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Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Non-Stick Ti Pots - Worth the weight? on 08/29/2009 14:39:33 MDT Print View

I'm currently researching Ti pots and I'm having trouble deciding if the non-stick coatings are worth the weight. I'm looking at 1.3L Evernew pots since I'm usually camping with my wife.

According to EvernewAmerica.com, the regular 1.3L 'ultralight' pot and lids weighs 130g (4.6oz) for the pot and lid. The non-stick version of this pot weighs in at 170g (6.0oz).

My normal usage for this pot will be boiling water, cooking pasta, couscous etc. but occasionally I might want to fry stuff (ie. if I catch a fish or pack pancakes).

So what are peoples thoughts on the coating? Does it work? Does it hold up over time? I've read the reviews on this site and most seem favourable but seem to question how long the coating will last for. Is raw titanium a pain to clean?

Thanks guys!

Edited by dandydan on 08/29/2009 14:41:15 MDT.

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Ti pots on 08/29/2009 15:59:46 MDT Print View

I have the regular 0.6 L Evernew pot and the Snow Peak 700ml uncoated pot but have never had a non stick ti cook pot, so I can't say how well holds up, but Ti in and of itself doesn't do well for cooking. Titanium doesn't transfer heat very evenly and tends to burn things. If you want to do real cooking I would recommend going with either Anodized Aluminum or at least a non stick pot.

Edited by Mocs123 on 08/29/2009 16:00:17 MDT.

Bruce Tolley
(btolley) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Evernew Titanium Non Stick on 08/29/2009 16:11:47 MDT Print View

I use the Evernew titanium frying pan with non stick coating for frying eggs, pancakes, steaks, stirfry, fish. (I like to eat well on the trail :))

The non stick coating works fine in conjunction with a little olive oil and I cook with a teflon spork or a little wooden spatula to avoid scratching the surface. As to its longevity, my pan is on its 4th season now, and the non stick surface is intact.

What you have to watch out for is heat distribution and heat control. The titanium does not work as well as aluminum as a cooking surface, say for example compared with MSR Blacklite. For example when I want to cook a thick bacon wrapped steak, I take the MSR pan.

If you plan on catching and frying a lot of large (thick) trout over a multiday trip, you might want to consider a heavier pan.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Wouldn't know... on 08/29/2009 16:12:36 MDT Print View

I just boil water to make tea or dump into a freezer bag meal! For which plain Ti is just fine!

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Heat Transfer on 08/29/2009 16:38:39 MDT Print View

I wonder if using a taller caldera cone to raise the pot an inch or so further from the stove would even out the heat for easier frying? There's a great YouTube vid on making your own cone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VerP7-aiEBw

Right now I have a Pocket Rocket which does a very poor job of spreading out the flame but I have a FeatherFire alcohol stove coming in the mail. I think this stove, plus a homemade, slighter taller caldera cone and 1.3L non-stick Ti Evernew might be a nice setup that allows me to fry on occasion.

So does anyone fry in an untreated Ti pot? I don't fry much but I'd like to have the option. I don't mind doing a little scrubbing after dinner, but if it's going to make frying impossible then that's no good.

Edited by dandydan on 08/29/2009 16:45:42 MDT.

Elena Lee
(lenchik101) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest (USA)
i vote for non-stick on 08/31/2009 11:07:24 MDT Print View

I have a 1.3 Evernew Ti pot with non-stick coating. I've had it for 6 years now. This pot held up pretty well. Non-stick doesn't mean you can cook in it, and it won't stick like in your reg. cookware; but rather that it will clean much easier, which i definitely appreciate. this pot has been thru many trips, and once even put directly over fire. i eat directly from the pot, and i use the titanium spork, which is probably not recommended for the coating but works for me. you would experience some scratches and scrapes over time, but it doesn't change the functionality of the pot (non stick coating doesn't come off). I think cooking for two warrants the non stick, since you are already dividing the weight btwn the two and you are cooking larger volumes, hence easier to clean. i bring a mini sponge with me and just add some water, scrub, and rinse. i don't use soap, sometimes some sand and mud to get the grease off.

Elena Lee
(lenchik101) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest (USA)
fish and pancakes on 08/31/2009 11:12:21 MDT Print View

actually, i tried pancakes in this pot, and it was a disaster. perhaps you need lots of oil to make it work. but i gave up on pancakes. also if fish, i'd rather wrap it in foil and cook either over fire, or bury in hot coals and cook that way.

Willem Jongman
(willem) - F - M
Ti vs aluminium and non stick on 08/31/2009 13:26:32 MDT Print View

It was perhaps not for nothing that Trangia changed from Ti to a new thinner aluminium for their new ultralight series 25 and 27. These are even marginally lighter than their Ti predecessors, spread the heat mnore evenly, and apparently save on fuel. For the cooking pot the hard anodized version is fine, and is cleaned easily. For the frying pan I went for the non stick version, and that is very good indeed. On the Trangia delicate frying is helped by the greater distance from the flame for the frying pan compared to the cooking pot. I too like to eat real food.
The bad news is that I know of no other and lighter alcohol stove/pot system that is any good with frying. The Trangia 27 really is heavy, unfortunately, even in its UL form. The Clikstand is a lighter Trangia in many respects, but not with frying. Frying pans dont fit its windscreen, and neither can you increase the distance between flame and pan.

