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Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Re: Na on the MSR on 09/11/2009 12:51:13 MDT Print View

Tim: "MSR states that the floor is 50 inches wide. That a crock of crap."

There's been a lot of trashing of MSR for this, when in reality MSR does not claim the floor to be 50" wide. Will stated that in his BPL review, but that was based on a misunderstanding of the info on MSR's site. Here's the picture in question that has caused so much confusion:

CR2 floorplan

The 50" is referring to the width at the end of the tent. Not at the middle. The diagram even shows the floor narrowing significantly from 50" in the middle, while not mentioning the narrowest width. Notice how the left floor edge actually disappears under the sleeper. The lines that run parallel at 50" wide the entire way are the roof lines.

Edited by dandydan on 09/11/2009 12:54:07 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Tarptent vs MSR on 09/11/2009 12:53:50 MDT Print View

That's the roof line. Notice the left bag crossing over 'it.' MSR claims the width is 50" - nothing else to read into it but false advertising.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Re: Tarptent vs MSR on 09/11/2009 13:09:50 MDT Print View

"As far as the CR2 being tougher, please elaborate."
I never said it was tougher. I just said a 10,000mm floor can stand up to more abrasion/wear than a 1200mm floor before it is no longer waterproof.

"Dan said "The double rainbow does the opposite, starting off at 53" wide but narrowing down to about 25". "

This is absolutely incorrect. The DR is 52" wide from front to back and the single Rainbow is 38" front to rear.b>

You're mis-understanding what I said. Yes the DR is 52" wide from front to back, but I'm talking about more than just floor area here. The sidewalls of the Rainbow tents slope inward significantly, so while the floor single Rainbow is 38" wide, the tent is only 18" wide at the roof. Here's a picture to illustrate:

RainbowTT

Because the walls lean in, this gives the tent a lot less interior volume than the CR2. This is significant because you need this space if you are going to have two people moving around, sitting up, playing cards etc in the tent. Because the Rainbow narrows so much, you need to be in the center of the tent to sit up. You can't have two sleepers side by side sitting up in their bags in the Rainbow.

The walls of the CR2 do not slope inward, but rather they actually slope outward which gives the tent a lot of interior room. This makes the entire floor area more usable.

cr2 interior volume

Edited by dandydan on 09/11/2009 13:10:25 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Tarptent vs MSR on 09/11/2009 13:14:00 MDT Print View

"I never said it was tougher. I just said a 10,000mm floor can stand up to more abrasion/wear than a 1200mm floor before it is no longer waterproof."

Not exactly. You are confusing hydrostatic head with the thickness of the floor. The two are not the same. You can have a thicker more abrasion resistant floor that is not waterproof. The new floors in the Hubba and CR series are much thinner than previous Hubba versions, although MSR claims they have a higher hydrostatic head.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Waterproofing on 09/11/2009 13:35:53 MDT Print View

True enough....you're right in this regard. A waterproof rating that is 8 times higher doesn't mean it can handle 8 times more abrasion before it is no longer waterproof.

I would guess that the MSR floor can handle more abrasion than silnylon before it is no longer waterproof, but that is pure speculation.

Edited by dandydan on 09/11/2009 13:38:53 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Coated vs Impregnated on 09/11/2009 15:18:25 MDT Print View

Hi Scott

> the silicone impregnation would be much longer lived than a PU coating because of the
> impregnation process. It can't peel or be abraded off like a coating can.

This is a bit more complex than it sounds.

The double-sided coating on silnylon really is effectively an impregnation: I like to describe it as 'fabric-reinforced silicone sheet' rather than as a coated fabric.
The 'coating' on a PU-coated fabric may be a surface layer of PU which can peel off - we have seen plenty of those in the past. But some of the modern PU coatings are getting very close to being an impregnation instead. Some of the silicone/PU fabrics are in that class.

Apart from that, the PU polymer is far tougher than the silicone polymer, and the silicone polymer may be very slightly soluble in water, especially soapy water.

Trade-offs.

Cheers

Tim Testa
(MichaelRedbeard) - F
Re: Re: Na on the MSR on 09/11/2009 18:37:38 MDT Print View

.

Edited by MichaelRedbeard on 09/11/2009 23:24:02 MDT.

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
head room on 09/11/2009 19:10:45 MDT Print View

I am just wondering who really needs all of the head room in a tent? I am 6'5" with a long torso and have never found a tent that has enough head room for me to sit up in, but then again I really don't want to. It is not the Holiday Express Inn. I look for a tent that it is long enough to be in while sleeping that that has the 'roof' enough off of me so that I don't feel trapped, suffocated and still have a little bit of room to move around in. If I wanted a placed to read, play cards, and do charades for the squirrels I would have stayed at home or bought one of those 8#+ tents. When it is dark, you go to sleep. When it is light, you wake up. And your personal light source helps push the either end of the darkness.