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Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone? on 09/13/2009 05:09:34 MDT Print View

Hi all,
long time lurker first time poster to the MYOG forum...
I don't know if anyone is interested but at 255 grams (9oz.) I cannot resist taking this on my trips. I have baked pizza, chocolate muffins, bread, etc... with this and it is always terrific!
I use silicon baking trays and cups and mainly use 'add water only' cake packs and my own recipe for bread and pizza dough.

The sides are aluminium, the reflector and tray are titanium and the 'nuts and bolts' are spokes.
As you can see it folds up small and I am happy enough with the weight...Ti & Alu Reflector OvenFront viewReflector Oven stripped down255 grams (9 oz.) Complete

Any questions, ideas, thoughts?

Cheers, Dan.

Jason Klass
(jasonklass) - F

Locale: Parker, CO
Oven on 09/13/2009 08:25:00 MDT Print View

Dan, great design! I don't understand how it works. Does it use the Sun's rays or do you put some kind of stove in there?

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone on 09/13/2009 08:59:49 MDT Print View

Good work, Dan. It's probably more efficient than aluminum, since titanium should hold the heat better. But how do you do pizza in that thing--little pizzettes? By the way, I love the little pizza delivery car in the photo.

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: Oven on 09/13/2009 09:25:21 MDT Print View

OK I'm curious too. It looks good but I have no idea how it works. Do you put it in or near a fire, or is there a stove built in, or do you put a little stove inside it? Or does it actually close up and then you put it on top of a stove?

Michael Crosby
(djjmikie) - MLife

Locale: Ky
"Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone?" on 09/13/2009 13:12:54 MDT Print View

Great little Reflector Oven. How about some plans?
You set it near a wood fire.

Here is some info.
Mike

Edited by djjmikie on 09/13/2009 13:17:38 MDT.

Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Sorry Guys, should have explained..... on 09/13/2009 16:16:18 MDT Print View

Sorry guys...

Yes, you place it in front of a fire, it only needs to be small, I was staggered when I first tried an aluminium prototype, it does not need a large fire....
I will draw up the dimensions if anyone is interested.
The little titanium tray in the picture is about 4" x 9" from memory, two pizzas that size is heaps for me!
Thanks all for the comments, I am glad you like it.

Any other questions, ask away!

Cheers, Dan.

Cheers for the link Mike, I have not seen that one and it explains it all perfectly.

Edited by heeler on 09/13/2009 17:07:23 MDT.

Jason Klass
(jasonklass) - F

Locale: Parker, CO
Ah! on 09/13/2009 16:28:16 MDT Print View

Thanks Dan, that makes sense now.

Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Thanks Jason... on 09/13/2009 17:08:28 MDT Print View

Thanks Jason, and thanks for your site, great videos, great info.

Dan

Keith Selbo
(herman666) - F

Locale: Northern Virginia
Re: Ah! on 09/13/2009 20:51:31 MDT Print View

Nice looking project Dan. What do you mean you were "staggered" when you first used aluminum?

Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Staggered.... on 09/13/2009 23:58:21 MDT Print View

Hi Keith,

I was staggered at how small a fire you can get away with and at how well it baked breads and cakes. a small camp fire, say 1' in diameter is plenty big enough, a fist sized damper (flour salt and beer - bread dough) cooks through in approx. 15 minutes, drizzled with butter... mmmmmmm! small pizza's of 6" diameter, cooked in 5-10 mins. You may like to turn the tray during the process to get an even browning of the item.

If you put reflector oven into google you will have plenty to read
Cheers, Dan.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone? on 09/14/2009 08:44:29 MDT Print View

I love that a great trail oven is made by a man named BAKER! Life is great!

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 09/14/2009 12:23:48 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Staggered.... on 09/14/2009 08:55:34 MDT Print View

So, Dan, when are you making these for sale? :-)

Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
For Sale? on 09/16/2009 04:14:04 MDT Print View

Thanks all for the comments, I have not got any plans to make these for sale, I will over the next few days put together a pdf of the plans and you can all make your own...

I hope to see all improvements listed here on BPL! :)

Cheers,

Dan

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
I like it on 09/17/2009 12:16:19 MDT Print View

Nice work, Dan.

> It's probably more efficient than aluminum, since titanium should hold the heat better

Gary, I'm not sure I follow you. The heat capacity of Ti is 0.52J/gK, and aluminium is 0.89J/gK. I suspect that the relative thermal conductivities might have an effect (22W/mK vs 235W/mK).

