Hi all, this is my 1st post on the forum but in my defence, I was simply too busy reading the endless information contained in the various post/forums of BPL. I'm convinced some of you can give me new insights and new ideas!

I'm looking for a 2 man tent that can withstand the bad weather of the Canadian Rockies. I do not plan to go on an overnight alpine climb in the middle of our winter but it is common to get high winds and snow even in summer due to the elevation.

My criteria are... (even though I do not leave in an ideal world...)
Vestibule (even a small one will do)
Space for two to sit and wait out a storm.
Easy to set up!
Under 4# (since I'll be climbing with it)
Stable in high winds
Able to support some snow loads.

Ideas:
Scarp 2 (is it strong enough? And yes, I read the recent review.)
Vaude Hogan Argon (seems too small)
Vaude Odyssee (Are Vaude tent s any good? I've never seen one in the flesh) My favorite so far
Vaude Specula Alpin (Anyone has info on this one?)
Brooks-Range Rocket (seems very small and $$$)
Black Diamond Firstlight + vestibule (How water resistant is the fabric/ heard mixed reviews)
Helsport Rondane Light
Hilberg Nallo 2 (At 180cm, will my feet rub the foot end all night? The angle seems tight.)
Nemo Nano (Big enough? Strong enough?)
What am I forgetting?

I will not buy a Stephenson since I have one already and it is a huge disappointment! (Maybe for an other thread...)
Thank you all
Cheers
Pierre D

Not base on use, but here are some observations from looking at these tents.

Nallo 2...Most tents seem to be about 87" long but at least the Nallo is a vertical wall at one end. Nallo is not freestanding so consider that.

It looks like the Nemo Nano is a little short, the length measurement is taken at the corners? Also wind under the high-cut sides is mentioned as an issue. Same design as a Bibler so should be strong. Has a small vestibule on the side which the wind may come under.

Black Diamond. Consensus on Epic seems to say not for use in the kind of rain you could experience in the Canadian Rockies. You would have to add a vestibule.

Maybe a Bibler Eldorado or ID Mark1XL? You would have to add a vestibule. Not super long.

Nemo Tenshi gets great reviews. Has a vestibule. Short and expensive.

Big Agnes String Ridge is longer at 90". Has a vestibule. Havn't heard first hand account of the strength.
5lb trail weight.

MSR Fury. Strong design. 94" length. 6lb trail weight. If you add a vestibule to some of the other tents the weight gets closer.

Vaude tents are fine. Maybe not at the top of the design chain but they build solid, serious stuff. I don't know the models you mention but if they say it's 4 season, it should do.

I'm interested in hearing about your dissapointment with the Stephensons tent. I have one and I'm still not sure what can or can't do with it. Maybe in another thread, if you prefer.

Well, if your only useing it in Winter the Firstlite is a GREAT choice. However with the rainstorms that weve been seeing this past week I would not use it in summer.
Nallo 2 - heard great things about it.
Other tents that lean towards your criteria might be an ID Mk2 or 3 with vestibule, or the Rab Summit Extreem (lacks a vestabule).

Most of the other tents you mentioned (TT, ect) I would NOT consider for alpine four season (or even summer) use in the rockies

Four pounds is REALLY light for a alpine tent. Maybe some more info as to where you want to use the tent (K countery, Robson, Icefields, alpine, or valleys?) would be usefull.

Cheers, Rob

Integral Designs has the new 2 person Wedge, an eVent alpine shelter. It has a low ceiling however but the weight is right - just under 3 pounds. Unfortunately BPL has not provided any information on it from its introduction at the Outdoor Retailer Show.

I didn't like getting wet inside my black diamond tent in the rockies. I'd skip it.

You guys are great!

The BD tents where not my favorites because of the water issues but my usual climbing mate really seems to think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Although he never saw one in person. Somehow he does not want to hear that they are not water resistent enough.

Exemples of climbs: Robson's North Face, Rainier, Alaska (one day / I can dream can I), lots around the Icefeild Parkway.

I'd love to buy "local" so Integral designs would be great. But even with the light floor option, they would be heavier once you add the vestibule.

Rab: I had seen some more models on their website but they where not there for long. Fire retardency issues I assume.

Nallo: how easy would it be to set it up on a ridge? Would it be a PITA when hit by side winds. The ground might dictates how I'd have to set it up.

Again, thanks to all.
Cheers
Pierre

Pierre, why are you dissapointed with Stephensons? i was seriosly considering getting one for colder winter climbs. please post your issues or send me a pm. Thank you!

I don't see the Nallo being more a PITA than other tents as long as you can get stakes in the ground. If you can't get stakes in then things would become very interesting. One thing to keep in mind is the poles only go in from one side because the pole sleeves are closed on one end. Maybe you would need a bit more space than for something like a Bibler or ID tent.

What you want simply does not exist and is not likely to unless someone invents a new fabric. You would be WELL set up with an Integral Designs MKIII plus vestibule and that is over SIX lbs.

My I.D. MKI-XL plus vestibule is 5.75 lbs. and it is pretty tight for two, unless they are young and "fond" of each other.

My first choice here would be a Hilleberg Jannu and my next the I.D. MKIII. I wouldn't bother with anything else based on living alone in the Canadian Rockies, in the bush, at elevation for months on end.

You "get what ya pay for" in gear and the 70mph winds, 18" snowfalls and fogged-in days of June and July in the southern Canadian Rockies REQUIRE a serious tent.

I too would be interested in what the problems were with the Stephensons tent. I bought a 2R last year for winter camping. Due to injury, i only managed a few trips with it, but didn't have any problems. I used it in high winds, heavy rain and snow. No heavy snow loading though.

David: that event Wedge seems interesting. I hope there is more info on our way.

Ryan: good call on the space needed to set up the tent with side insertion poles.

