?

I'd like to say thanks for all your postings, it's a fascinating read and of great help. I'm a freelance designer approaching retirement and looking forward to days of freedom in the hills, doesn't matter where.

all best wishes, Lynne

Hi Lynne, and welcome. I have been holding off my order until the process is well under way to see if any more UK based people wanted in on this deal. So no problem, I'll tack your order onto mine along with Matt's and we'll get it sent over by Jim Colten or DJ Mike under plain wrapping for well known reasons. ;-)

Set up a personal messaging option on this board and send me your email address or email me direct rog(at)tallbloke.net and we'll get the ball rolling soon. Just need another few metres to make up a 3 panel order from Jon.

Rog,
I am ready to start the ball rolling to get the overseas orders together. Just let me know, I have lots of "used" envelopes. The djjmikie login name is from when I worked for the Dept of Juvenile Justice, thus--DJJ. Mike, Mikie, or my wife just calls me *sshole.
Mike

Rog, Mike,
Many thanks! Do I pay Cubictech direct and, then will it be Mike's address for shipping??

Lynne, sounds best to me, but keep me in the loop as my material will come via Mike too. We can keep costs down if Mike recieves all the material he will be handling for others in one consignment. He'll need to cram at all into a box to go USPS international priority over to UK, then I can redistribute within UK.

All,
I just talked with Jon Helweger at Cubic Tech and he stated that he will begin his production run this Monday. He also said that he plans on running approx 200 meters total.
So…we need to get the orders from each country together, in 9 meter sections and place each order. Jon would prefer e-mail contact for the orders and his e-mail address is: Jon@cubictechnology.com
I think it would be easier for each individual country to pay cubic tech directly and have it sent to my address and then I will assess postage to them. Jon is agreeable to this and just needs to know that a specific order is to be sent to me. This seems easiest and I only have to worry about money for postage. What do you think?
Jim Colten has also agreed to be a “middleman” but will not be on the net until this Tuesday. He has agreed to cut multi person orders into pieces and mail out.
This is, of course, subject to his stating that he is still willing on Tuesday.

Mike

Care to comment on what you plan to make with your Cuben? I've been interested in a cuban alphamid or pyramid for winter use for some time now.

I purchased a Cuben pyramid from MLD but the profile wasn't what I expected (advertised height is 1' greater than actual height with the expectation "you'll pitch it 1' off of the ground") The much less steep sides makes for less than ideal snow shedding and not really comfortable room for 3 or 4 despite the 6" x 6" wider footprint than a BD megalight. (The walls of the tent bump into sleeping bags unless you're the person on either side of the pole.)

I'm interested in a few yards and would be willing to go to the 9.84333 yard length if necessary. I've made a couple of cuben tarps already and just need to replace some stuffsacks and work on a couple of other projects.

I'd like to get the final word on color and weight before I commit. I think it's still the "breen" in 0.7 weight from what I can see.

Kevin,
Yes "breen" (Brown and green) Price currently is $23.46 per running meter, $211.14 per 9 meter panel. This is for CT2K.08, a 0.74oz/square yd, 54" wide material.
Hope this helps.
Mike

I'dd love to make a cuben tarp, but I don't think I could go $211 bucks right now. Cool idea though.

Joe,
Find someone to split it with.
Mike

Joe,

I'd get another 3m if you wanted to get 6m. I would take deliver with my other 18 and send yours on to you. If you want. My order gives me 3 extra m, so 6m would make me a tarp for myself!

-Tim

The wider width would make it less labor to create the 8x8'
plus pyramid. The ones I made in the past (like for
Ryans Alaska trip )had to have extra panels at the corners
and took a lot more labor. I like a tall pyramid shape
for shedding interior condensation and snow
and for more headroom.

Probably some alphamids and some square and catenary ridge
tarps too. Scraps for stuffsacks.

BPL went from the lighter weight to the heavier weight for
their stuffsacks.

Edited by oware on 09/25/2009 18:18:55 MDT.

Thanks for the offer Tim, but I should probably wait until I have my job interview next week.

I understand, just wanted to make the offer.

-Tim

"I think it would be easier for each individual country to pay cubic tech directly and have it sent to my address and then I will assess postage to them. Jon is agreeable to this and just needs to know that a specific order is to be sent to me. This seems easiest and I only have to worry about money for postage. What do you think?"

Mike, that would be terrific. I'd be happy to send some shipping payment upfront for the UK order, and adjust as necessary once you know the exact price if that helps.

Perhaps if Jim's willing to handle the cutting of the small US orders, and you handle international and leave cutting to the recipient for each country that would be a fair labour split, and the recipient wouldn't run the risk of sending the wrong length to someone.

I feel like I'm palming off the hardest part of this job, many many thanks for taking this on.

Tim, as things stand, we could fit 3m into the UK order for you, and Mike could lop it off and ship it straight to you via internal US mail.