Edited by willem on 08/31/2009 13:28:10 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Thanks on 08/31/2009 23:01:19 MDT Print View

Thanks for all the advice and experiences. It's very helpful.

Pancakes are a tough meal to do in any pot....or even a frying pan, when camping. I had some while camping a few weeks ago and they weren't that great. I don't think I"m going to bother with them in the future. That doesn't leave me with too many hot breakfast options though besides instant oatmeal.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Thanks on 09/01/2009 07:21:14 MDT Print View

A super slick non-stick frypan is what one needs for pancakes...with a great recipe :-D

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
backcountry baking on 09/01/2009 13:13:24 MDT Print View

Well, if you're truly interested in baking in general, or poaching fish, consider this widget:

http://www.bakepacker.com/

I do not have one, but it looks interesting, and I've heard a couple of positive comments about them. It is, however, another 4 ounces to carry. But it would remove the concerns about the durability of non-stick surfaces, while still letting you do much more than freezer-bag cooking.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: backcountry baking on 09/01/2009 14:24:34 MDT Print View

Dean it is pretty easy to make a Fauxbaker to fit the smaller pots most of us carry. (Their UL version is still for say a 2L pot)
http://www.trailcooking.com/thefauxbaker

Dean F.
(acrosome) - MLife

Locale: Back in the Front Range
Re: Re: backcountry baking on 09/02/2009 04:37:39 MDT Print View

So it won't fit in, say, a 1.3L Evernew? Interesting.

The Fauxbaker is brilliant! I'm sure it works, but does it work as efficiently as the heat pipe array of the bakepacker? Hmm. Sounds like a BPL technical article waiting to happen... :o)

Random Thought: If you made the Fauxbaker out of titanium it could double as the firepan for a Tri-Ti caldera cone in woodburning mode.

Edited by acrosome on 09/02/2009 04:42:30 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: backcountry baking on 09/02/2009 07:30:14 MDT Print View

What it comes down to is how wide your pot is, on whether or not the UL BP works :-) Some pots will be that bag, often though the UL pots are narrow and tall, where to use the UL BP you need wide and shallow. So get out that tape measure ;-)

And hey, a DIY project is fun. Basically the point of it is to create steam and keep the food out of the water. So one can come up with many ways to do it - using a platform or even a mug in a pot.

KYLE PARKER
(swiggydig@gmail.com) - F

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
re: non-stick ti on 09/02/2009 08:31:41 MDT Print View

I've used both and prefer uncoated ti. The non-stick isn't exactly non-stick in ti and you have to worry about overheating it and using non-abrasives on it. Also, non-stick coatings can emit noxious fumes when overheated. I have cooked on uncoated ti and scortched food and just burn it off in the fire or rub it off with sand.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Dried Pasta on 09/02/2009 12:05:10 MDT Print View

What about cooking stuff like dehydrated pasta (ie. Sidekicks) and stuff like couscous. This is probably what I cook the most. I'm not sure if this would create a sticky mess with untreated Ti or not.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Dried Pasta on 09/02/2009 13:59:30 MDT Print View

Couscous isn't an issue as all you need to do is boil water, take off stove and add in the dry items. That won't stick - especially if you use oil.

As for actual cooking in the pot, Sidekicks, Lipton/Knorr sidedishes, etc - yes, you can have major fry on's with untreated Ti, Al or steel pots. Non stick or hard anodized Al is your better bet when you are doing real cooking, where you have a thick meal.

Bailey Gin
(pugslie) - F

Locale: SLO County
Re: Heat Transfer on 09/03/2009 11:30:16 MDT Print View

by Dan Durston (dandydan)
"So does anyone fry in an untreated Ti pot? I don't fry much but I'd like to have the option. I don't mind doing a little scrubbing after dinner, but if it's going to make frying impossible then that's no good."

I made eggs and steak this morn using a untreated Ti pan with a good dose of olive oil on a .125" (8 gauge) 5"x5" solid copper heat diffuser plate on a SVEA 123 stove running at just above simmering mode. The pan still had hot spots (uneven heat transfer). Still got burnt eggs thou not as bad as before. With the steak cooking, you kinda can see where the hots spots were by how the oil just "burned" there. Clean-up was defintely easier having used the diffuser plate. The thing weighs 8ozs so that defeats the purpose of having titanium cookware. A coated Ti pan might have done better.

b.gin

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Tough Call on 09/03/2009 20:18:56 MDT Print View

I'm still mulling this decision over. My current 1.5L hard anodized aluminum MSR pot/lid/lifter weighs 303g (10.7 oz) and an Evernew 1.3L Ti setup would weigh just 130g (4.6oz) which is a lot of weight saved. The non-stick is 170g (6.0oz).

That's an awful lot of extra weight I'm carrying right now. I'm trying to decide if I should go with untreated Ti and just take the aluminum pot for trips when I'm going to cook a lot, or if I should buy the non-stick Ti and try to do everything with that.

Edited by dandydan on 09/04/2009 17:13:39 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Tough Call on 09/04/2009 07:07:41 MDT Print View

Dn, there is nothing wrong with having multiple pot setups. In all honesty, it makes life easier. You have the plain Ti for trips where every ounce counts, where all you do is boil water. You keep the HAA set for when you want to do cooking and the miles are easier!

(Of course this advice is coming from someone who has at least 15 pot sets currently being used.....)