has any one used a neo air with a quilt?
im thinking about doing so and want advice before i invest.

I've used my Nunatak Specialist with a NeoAir and also used them in an MLD Soul Sidezip bivy (large). Works fine for me.

Edited by Quoddy on 08/20/2009 06:23:41 MDT.

I use my neo air with a Nunatak Arc AT quilt. I strap the lower strap under the neo air, leave the upper strap unstrapped. Works great for me. I'm mostly a side sleeper, but roll from one side to the other, with short bursts on my back, throughout the night. I've got the regular size neo air.

Would it work with a Large Neo Air that is 25 inches wide? Also this may come off as being pretty stupid, but I have never explored bivy sacks as an option...do any bivies come with a screen on top to cover your face from bugs? I do not think I could handle bugs crawling on my face at night? On the note of bivy sacks, do they make any 2 person sacks? Thanks ahead of time.

Tim... A quilt would work with a large NeoAir, but not in any known single bivy. Oware makes a good double bivy... see bivys at the site http://www.owareusa.com/

Most, but not all, bivys have a no-see-um mesh in the head/face area. Since on the photo I posted above it's unzipped, it's on the left side as you look at it. This particular one gives lots of ventilation, but can be zipped closed if conditions warrant.

I have been using my NeoAir with an Ultra 20 all summer. The Neo is not as comfortable on bare skin as my BA IAC pads but it is not bad.

Raymond down to what temp does that setup keep you cozy - Ultra 20 + NeoAir inside tent? What tent is that in the picture?

How do you find the Ultra 20 for width and in general? As a side/back/stomach sleeper/tosser, a wide enough bag is a big help. I'm trying to decide between a bag and a quilt to replace old bags my wife and I sold before a move. My wife and I plan to use 25 in. wide NeoAir Large pads (or anything just as good that comes on the market). In the meantime we're using old, not so comfortable but trusty 1 in. inflatable pads and Gossamer Gear foam pads.

We tried an REI Sub Kilo from REI-Outlet last winter and found it way too narrow to accomodate extra layers and way below suggested temp range (which I've heard is a problem with many REI bags).

Edited by mountainwalker on 08/18/2009 21:15:17 MDT.

Yes, what tent is that in the picture?

Like Raymond, I use a NeoAir with an Ultra 20 quilt. I use a double wall tent (MSR Carbon Reflex 2).

This setup works good....I sleep on my side, back and stomach and usually switch positions every few hours. I have no trouble getting the quilt to 'seal' around me. I'm 6'0" and 165lbs and the quilt seems plenty wide.

I'm not too sure what temps I can get down to with this setup because it's all new this season and I haven't been out in cold weather yet. It was 35F last night and I was very toasty. I had to pull the quilt part way down because I was too hot. This setup will definitely be warm under 30F.

And yeah, the NeoAir on bare skin isn't so great. It's do-able but I prefer to at least wear a t-shirt. I slept with no shirt last night but I got a bit hot in the night and once you're a bit sweaty you start to stick to the NeoAir so it's more comfortable to have a shirt on.

Edited by dandydan on 08/19/2009 00:06:27 MDT.

i have a few new things to ask...
would using a short neo and a quilt be bad
what are the chances of a neo poping
how do you give a frameless pack rigidness(sp?)with out a closed cell

The tent is the latest generation of Seedhouse SL2. That was a rainy day at Limber Pine Bench near Mt San Gorgonio in California.

The best way to tell you about my findings with the Ultra 20 is to give a link to a review I just wrote of it for BGT.

http://tinyurl.com/kp5h97

By the way, the cold night was in the TT Rainbow.

Edited by rayestrella on 08/20/2009 10:20:39 MDT.

I don't think using a quilt with a short NeoAir would present any problems beyond the normal ones you encounter with a short NeoAir. The NeoAir is a lot thicker than most lightweight pads people are using, so I suspect that using a 3/4 length version will give your legs the feeling of hanging off a cliff. At 2.5" thick, your legs won't touch down for a while. That might keep you warmer but I think it would be a wierd sensation unless you piled up enough gear under your feet so they are relatively level with the rest of your body.

Popping? I dunno....my dog was walking on mine with it's relatively sharp claws and it didn't pop....but I was a bit nervous. I don't think there's been too many reports of these popping. I doubt it's much worse than the other Therm-a-Rests. I do have a Prolite 3 at home with 8 patches on it thanks to my cat sharping it's claws on it.

Regarding frameless packs, I use a 2009 Jam2 which is frameless but it has a foam pad in the back. I think this is great when you aren't creating a fake frame with a pad. I've used my Jam2 with a Prolite 3 rolled in a cylinder and I don't find that to be any more comfortable than just skipping this. Some people do roll the NeoAir into a cylinder and blow a few breathes in to create a frame. Supposedly this works well, but I think it's unneccessary if you pack the pack well and you have a pack with a foam panel in the back. If I didn't have the foam panel then I'd probably want to create a frame some how. As it is, I am EXTREMELY comfortable using my Jam2 without any sort of frame. I think the 2009 models are better than the earlier ones in this regard because the padding in the back is totally new. I was out hiking for a couple days recently with roughly a 20lbs load and I was in heaven. I couldn't have been more comfortable.

If your pack doesn't have a foam panel in the back, consider making one (got a donor RidgeRest?) and slipping it in. You could use that for your feet if you have a 3/4 NeoAir. With the Jam, just make sure your load is thoughtfully packed (ie. no pots jamming into your back) and tight (use the compression straps) and you'll be fine.