Of course, this assumes you are planning on a 10'x9' tarp or similar.

no, i think i better not, i wanted to make it possible for Joe but i think it's best if i save the $$.

-Tim

Well, your 3m spare will just about make a viable poncho tarp anyway. Seems to me you could justify the extra on the basis that it'll be a billbpoard for your business wherever you camp.

i was thinking poncho tarp or small solo shelter. If i got the extra 3 i would have just made a heavy tarp, so good thing i didn't do that.

-Tim

Lol, you have a point.

Ok, I think I can stretch to another 5 meters in the hope I can sell it on to make the UK end easier to deal with, obviously if anyone wants more then I'd be more than happy to sell it on and I can post internationally too.
Rog, my offer is still open to receive the material and get my work to pick up any duty should we get stung and I can distribute it for free too, perks of the job : o )
Once things are sorted just let me know who I need to pay and I'll send the money, I'd prefer paypal if possible.
Matt

Rog, Mike and Matt - I'll stay tuned for your final decision.
I'm really grateful. The savings will turn a pioneering extravagance into an every-day, politically astute, household essential if your politics are green (or breen in this case).

I saw backpackers near Paimpol, Brittany, France, a couple of weeks ago, many cycling, taking small pedestrian-only ferries to the islands off the coast. There are many in Europe who would benefit from cuben fiber and increasing numbers of "grey nomads" (thank you Australia for that great export).

I'm not commercially involved. I've made one silnylon tent which aimed at 750gms but became a weighty 1.1kg. Sigh! I blame my fear of rising damp.

Edited by LynneT on 09/26/2009 04:40:26 MDT.

Matt, fine by me as long as it's not going to be a potential problem for you at work. I agree you'll have no trouble moving any spare material either on Gear Swap here or ebay.

Lynne, looks like the plan has come together, If you, Matt and I each order 9m direct from Cubic Tech and get it posted to Mike, he'll move it to Matt and Matt will pass it out to you and me.

Cubic Tech will have some more spare for latecomers.

Let's order on Monday.

Rog, I decided not to join the order this time, maybe another time =)

Hendrik, no problem, our combined order is big enough and production starts Monday. I think it'll be a while before the next production run, though there will be some spare for a short while.

Perfect, sounds like a plan. It's no trouble for me to post, I do it all the time.
Is it weird to be excited about cuben fibre? : o )

Is it too late to get in for 9 meters? I will definitely commit.

I'm sending a new PM (amending from 5 to 9 yds).

BTW, I really appreciate all the work you're putting into this. Thanks!

Hi Justin, no problem, order direct from Cubic Tech via jon@cubictechnology.com and get it mailed direct to you if you are in the states. Mention this thread, Jon is well aware of it.

Cheers

Rog

Matt, just read your PM. I need a minimum of 7m which leaves just under 3 yards. My guess is we can easily shift the remainders. I know it's a big sum. Maybe between you me and Lynne we only actually need 18m?

Edit: I just PM'd Lynne to ask what she actually needs.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/26/2009 12:14:28 MDT.

Ahh ok, thought you were ignoring me : O )
Ok, cool, let me know what Lynne comes back with, hopefully we can all save a few bob.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend,
Matt

I couldn't ignore this comment - LOL. I think cuben fiber is great stuff. If it means I can get out and about at my age - that's freedom and I'm excited!! Robert Louis Stevenson did a journey across the highlands of Scotland around a hundred years ago with a donkey to carry his (heavy) homemade sheepskin and canvas sleeping bag which was also his tent. (I think he had to park the donkey so it wouldn't eat it at night.) So, with a donkey you may not need cuben fiber; without a donkey ... it helps.

Matt - I need minimum 6.5 to 7 meters, (min 7 yards) 8m would be better. I could go to 10 or 11m as this opportunity may not come again for awhile. (?) Many thanks

Thought - My tent will pay for itself in the UK in about 10-15 days of use - I'm all excited again!!

Edited by LynneT on 09/27/2009 07:34:11 MDT.

It's good to know I'm not the only one Lynne : O )
No problem if you need more, we can firm it up closer to the time but there's plenty to go round.
Good luck with your tent, I'd love to see how you make it and some action shots would be interesting too.
Matt

Us too. Kath and I have been out in the back garden employing Franco's stick and string technique to design our cuben tent. I reckon I need a minimum of 7 metres, allowing for a bit extra for my cuben pack idea.

If Matt still wants 4 yards, that would leave a bit over 7 metres for Lynne on an 18 metre order, or lots for everyone and some spare to sell if we go for 27 metres. I was hoping another UK order would pop up to help solve this conundrum, but we need to get our order in in the next couple of days, so let's thrash it out.

Yup,
Still just need 4 yards although I'm fighting the urge to use the extra for something else

Ok Matt, I make 4 yards to be 3.7 metres near as. So, Lynne, 7 metres without a fold line or 7.3 with a fold line at 5.3 metres? I can use either. Hope you can cut straight Matt!

