1. Does the nylon sold in the Ray-Way quilt kit have any DWR on it? If so, how good is it i.e. how does it compare to Pertex and Momentum?

2. How does the Polarguard 3D compare to Climashield XP, Combat and Primaloft sport?

Thanks.

Use one that's about 5yrs old, not sure if they have changed up their shell fabric, but it seems equal to fabrics mentioned. Insulation is in great shape but have never overly compressed. Also use the Alpine upgrade (2 layer) this is my goto quilt for temps in the mid 30's/mid 20's in wet conditions.

if you are considering making a quilt there is no good reason to use Ray's kit over obtaining the supplies yourself. Other than i guess simplicity of not having to find supplies.

The 3d is made by same people who make climashield. It is their older stuff. Climashield is warmer for the weight and doesn't require as much stabilization which is nice since the yarn loops suck to do and they look crappy and homemade.

Ray's fabric is the same as any generic 1.1oz breathable with DWR. It is not as light or windproof as momentum.

The footbox on ray's quilt is also crap as it is just an envelope fold.

If you make a quilt shaped similar to the MLD ones you will be much happier.

-Tim

ray's quilt also lacks under-straps and snap/drawcord closure on the top.

-Tim

Not the warmest either....i know the hard way

Thanks, Tim. That's exactly what I thought.

I made one a couple years ago, slightly larger than I needed and with the alpine upgrade and the (discontinued) bristlecone brown fabric. It's warmer than warm, and I rarely use it myself. I think it would probably be warmer than the JRB down quilt I typically use, actually, but have not been out below 20F to test that. I loan it to others sometimes and it seems to accumulate condensation inside the shell, which throwing it on the granite for a while takes care of.

I really can't complain for the price. Never needed straps or whatever - the quilt wraps around me completely, including my head, and now that I've used quilts for a while the extra straps would be totally unnecessary.

I have a few Ray-Way style quilts, one from a kit, two based on the Ray-Way design. I find they all work fine, including the footbox. Yes, the footbox is simple, but this makes it simple to sew. And it is even adjustable after the fact if needed (rip a seam and re-sew).

You can same a little money over the kit if you work at it, as I did, but for your first quilt I'd just go with the kit. The instructions are great. After making the kit I made two more quilts, variously modified from the Ray-Way design for my purposes.

Tim,
Some strong opinions expressed toward Ray Way quilts, I will agree his choice of insulation as being older, fabric stabilization loops looking unprofessional, footbox envelop is awkward, but to trash another company when your basically a competitor is a bit harsh and unprofessional to say the least.

Granted Quilt designs have come a ways over the years, but Ray Way products were one of the first to offer an alternative to mainstream sleep systems with a do it yourself kit, have had little complaints on this end using, temp rating have been spot on and warm in some cold and wet places.

+ 1 to Jim's comments from me. Also it seems to me that Ray has done more than most to encourage MYOG.

Im going to have to agree with tim 100% on this one. Ray hasn't advanced his elementary designs at all in years, which i find very hard to justify. Of all people, he should recognize weight and bulk saved by reducing quilt size and adding features to make them more efficient. Its not terribly difficult to make a good footbox either. A 3D box whether square, circle, diamond, drawstring+stopper, or oval is a more comfortable, more weight efficient option than a taco-fold at a small added level of difficulty. Just because something works, doesnt mean it couldnt work better.

1.1 is a good fabric, but there are great benefits to momentum at a cost. I think Ray started using Climashield XP now, which is the best synthetic quilt insulation available. He keeps the change low key though, so people dont question his love of 3D or try to debate clo vs inches of loft as a measuring tool. He also doesn't reveal his weight of XP making comparisons difficult, although its probably around 3 oz/yd

I wouldn't consider calling the taco-fold 'crap' being too harsh either, even from the competitive perspective of Tim. I would call them competitors, but on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. hating on tim when hes not even pushing his products is a little nitpicky.

Ray has done alot for MYOG, but that doesnt protect his stuff from constructive criticism. Remember that corn flour soup stuff? His quilts are a decent product, but are very far from optimal if you are concerned with weight, performance, and bulk. Topbags on the other hand...

I'm not hating on Tim (Tim looks plenty capable of sticking up for himself as well:). I just felt that the use of the word crap/crappy twice and stating that there is no point in anyone ever buying a Ray kit wasn't exactly constructive criticism. I totally agree with Tim that the materials and design in Ray's kits aren't optimal. It's great to see people like Tim improving on these designs.

I would be very interested in knowing where I can find a better MYOG quilt design and instructions, especially for making a double quilt, as I really want to give the whole MYOG thing a try. Made one stove so far :)

Edited by jephoto on 08/10/2009 19:24:39 MDT.

I didn't write my comments from a competitive "buy my stuff" perspective, but as someone who has made and used a lot of quilts.

Thinking that yarn loops look crappy is just my perspective. I made a quilt using Ray's kit and i gave it away as it looked homemade and I didn't feel pride in it at all. It is what lead me to find other options.

I think the envelope footbox is crap because i have used one and don't find it comfortable at all. It is not any easier to make than a drawcorded footbox. In fact the way i make my quilts is the easiest possible way to do it. It is all sewn from the inside (except the extraction hole)

I just know that if you are going to take the time to make something you want it to be the best it can be. I think Ray's products have all been improved on enough that they are no longer the best options. However, I agree that they were the inspiration for what we have now.

I am glad that I don't still use my old pentium1 computer for all my computing needs. That doesn't make that a bad computer, it has just been surpassed, that's what happens.

And yes i can stick up for myself, i used to cage fight. So if anybody is still mad at me you can come over and we can work it out. :)

I am opinionated and blunt, it's just me. I don't mean to sound all hateful. I owe everything I do to Ray. His book was my inspiration. I just don't like his quilt, the tarp and the pack i would use but not the quilt.

-Tim

"I am opinionated and blunt, it's just me. I don't mean to sound all hateful. I owe everything I do to Ray. His book was my inspiration. I just don't like his quilt, the tarp and the pack i would use but not the quilt."

I would agree with Tim on this. Ray's book is one of the main reasons I went light weight, I learnt so much from it. But really the quilt is a let down.

Cheers

Note that Jardine recommends using yarns to stabilize the synthetic insulation because he believes the material lasts longer with them. Nothing forces you to do this...you can leave them out, just as the manufacturers do (probably because it doesn't look great, and maybe because if the quilts wear out faster they sell more of them).

So, criticizing Jardine quilts due to the yarns makes no sense.

As for his simple footbox, not sure why they don't work so well for others, but they work great for my family.

Note that I have no aesthetic sensibilities whatsoever concerning quilts...all I care about is that they work well, not that they look good.