Edited by dandydan on 08/19/2009 22:41:21 MDT.

Raymond

Your review of the Ultra 20 is great, but there is an error in the temperature on the night you froze. The review says it was 30F/-7C. From the wording, I think it should read 30F/-1C.

Also, I think it's GoLite's intention that you need to be wearing some sort of insulation to realize it's 20F rating. I think this is what they are referring to when they call it part of a sleep system. Since any hiker who's camping in sub-zero weather will bring along some sort of insulation anyways (fleece? down sweater? etc), it makes sense to utilize this at night. I think with something like the Western Mountaineering Flash Jacket (9oz) and the Ultra 20 you could comfortably snooze at 20F. You might want some fleece pants too though (I have Helly Hansen ones that are mid-weight fleece and weigh just 5.5oz / 161g).

In case you haven't heard, GoLite's got 2 new quilts for us for 2010. There is a new 20F quilt that has more down than the departing Ultra 20 and then there's a new 40F quilt that packs less down (but still weighs the same) as the Ultra 20. I think they should keep the Ultra 20 but call it a 30F quilt.

Edited by dandydan on 08/19/2009 22:33:46 MDT.

hey Dan, what's the pack in your photo? (the red one)

Hi Dan,

Thanks for catching that temp mistake.

I think that the system that GoLite refers to is the fact that you need a pad. If they mean that it is good to 20 with clothes or insulating layers then they should quantify what they think is needed along with the quilt. That tosses the whole thing out the window as far as I am concerned. If I have to bring extra to sleep in it then I might as well bring the extra weight in a bag that I know works.

Yes I do bring extra insulation in sub-zero temps, but I do not consider 30 F sub-zero. (You may be talking Celsius, are you "over there"?)

I did see the new ones that are coming. It will be interesting to see how they are. They just got a new shipment of the Ultra 20s in though so I am not sure when the new ones are coming out.

I am hooked on quilts now, that's for sure.

Ashley: It's my wife's heavy (3.75lbs) 40L pack from MEC that's going to be replaced ASAP.

Hey EJ,

I've taken to quilts and don't think I'll be looking back any time soon! Unless you're set on you and your wife having separate bags/quits, FWIW, Nunatak makes a two-person 20 degree quilt (dual arc alpinist). You can get it overstuffed if you want it even warmer. [http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist_dual.htm]. They also make a more traditional headless bag, the dual alpinist, that might interest you. [http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/dual_alpinist.htm]. I have no financial interest in Nunatak, just a very satisfied customer.

Doug

Ha, I thought it looked pretty solid for an UL pack!

Thanks Douglas for the advice. Having sold our old heavier bags and being left only with a light car camping double bag for now, we're wide open to choose a new sleep system. Have to decide between down and synthetic, which isn't really a choice in the Northeast from where we moved due to all the wetness. The Sierra Nevada is quite dry by comparison.

Lean toward single quilts for the versatility to use mine if I'm on a group trip, and to allow us to sprawl out.

Which quilt temp rating would you get for 3 season Sierra Nevada, and which for winter Sierra Nevada? We have been lightening up over the last several years and have our clothing system pretty well dialed-in already.

For clothing we'd bring for 3 season we have Ibex light merino Woolies long johns and Patagonia R1 Hoodies, as well as Patagonia Houdini wind jackets and insulated caps and/or light Hind balaclavas (about 1.5 oz). We also carry Montbell Thermawrap Hoodies. We also have light rain jackets and at times light rain pants (Golite Reed pants). Light gloves as well. This should help us use a lighter sleep system, especially if we use the Thermawrap parkas as part of our sleep system.

For winter we take heavier insulation, including slightly heavier Ibex merino long johns, Arcteryx light softshell pants, Patagonia R1 Hoodies, Patagonia DAS Parkas and Patagonia Micropuff pants, and a warmer hat to layer over the Hind Balaclavas. Throw in heavier gloves as well. With insulation like that we should be able to use a lighter sleeping bag/quilt, but it would have to be large enough to accommodate the layers.

I tend to sleep warm early in the beginning of the night and only feel cooler closer to morning, and my wife sleeps colder but tends to retain heat better into the morning.

Hi E J,

Sorry, can't help you with Sierra Nevada, I've never backpacked there and no nothing of the temps. I've been strictly on the east coast so far. Sounds like you've got some great gear though!

Doug

EJ,

I am in the Sierra a lot, I will be back there at the end of September for our annual fall hike. For early spring and fall I have always brought a "light" 0 F bag (Mountainsmith Cypher)that I really thought of as a 10 F bag. I have seen it in the teens for these trips many nights. For winter trips I take an SD Cirque 0 F or a Moonstone Cassin Ridge -20 F bag depending on how high, or where I am going. It has hit -31 at Truckee! (Not when I was there.) Even in summer I brought a 20 F bag for many years and just started tempting fate a couple years ago with a MH Phantom 32, or lately a GoLite Ultra 20ish...

If my new Nunatak quilt works well this fall I may take the plunge and try a 0 F quilt with a Downmat 9 for winter. I think I will try some control tests in MN before I commit to the mountains though...

Edited by rayestrella on 08/24/2009 21:31:32 MDT.

Thought to post some pics of my small NeoAir and the GoLite Ultra 20° quilt. Its a toasty sleeping system, and very light.


I use a Rab Microlite Vest as pillow.


From the back, no problems to fit it in there.


From the back quite tight.


Tight from the top, fits me fine at 175 cm/ 60 kg.

I can definitely recommend that combo, both are Class 1 products.