Me too! : O )
It's ok, I can use the spray booth at work to measure and cut the material as it's cleaned every few days and there's lots of space to work in. Tim mentioned he uses sharp scissors to cut cuben although I've also heard of using razors too; I have both so I'll test them on my bit to what works best.

It doesn't seem like my 2 yards are going to work out that well since I'm in Canada and seemingly no one else is. If someone from the USA needs my 2 yards to make 9 yards, then I'll gladly buy 2 yards from you, but otherwise it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Matt,

I do use scissors to cut the .33 cuben. However i don't know if it will work on the .75 stuff. Also i don't cut with them like you normally use scissors. I only open them a little and then push them along the cut line instead of chomping to cut. Chomping with them is useless.

-Tim

I'm very happy to go with 7 metres for now.
Matt - I will let you know how the tent goes - just don't die laughing!! Designing will be a lot of fun.

Edit - 7.3 metres with a foldline is preferred for the extra fabric, but a plain 7m is fine also, no worries.

Edited by LynneT on 09/28/2009 02:56:46 MDT.

Lynne, 7m is plenty for a two person tent. If you run short with your pattern I will have some offcuts for corner strengtheners etc.

OK, I'll fire the email of to Jon and pay with my cc for 18m. I'll PM my account number to you and Matt. If you'd be so kind as to put the funds into my account, that will all work out. The material will go to Mike Crosby, who will send it to Matt's work address for cutting and redistribution.

Perfect, it's sorted then. Just let me know who I need to pay and the long wait for the new toys to arrives begins ( I think the old adage of watched pots applies here, for me at least)
Rog, you posted as I was writing. No worries, just give me your account number and I can transfer the money to you or PayPal it as a gift if you prefer.

Edited by Boddunn on 09/28/2009 03:14:35 MDT.

Matt, cool, I'll let you know in due course.

Lynne, Ah, You edited while I wrote my post. Let's compare designs so we can work out who can best deal with the fold. I know my design will cope with it. I can always send you some spare material at a later stage.

Rog - I'll wait for PM.
USD23.46 x 7metres = USD164.22. Today's rate from natWest is 1.5040 (grim). My bank tells me this amount today is equal to £110.00 (£109.71) = not bad for an SUL tent.

You may need a second payment to cover any shortfall in your bank's daily USD/GBP exchange rate.

I'm after a tent for 2 that concertinas down from the INSIDE to a well ventilated bivy. We lost our common land with the Enclosure Act - I'm sure you know what that's about!

Matt - you need postage £s. Next Day Special Delivery covers insurance and could actually be cheapest.

Thanks to you both - and Mike too (steel rule and roller cutter?) - thanks a million!

Hi Lynne,
No worries about postage, I can post it by Next Day Special Delivery before 1pm for free (if I paid for it questions would be asked!).
I'm definitely intrigued about this Transformer tent, sounds pretty ingenious!

Inside toggles and a net skirt; longer than usual peaks back and front covering large no-seeum nets placed high and above 8 inch bath; walking pole situated 1/3 way inside front vestibule. The vestibule folds away inside for a lower profile. More than this needs work. Failing this we all breathe in at the same time and wished we'd purchased a manufactured SUL. I will seriously share any half decent ideas, I'm here for the fun of it, and also would like to support Brits who are suffering under said Enclosure Act, although it doesn't sound like those here are suffering too much. So more later I think.

Postage, many thanks but please let me know if you need help.

Lynne, there will be a one third share in shipping to Mike and international shipping to Matt to add, shouldn't be more than a tenner. I'll PM you details when I have a price.

Your tent design sound very interesting. I do a lot of stealth camping too, and know what you mean.

I'm going for an overgrown Six Moons wild oasis style big enough for a tallbloke. http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=48

We are planning to travel the world in a year or so and want something big enough to sit up comfortably in. The heavy items will be the zip and insect mesh. Failure is not an option on a long trip so I'm reluctantly going to use military grade gear I have in stock. I can always swap it out later I guess. Groundsheet will be plastic du jour. I found the Adventure Medical heat sheets are pretty light and a good size, and last much better than space blankets. I'll just gum these to the mesh and replace as needed with whatever is to hand once we run out. The single pole will be made from four sections of carbon fibre golf club shaft. These will also serve as pack stays to transfer weight from shoulders to hips when we are on the move. A long trip demands pack versatility and loads may not always be as tight as we'd like to have them.

Catching up after being gone ...

Looks like the UK folks have worked out their order, correct?

The AUS folks needs add up to 9 yards so I'm assuming they will arrange to have a 9m length shipped to one of them who will cut it and forward it, that'll be more cost effective than a U.S. purchaser cutting and shipping to them.

Justin Ling will order 9 meters for himself?

That leaves:
Vick Hines interested in 4 yards
Myself interested in 6 yards
Jared Cook still a maybe,
able to provide a final answer "next month" (October?)
and Dan Durston interested in 2 yards
if we can make that fit into an order.