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
"Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone?" on 09/17/2009 12:38:37 MDT Print View

@Kevin: What I was thinking did relate to the lower thermal conductivity of titanium. I figured that titanium wouldn't allow the heat to escape as readily as aluminum would. But then I realized (after I posted) that sides are in fact aluminum, which might somewhat negate the heat retention of the titanium in the back. Probably all this means nothing, and I would think the device should work quite well. Great MYOG.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: "Reflector Oven... Pizza and Muffins anyone?" on 09/17/2009 16:17:08 MDT Print View

Guys

Thermal mass and thermal conductivity have little to nothing to do with it.
This oven works by radiation and reflection. The better the reflectivity in the IR band, the better it works. In fact, aluminium would probably be better than titanium for the reflector, except that the Al foil would be much weaker.

Cheers

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
an absorptive and conductive tray may be useful... on 09/18/2009 09:54:47 MDT Print View

> Thermal mass and thermal conductivity have little to nothing to do with it.

I'm aware that the thing relies on reflecting heat, but I suspected Gary was referring to the tray. You want the tray to be absorptive and conductive, so that it can absorb reflected heat and spread it out under the things it's cooking, such as pizza, preventing hot spots at the focal point. In which case, I'd suggest that thermal mass and conductivity are quite relevant.

It might be interesting to do some ray tracing analysis to see if a reflector can be devised that deliberately provides multiple foci over a central area to allow the food to be cooked evenly. You might also propose a central 'oven' chamber that sits at the focus and is absorptive and conductive to provide a more even heating than will result from the one-sided reflected heat (although the fire itself may heat the other side well enough for even cooking...).

Edited by captain_paranoia on 09/18/2009 09:56:16 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: an absorptive and conductive tray may be useful... on 09/18/2009 16:32:23 MDT Print View

> It might be interesting to do some ray tracing analysis to see if a reflector can be devised

The problem there is that the fire is a very large diffuse source. All ray tracing would do for you would be to confirm that the reflected energy is equally spread out. Hey - it works ...

Cheers

Dan Baker
(heeler) - MLife

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Aluminium vs Titanium in terms of Reflector Oven Use. on 09/18/2009 21:36:46 MDT Print View

Hi again all,

I made my initial trial version from Aluminium and it worked great, biggest problem (that Ti addressed) was storage and transport. The rear reflector is 535mm long and 300mm wide (approx) storage and transport involved a large sheet of aluminium as opposed to the rolled Ti, I toyed with the idea of hinging at the centre but have not tried it out.
I have used both side-by-side and have found no difference in cook time or reflectivity. The main concern with some reflector ovens is the need to rotate the dish during the cooking process to provide an even bake and even browning of the food.
With both units I turned a 'bread' (read- lump of coagulated mess) once during a 10-15 minute bake time for exactly the same result- uniform and even 'cookness'
So to summarise my long-windedness...

Ti and Al versions produced identical cooking results.
Ti is lighter and easier to store, carry and assemble.
Ti spokes and sides would make for a lighter oven, however Al sides give the unit a great rigidity for a negligible addition to weight and storage room.

Does any of that make sense?
Any further questions?

Cheers, Dan

Mark Andersen
(MarkA) - F
Integrate w/ grill concepts? on 09/24/2009 10:15:50 MDT Print View

I really like the idea of this oven for providing some flexibility in camp cooking. I am also planning to make myself the 1 oz. grill described here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=4446

However, I was wondering whether you could replace the baking shelf in this oven with a series of closely-spaced spokes or rods, similar to a regular oven rack. If they were spaced closely enough, they would support muffin papers, lumps of dough, or whatever.

Most importantly, you could then use those spokes and the titanium sheet in a different configuration, as a grill. Specifically, it seems that you could place the spokes vertically across the front of the oven as it's shown in Dan's pictures, then lay the oven down with the concave side up, stabilized by rocks or whatever, with the spokes forming the grill. Having the curved titanium bottom to reflect and concentrate heat would probably make the grill very effective with a small fire, and would essentially form a fire pan, which would make leave-no-trace easier.. You might have to roll the titanium sheet the opposite way from the reflector oven configuration, to avoid impacting the reflectivity with soot in the grill configuration, but it seems like this would work easily enough as the whole sheet seems to roll easily. Maybe it's also functional in this configuration (or with slight modification, such as moving the aluminum sides closer together on the reflector) as a wood stove over which you could boil water...? If so, it seems like that covers just about every cooking option from your home kitchen, short of a microwave, and doesn't add much weight over Dan's original concept.