Dewwy: I though it did. The Vaude where it on paper but since no one is really recommending them...

Stephenson: They had a sale back in 1999 on their model made with urethane coatings. They where then switching to a better fabric. I jump on the occasion since they where saying that the older fabric tents where still unbelievable tents and would out last any other. I got a green 3RS. To make a long story short, they never told me that my new tent was in fact 7 years old!!! They also recently admitted (via email) that this type of fabric keeps "curing" and can't last more than 10 years. Basically my new tent had a life expectancy of 3 ish years. I made it to about 5 years and than it leaked at every shower I got caught in. Stupidly enough I stood in the rain staring at the tent to find out where the water was coming in, in order to re-seal those areas. I did not know that I was wasting my time. Then last summer was enough, I contacted them in the hopes to get some help. I got lots of info but no help. They will not stand for their products and won't admit they "screwed me" in 1999 by omitting some info. Their new fabric is supposed to be better but why would I trust them with my hard earned $$. They offered me a deal... since I already had the poles, I could save a 100U$! Simply not enough.

I might still be able to get one of these used Integral Designs:
The tent is called the Hammerhead - it was made for a short time and sold by MEC, although it was bought directly from Integral Designs in 2000. It sizes between the MK1 and the MK1-XL. It weighs 4.9 lbs with poles and has the light floor. I still need to add a vestibule though. Any thoughts?

Cheers
Pierre

Thanks for the update Pierre. What a bummer! I can see why you don't want to look at Stephensons anymore.

Your experience with Stephenson's mirrors that of others I have known and it is why I never bought one of their products. They always impressed me as lots of ego and superb marketing, but, very little REAL mountain experience.

The MEC-ID "Hammerhead" tent is one I AM familiar with and was the most hideously coloured and utterly superb mountain tent I have seen. I would LOVE to own one and am POed at myself that I did not buy one, when I could have.....hindsight, ya know!

If, this is in good shape, ESPECIALLY the FLOOR, I would look no further and just buy it. Evan is a rather grumpy guy, but, his designs and build quality are among the VERY finest and I have LOTS of his gear and have NEVER had a flaw in any of it....the ONLY maker I can say that about, except Hilleberg.

I am a picky old phart, but, I will gladly pay for real quality and ID is that, no bs.

I saw that rocket tent at OR, it was pretty sweet. The fabric is super tough and light, but it doesnt breathe at all (they do have a few vents). I think multiple days in it in a storm might be miserable. But it's SOOO light. The fabric is reflective like a space blanket which is supposed to keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Size stats: 48"/122cm wide, 25ft^2/2.3m^2 floor space, 38"/97cm peak height. 1lb 6oz if you use ski poles and avy probe, 2lbs with tent poles. $600 msrp, ..i dont think they're selling it yet (?)

Another option is the Exped Polaris. It's made of eVent fabric but they dont use the eVent name. It's on the heavy side of what you're looking for (5lb 6oz, including vestibule), and it's pricey. I've seen it from $650-930 online. I'm thinking about getting one, but only have been able to find 2 or 3 user reviews online (which were all quite favorable). Anybody around here had experience with one?

well it's been a long time away from these forums...

What about the Marmot alpinist? I've never used one personally but a buddy of mine swears by it. It has a very tiny vestibule (more like an antry cover) and has vertical corners to make it a little more livable. Minimum trail weight is just under 5 lbs.

i haven't read through the forums in a while either, but now i see there was already a thread about the rocket tent, ..although i see on the trailspace blog link that they list the floor space as 21.5ft^2 ..whereas the product sheet i got from brooks says *25.1ft^2* ..so perhaps a typo on trail space's part.

Hey sounds like you are looking for a bivy tent, not a larger mountineering model. One of those would be good for base camp (say Alaska), smaller, lighter tent for up high - or for general use in the Rockies.

The BD's look GREAT for winter conditions. If you are looking for one tent for BOTH summer and winter alpine I bought a Rab Summit Extreem (Spirit West has them BTW). I think you would then need to buy something with a vestouble.

Failing that NEMO tents?

Or BD Firstlight w/ vestouble, and something else for summer? That would be a preatty sick system IMO. You cound even get a Hillberg and have your summer tent (not good for ledges though (bivys? Tarps?), winter light tent, and base camp tent.

No magic bullet. ID made eVent Mk1s and 3s for a little while. If you could find that, might be the only magic bullet.

FYI I have been told that eVent goes up VERY quicky in flames, that is why GE no longer allows its use in tents (although 'bivys' are allowed).

Just thought of this but the only true year round climbing tents that I can think of that kind of fit your criteria are:
BD EPIC tents
BD Bibler's
ID tents (lighter eVent ones no longer made)
NEMO tents

The Rab lacks a vestouble, and all the other ones that have been sugested are too large for hard climbing, and too complicated. They are also too heavy, might have trouble fitting on a ledge, or require too much space too guy out.

The problem is that almost nothing on that list is under 4lb with a vestouble, and the one that is might not be the best idea for summer in the Rockies.

I have heard of it being used with a tarp in heavy rain though...

That said I have been very happy with my Rab, as long as you think of it as a technical tent only.

I like that idea! A BD epic tent + a vestibule and a light sil tarp in case of rain. You can than forgo the tarp and the vestibule for the hard part of the climb if you come back that way.

Spirit West: I think they closed the one in Calgary but I'd sure love to see the Rab tent for myself! I might be able to make due with a tarp and a hiking pole with this tent.

Any thoughts on the Vaude Odyssee? Their Hogan Ultralight Argon seems too small.

Nemo Tenshi sounds great aswell. I'll see if I can find a good deal on this one.

Again, thank you all for the many good ideas! Keep em coming!!!
Cheers
Pierre