Do I have that correct?

Jared, are you able to name a more specific decision date?

I don't need the material right away, is Vick also able to wait?

If it ends up being just Vick and I ... a 9m length is 9.84 yards (9.527 feet) and if Vick can get by with 3 inches less than 4 yards then I'll make do with 3 inches less than 6 yards.

If Jared becomes a yes and can make do with 6 yards then we'd be able to accommodate Dan's interest in 2 yards if I order 18m and cut it into 6m, 6m, 4m and 2m lengths.

If Jared decides to get 9 then he's $$ ahead ordering directly from Cuben Tech

Sounds like good planning...it would be neat to get a hold of these 2 yards but I won't be distraught if it doesn't work out. I'll just keep an eye on this thread and paypal someone if they are willing to ship me 2 yards.

Yes the Aus folks are organising via me.
Please email me if you are from Aus and I haven't contacted you.

Rog - thank you for your post, there's a lot of food for thought there, much appreciated.

I just placed an order with Jon for 18 meters (green, heavier material as everyone else). I can forward some smaller amounts to others needing some in the US, who have not yet made other arrangments to get some. PM me if you want some.

Jim,
Sure, I can get by with 4" less. I'll be out of touch all next week, but contact me through this site for arrangements.
Vick

I now have the UK's order confirmed. There is an initial 50% payment to be made. I'll be dealing with that when I get back home thursday.

Jim, great, glad to see you back. List on page one should be up to date.

Henry, great, let us know if your offer affects our list.

I'm ordered too.

-Tim

Is it possible to jump in for 2 running metres at this late stage? Reading the thread the UK section seems to have got a bit of spare for people such as me. If it is what do I do?

This question should be directed to Rog Tallbloke as he is in charge of the UK order. Try to PM him.
Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 10/01/2009 15:43:56 MDT.

I did PM rog at the same time. Thanks for the advice

Replied to Derek.

We now have 118m on order including David Olsen's material. Jon told me Cubic Tech was going to produce more than the minimum order length of 99m, but he didn't say how much more. Time to get those orders in to Cubic Tech!

I emailed Jon about getting 9m shipped directly to me if he has any left over. I have never done any type of sewing project before so you guys will have to help walk me thru it. I do think if I ask real nice, I can get my mother to help, and she can sew, so that should help. I am looking to make a shelter similar to the GG SpinnShelter (probably stealing design elements from other shelters such as the Golite Shangrala 1a) with the new foot end, but adding a vent (which should be easy enough), and a redesigned front end, with a vent and perhaps a zipper.

I have really fell in love with the SpinnShelter except for (Rob called it) the white color, the new gray looks nice, and I thought about just ordering a new one, but talked myself into trying to make my own. If I chicken out, I figure the Cuben would go pretty quick on the Gear Swap.

Brad,
Jon has replied to me there will be plenty in stock. The UK contingent has a tidy 18metres with none left over. I need 2 metres minimum. I would have thought and hope that 9 metres was more than you need for one tarp. If you are ordering 9 metres because you have to, could we do something like getting your order shipped to mike and asking him to cut 2 m or so off to add to the UK order for me and he would send 7 on to you. I could pay you by paypal.

Edit I do not think I need this Brad as I now probably have Colin Ibbotson of British tarp and 100 gram rucksack fame on board to share my 9 metres. Nothing is yet certain though maybe we will need more.

Edited by Derekoak on 10/02/2009 10:21:54 MDT.

Hi Brad,
I plan to glue and sew. Huzefa may be forthcoming with info from Loctite on his cuben down/air mattress thread. I've heard that around 8 stitches per inch with a good polyester thread like guterman's is just the job.

I'm considering using a roll of masking tape to get the slippy material through the machine but this will require some experimentation to see if the tape glue gums up the needle.

More advice welcome here too.

Derek, It's possible Lynne might take a bit more to help make up your order if Brad wants the whole 9.8 yards.

Hot from my inbox, a mail from Jon Holweger informing me that including Brad's 9m and 9m for a second UK order from Derek if it goes ahead, there is 27-26m still available. I hope the Aussies have their order in.

They charged my card, so it must be a go.

Wooooooooo! and may I add, Hoooooooo!

:-)

David,
Did they charge you only half or the full amount? I was charged half at time of ordering and was told other half upon shipment.
Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 10/02/2009 11:30:36 MDT.

Can I second the wooooo and the hoooo? : o )
I'll paypal the money to you tomorrow once I'm back from attending to my sickly girlfriend, I'm just going out the door.
By the way, the free postage distribution applies to anyone in the UK so if the extra 9 meters works out just include it with the rest.
Matt

I am still waffling a bit as to whether I want to tackle this project. It does seem silly that I would spend as much in materials as I could buy a SpinnShelter from GG for. I would make a few changes, but nothing major and there is always the chance that I could mess the whole thing up. I'll think about it over the weekend and let everyone know.

OK, I guess it is time to make the leap and order some.

I contacted Jared and he's not in a position to decide this month.

Vick Hines and I will split a 9 meter order, 3.6 (3.93 yards) for Vick and 5.4 meters for me.

Perhaps Dan Durston can work out a deal with Henry Blake for the 2 yards he wants.

Edited by jcolten on 10/02/2009 12:14:18 MDT.

Vick,

I've placed our order. Don't know the shipping date yet. I understand you are out of town for a while ... I'm NOT in a rush, just keeping you in the loop.

edit: got an email from Sherri at Cuben Tech saying the orders will probaly ship Thursday next week (10/8)

Edited by jcolten on 10/02/2009 18:28:09 MDT.

I have placed our order for 9 metres (to the UK)

Hello Matthew,
can you get your email online? I would like to give you my delivery address details and send your contact information to Colin Ibbottson so he can do the same. Colin Says Cubictech are shipping out Thursday. I want 5 of our 9 metres Colin gets 4.

Hi Derek,
Thanks for your address, if anyone else would like to send me their address they can contact me at mattydunn at hotmail dot com but I'll chase it up once I know the material is on its way.
I believe Jim Colten will be receiving the material in the US and then distributing it to the various countries so the postage will be going to him, I'm sure he'll be in touch once he receives the material and he's had a chance to cut it up and get it ready to ship.
Speak soon,
Matt

Matt, got the final invoice last night and will update you and Lynne. Material ships thursday all being well.

So has Jim taken over international distribution from Mike?

Edited by tallbloke on 10/06/2009 03:34:05 MDT.

Err....
Probably not, sorry was just flicking through the posts and that was the first one I saw, my mistake.
Let us know about the balance though Rog, did you get my note attached the the payment querying the quantity of my order? If not I'll PM you about it.
Matt

Matt, didn't spot it. PM me. I'll PM you this eve with totals and quantity. Don't worry, you'll get 4 yards exactly. Measured wiv a yardstick. ;-)

I believe Jim Colten will be receiving the material in the US and then distributing it to the various countries so the postage will be going to him

My most recent understanding is that small (not a multiple of 9 meters) UK and AUS orders would be handled by someone in each of those countries.

Most of the US orders were multiples of 9 meters. That left Vick Hines and myself splitting a 9 meter panel.

Unless something has happened without my notice, all out of US shipments are coming to me for repackaging and resending. I am still willing to do this.
Mike

Sorry Jim, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying Mike.
PM on its way Rog.
I'll get my coat : O )

So it looks like there was double the material made than ordered.
Does this mean that they will still have 9 yards available in the green at the regular price?

Just got mine, it is nice. I am very pleased. I am want to get my first shelter done so i can set this up as i'm not sure the color is going to be very noticeable (i know thats the point, i mean it is still very see through)

-Tim

my shipment arrived also, extremely well packaged ... 6 lb package containing 11oz of material. But now I have a shipping tube strong enough for a nephew to use in making a potato cannon, he-he.

Got mine plus the UK and Aus orders.
Mike

just got mine.

Anyone looking to have a custom tarp made from it.

Edited by oware on 10/14/2009 12:10:12 MDT.

The UK and Aus orders have been mailed.
Mike

Many thanks Mike. Can't wait!

I just unrolled and cut my CUBEN for a project. What I discovered was that the roll has been folded and then rolled. So... the 6.5 yards I thought I cut was actually 13 yards in 2 6.5 yard pieces. Make sure when you cut that you are not cutting 2 layers. Unless you unroll the entire thing and split the 2 halves apart and re roll you will be cutting 2 layers. I now have 1 -7 yard piece and 2- 6.5 yard pieces.

THIS PROBLEY ONLY APPLIES TO THE 18 METER PIECES.

Edited by djjmikie on 10/18/2009 14:06:56 MDT.

They come with 4 layers together.

David,
I just checked my 18 meter roll and I can only find 2 layers. Yours is most likley 4 due to the Qty you ordered.

I just went back through the thread and found this:

>The subtext seems to be that there is some kind of 'join' every 9 meters and self designers need to consider this when planning their patterns.<

I believe this "join" is actually a fold.

Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 10/18/2009 14:32:21 MDT.

Thanks for the heads up Mike, I imagine it could be kind of pricey if I managed to cut the material wrong. I'll be sure to check and double check before I start cutting.
Hope you can still complete your project.
Matt

Thanks Matt,
I do not think I really hurt myself project wise. Just glad my first cut was so big as the leftover piece with the fold is the correct size for the first project. I really just got lucky but wanted to make sure no one else made the same mistake.
Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 10/18/2009 14:55:47 MDT.

Yep, it's a fold, Jon told me it shouldn't affect material strength, but my leave a crease.

By the way Mike, payment for shipping is with you now.

Edited by tallbloke on 10/18/2009 15:30:26 MDT.

Thanks Rog!!

There will be 1 layer of material for every 9m ordered. THe only way to use it is to unroll and re-roll it in a single layer, a real pain, but worth it.

-Tim

I would just like to thank Michael for taking care of all our orders. It's wonderful, many thanks.

Lynne,
Thanks.
I was but 1 player in the orchestra.
Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 10/20/2009 06:18:55 MDT.

Does that make Roger the conductor or the composer? : O )
Can I play the bassoon? That's such a cool word!
Seriously though, thanks to everyone involved, I'll post here when the fabric arrives so the UK contingent can all start watching their letter boxes.

Matt,
I think that makes Roger both the conductor and the composer.
I have no problem playing the buffoon.
Mike

Triangle.

I just finished sewing a solo mid with this material. I love this stuff. Final size is 100"x40"x42" and it weighs 7.3oz. I do need to tape the major seams still but don't think that will take it to 8oz for a fully enclosed shelter. I will get some pics this weekend so you can see how the fabric looks in the fall woods.

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 10/23/2009 22:58:18 MDT.

"Does that make Roger the conductor or the composer?"

General arm waver I think.

Somehow, it's all come together. Thanks to all for their help.

Final bills coming out to Matt and Lynne today. Not going to charge Derek postage from U.S. as I owe him for a beer keg he sent me. Mike, who was the other UK recipient please?

Hi Roger,
do you mean Colin Ibbotson who is due 4 of the 9 metres I ordered? If you do we have some balancing payments to make between us. I will message his contact details tomorrow

Here are a few pics of the mid in the woods. It doesn't disappear by any means, but it doesn't grab the eye either. At a distance i'm sure you'd hardly notice it.






-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 10/26/2009 12:23:50 MDT.

Looks fantastic as ever Tim; I guess the big question is how much does that bad boy weigh?

Weight after seam tape is an even 8oz. That includes 6 line locks.

It is hard to pitch it with enough interior length. I will have to keep working on the design to get the needed length. it is 100"x40"x42"tall and i still feel cramped inside length wise at 6'2".

-Tim

OK, it's never bothered me to ask a stupid question. Why are mids always symmetrical? Seems like you would have more head room if you made it slightly asymetrical...

Looks good Tim. Maybe mid panel tie-outs, a 1/3 of the way up, would give more headroom and steepen the end walls? You could simply use a couple of sticks.

I would speculate that mids are symmetrical for better wind-shedding from any direction? Just a guess.

I have got some of this breen cuben coming and I am hoping to make an assymetrical mid. The duomid is symmetrical but with 2 people one is sleeping under the door. I am trying to get 2 people on one side of a sloping pole and the door/ cooking area on the other. This involves a 4 sided pyramid with one edge the door and the other 3 edges on the other side of the pole set out to give most headroom over there. The left and right edges truncate at the width of the cuben 54" and end in small triangular vertical walls which may be used for controlled ventilation. I dont think the wind will be more of a problem, but it is an experiment.

I'm looking forward to seeing that Derek. There should be a few interesting designs over the next few weeks.

i think i am still pitching it wrong. When i made the AlpineMid for T.D. it was shorter than this but i fit in it better. I didn't pull the sides out so much and i think that if i pitch it with the sides at 40" (like i designed them to be) i will get more length, i will try this but i am sure it will help, pulling the sides out is making it shorter. Like anything, practice makes perfect. Good thing the guy who this is for is shorter than me by a bit. If i can figure out the pitch so i fit he'll be plenty good. I know i can get it it, it's just a matter of pitching things in the right order.

-Tim

Using your numbers, I ran the numbers earlier for my own entertainment, but I guess I will share. You should gain 7.7 inches with a height of 39 inches. I assumed that you measured center to ground. If you measured by pole length, ignore me. It seems like you should get more than what I calculated, maybe I am wrong, thought I would share anyway. First Post, two year member, please be gentle!
-Aaron

edit: I was running numbers because I really like the work you do. I was trying to figure out how the design could be made asymmetrical, as somebody else mentioned. The sewing complexity of doing so seems daunting to me.

Edited by a_bybee on 10/26/2009 23:12:12 MDT.

Hi Aaron,
I dont think the sewing is more complex than say Tim's. It will be for me, because I have never sewed cuben before, but all seams are basically straight. The problem of asymmetry is the cutting (apart from spelling asymmetry). I have a walking pole and string structure on my lawn at the moment to take measurements from. My design is symmetrical left to right looking at the door. All 4 main panels are 54" wide, the "selvage" of the cuben goes up each side of the door and the same at the back. In shape there are 2 mirror pairs, both irregular trapeziums. pair at the door sides and a pair at the back. I have not had the cuben in my hand but if the material is the same both sides. I should be able to get the pairs out economically. Then there are the little triangles for the vent walls. I am afraid I might not have enough cuben.
I am afraid of the details: do I cut "catenary" edges? can I glue? what glue? can I avoid sewing if I glue and tape? How many reinforcement patches at stress points? How do I avoid stressing lightweight zips? How much top ventilation? Do I make it midge proof?
I am hoping for help from this forum on these things

Argh!
Just received an invoice from Parcelfarce for £95.09! Looks like the size of the package meant it was processed by them rather than Royal Mail, I'll ring them in a bit to see if I can use the franking machine to pay for it and let you all know. Fingers crossed!
Matt

Ok,
I can't frank the charges so we'll have to split them I'm afraid. I suggest we figure out how much each of us have ordered and split the charges according to the percentage of each order.
I've worked out the charges equate to:
£25.70 for Rog
£24.66 for Lynne
£17.61 for Derek
£14.08 for Colin
£13.02 for me
I think I've demonstrated my dyslexia here before so if someone could check my maths I'd appreciate it : O )
I've paid the charges on my credit card so the package should be here tomorrow, once I've cut it and packaged it up I'll let you all know.
Sorry this didn't work out better, would of saved us all a few quid.
Matt

Hi Matthew,
What a shame, I owe Colin A balance so If I pay you for both. He will owe me. A cheque in the post?
Roger was mentioning another charge which I assume was my share of the American delivery and postage. I dont know what that was.

Hi Colin,
You're not wrong! Shipping in the UK will still be free thankfully.
Cheque is fine and saves on PayPal fees too or you can make a bank transfer if that's easier for you.
I think we still owe Roger for the American postage plus Lynne and I owe for the balance of the fabric cost too.
Looking forward to seeing your mid design, sounds pretty cool.

Derek,
Thank you for the details on your new tarp. This walking pole and string is intriguing to me, as I do everything in my head, this could really help with visualization.
I especially liked the way the trekking poles are being used. When I looked at Tim's photobucket, it really got the gears turning in my head, as I have been trying to figure out a design to use my short length trekking poles right side up.
Your last paragraph sums up why I finally came up of hiding, though I am nowhere near using cuben. My initial designs will be created in soft tyvec, if I can manage to find the right one. I want them to be useable mockups. I have gained allot of starting knowledge from this community since I joined, I have just been too shy to post, as I have received bad treatment on other forums. This community is really a model of civility that the internet once had when it was in it's infancy.
-Aaron

Hi Matt - I can make a (free) paypal payment for £26.66. but I need your email address for receipt of funds? PM? Trust this is OK. If not I will ask bank to make a transfer, although last time I tried it they wanted £10 to send £10 to India.

Hi Rog - what's the final cost for the cuben inclusive of any shortfall you face due to the (bungy jumping) dollar to pound rates. Thanks for everything!

I look forward to receiving it and realising more space in the great outdoors. Space is at a premium! I chucked out the TV recently (refusing to fund a £6m per annum chat show host and millionaire executive pensions)and as a result I've now found space at home!

Aaron - "This community is really a model of civility that the internet once had when it was in it's infancy."
I agree, I remember the Well, which attracted some great thinking and writing. Backpackinglight has much merit! So informative!

The roll we received weighs 318 grams
Or 35 grams per linear meter
It is 1.39m wide
Thus it weighs 25 grams per square meter

Or 25/28.35 x 1/(1.09*1.09) = 0.74 oz per square yard

Well fellow Brits,
Parcelfarce have lived up to their name and reputation once again and even though I've paid the duty a "glitch" meant it didn't get routed for delivery... I'm told it'll be Monday so fingers crossed.
Have a good weekend,
Matt

Just a quick update;
Material received, cut (what a nightmare!) and distributed. I just need a final figure from Rog and his postal address so I can ship his material.
By the way, thanks to Tim for the open scissors trick, it worked a treat, shame I didn't have more space so I could lay out the complete roll as it would have made it so much easier.
If you're reading this Tim, do you have any tips on joining cuben? You seem to have worked with it a fair bit and your work speaks for it's self. Does, Aquaseal and 6-8 stitches per inch sound about right to you? Of course, anyone else's input is also gratefully received.
Matt

What is aquaseal? Is it available in Britain? I was looking at Steve Evans site www.suluk46.com. He was using loctite/ hysol U 09fl a urethane 2 part adhesive to bond cuben to cuben. I cannot find it in the UK but I have emailed locktite.uk about it.
Although expert people seem to sew and glue. I am tempted to think that sewing and glueing are so different that glueing alone or sewing alone might theoretically be better. I mean that under stress I would expect the glue to fail before the stitches came under stress and the glue would fail quicker because of the extra stress from the row of stitch holes. I cannot see that the glue adversely affects the stitches but it seems to me that if you must glue the time for stitching is past. This is theory only does anyone else agree?

As I was typing this my cuben arrived thanks Matthew and everyone!

Glad it arrived safely especially with the post the way it is at the moment.
I've found Aquaseal online and I'm fairly sure I've seen it in outdoor shops. If you hear back from Loctite then let me know I'd be interested in what they say, I'd be mortified if my tarp came apart now I spent so much on the cuben.
Thanks for the sleuthing,
Matt

I found it at a dive shop.

I did some test strips.

Pretty much glues everything to everything.

Cuben to cuben, cuben to silnylon or any nylon,
Tyvek to tyvek.

The glue bond is stronger than any of the materials.

The only thing it did not stick well to was polycro.
It would stick to it and glue it, but under a hard strain would pull off.

From what I understand its the same thing as the locktight stuff you mentioned.

That said, it is really too thick IMO to work with easily. Its very thick. Needs to be about the consitancy of regular glue.

Takes about 8 hours to dry.

Very tough stuff.

If anybody knows where to find a thinner glue that is the same material, please let me know.

Edited by tammons on 11/05/2009 07:06:44 MST.

From reading the instructions it sounds like you can use acetone (nail varnish remover) or 99% isopropyl alcohol to thin it. It's possible thinning it would change the curing time but it's worth a go.

I thought about thinning it. Iso alcohol would be better.

Acetone would probably damage plastics, coatings, and probably sil.

i haven't used any glue on it yet. I sewed with long stitches (longest my machine makes) and then used the mylar tape from quest over the seams. However the fabric is very tough and i am not sure the stitching needs reinforcing, other than regular seam sealing. I can't be sure of this but it is my suspicion.

-Tim

Thanks for sharing your experience Tim, I think I'll glue it anyway for my own peace of mind, belt and braces and all that : O )

Gluing cuben fiber and other things ...

regarding gluing plus stitching:
Jon at Cuben Tech said that adhesives work well with their products under shear stress but not peel stress. Jon suggested the combo of gluing plus stiching with a long stitch length (5-6 per inch ... 2-2.5 per cm).

I've had similar experience with peel stress on a different material (silnylon) with a different adhesive (GE Silicon Sealant II) and have good success mitigating that problem

regarding AquaSeal with polycryo: I did a little test using AquaSeal to bond polycryo to fabric (uncoated nylon) with the nylon sandwiched between polycryo layers like this:

The polycryo contacts the nylon along a 1/2 inch (1.25 cm) strip and glue joint was 3 inches (7.5 cm) long. The joint failed before either material did but it took a pretty good tug before it failed. I don't have anything quantitative on that but I feel that joint might work for things like joining a polycryo bivy bottom to a fabric top.

regarding loctite/ hysol U 09fl a urethane 2 part adhesive:
I have not used it but did look into it and have seen it in it's tube(s). Comes in a double barreled syringe much like two part epoxy you can buy at a hardware store ... except that the syringe is built to be used in a gun with a mixing nozzle and does not include the shafts you'd press on to eject the two parts. Product doc says that it has 10 minute open time. I was put off by the combo of needing to buy a gun ($$$) (or try to make something) and the relatively short open time(which I felt was too short for me working alone to eject, mix and apply to a long seam).

regarding AquaSeal: It is a one part adhesive and has a much longer open time. A couple short seams I've tested failed easily with peel stress but not with shear stress. I need to come up with something quantitative on that. I have hopes for the above mentioned sandwich joint.

there is also double sided tape: $$$$ though and I have not tried any.

Edited by jcolten on 11/05/2009 10:18:53 MST.

I use the hysoU-09FL and the 0.33 material will fail before the bond - I haven't tested the heavier weight so I can't comment on the stuff you guys bought. You can use the gun and mixing nozzle if you like, but I just push the stuff out with my fingers or a pen, mix it with a toothpick, and spread it with a paint brush.


Sub 2 oz Cuben Tarp

I made a video of it if you're interested.

I tried the cuben tape from quest and did not like it.

If you watch steve's video you can see hysol U 09fl is quite runny not at all thick. Steve Have you tried any peel test?

Matt, Roger, I've just taken delivery of the cuben, many, many, many thanks. I'm delighted! Definitely a gold tan with shine.

I've done a bit of surfing and it seems as though Aquaseal is called Aquasure in the UK and widely available; it's about £7 for a 28 gram tube including delivery. I've taken the plunge and bought some so I'll let you know how I get on.

You'd be better off using Seamgrip than Aquaseal. Aquaseal has a relatively crappy response to sheer.

You can thin either Seamgrip or Aquaseal with Cotol-240. Acetone won't really work.

You can also use another McNett product, UV-Aquaseal for emergency repairs. It only works when it's dry, and it cures in 10 seconds in sunlight, but it's the best for quick repairs.

I suspect they recommend a combination of sewing and gluing because I do. It's just a lot easier, cheaper and faster than any other method to make complex shapes. But sewing alone is a recipe for disaster.

The whole point of the Hysol guns is that they mix it for you. So you lay down the bead, bond the material and it's done.

Whoa, I go AWOL for a year or so and look what I miss. Is there any excess or is the whole order wrapped up and sold off?

if you contact cubic tech they may still have some. They did a few weeks back, i took 9m of it.

-Tim