JMT speed record attempt
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Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: Pack Weight on 08/07/2009 11:40:45 MDT Print View

I might be confused. You've done the Triple Crown? As in the AT, PCT, CDT? Did you hike those in boots or do them all in one year? I guess I assume that you either don't have a depth of experience because your first pair of trail runners were golites (which were released not long ago) or you've got a ton of experience (having done the triple crown in a year or two in trail runners).

Just curious.

Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
'SoCal' Triple Crown on 08/07/2009 11:57:40 MDT Print View

Mark was referring to my TR at the top of the thread. I did the 'SoCal' triple crown (Baldy, Gorgonio, Jacinto). I posted the TR because no one in this community knows who I am and I thought I should try to establish some credibility in the event I was successful.

http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/515720/bear-flat-c2c-vivian-creek-socal-triple-crown-the-hard-way.html

No, I don't have much experience in UL trail/ultra running, but am trying to learn as much as fast as I can. I usually do more mountaineering type stuff. Many years ago I did double century cycling rides.

Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
record verification on 08/07/2009 12:12:00 MDT Print View

Speaking of credibility...For record verification purposes I was taking short video clips at all trail junctions including a shot of my watch. I thought this would be pretty convincing. On whitney I was going to ask someone to verify the time but no one was there predawn--i wasn't too concerned about this because one could judge the time of day by the twilight. i also wrote the time in the summit register. In the next attempt though i may leave the summit before twilight (with the later rising sun and possibly an earlier start) so there may be a glitch here, but realistically the time can be inferred from the next waypoint at crabtree meadow junction pretty accurately.

Angela Zukowski
(AngelaZ) - F

Locale: New England
Re: Pack Weight on 08/07/2009 12:16:13 MDT Print View

Brett: if you are looking for a warm layer, I can't say enough good things about my montbell thermawrap jacket. I know a lot of AT thru-hikers who wear them, too. It's actually too warm for me to hike while wearing it, except in the middle of New England winter and even then only if I'm moving slowly/stopping often.

The Leki's and REI poles I can think of offhand are about 14 or 15 oz. They definitely are not as light as these:

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/poles.html

which are awesome but I'm not sure if they are still selling them. The REI ones I got were cheap (on clearance for less than 60 bucks), weight 14 oz, and while they do have a tendency to occasionally collapse... they were so affordable that I don't care! If you can wait for their big sale... you may as well give them a shot.

Mark Davis
(Trailster) - F

Locale: Cascades
Poles on 08/07/2009 13:27:04 MDT Print View

A good carbon-fiber poles should be 4oz each or less. Used xc ski poles are a cheap way to get this. I used my wife's old xc poles and changed the tips and lenth. For more money collapsable poles are avilable. I almost bought some from this web-site that were on sale for a great price. I think they were about 4oz each. I tried rubber tips this year and they worked ok, but I think the metal tips do grip better in most conditions. I did'nt like the noise metal tips made or the little holes in the side of the trail.

This year for verification I made up tiny cards with an email address. It was fun handing these out and I have recieved several verifications already. Anytime someone would comment on how fast I was going or how little my pack was, I told them what I was doing and gave them a card. The cards had clear contact plastic sheet on the printed side to protect them from water. The backside could be writen on for time and location. I think this is about the best method of verification possible on a wilderness course. It was fun meeting people on the trail and I did meet some great people this way.

Well, I'm packed and off to Yosemite. It was very strange this week: one day on the JMT racing to Yosemite and the next on Zuma Beach laying in the sand watching my kids play in surf. Somehow I don't think I'm in the drivers seat!

Mark

Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
Zuma and Michael on 08/07/2009 15:45:41 MDT Print View

Mark,

I live/work near/in Malibu. Had I known you were near Zuma I would have tried catching you. It would have been great to talk in person.

Has anyone heard about Michael's progress? The suspense is getting to me...

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Pack Weight on 08/07/2009 18:00:08 MDT Print View

"any recommendations on a particular jacket with some insulation?"

Brett,

Maybe take a look at the WM Flash vest. It weighs 3 1/2 oz and should be enough to keep your core warm on a summer effort, especially since you are on the move most of the time. Raingear: O2 Rainshield or Dri Ducks at around 5-5 1/2 oz, and they breathe extremely well and are fine for trail hiking; if no rain is expected, maybe consider a MB windshirt at 3 oz; For better breathability, consider the slightly heavier Patagonia Houdini. Poles: GG Lite Trek4's. A little over 4 oz each. Whatever long sleeve shirt you decide on, treat it with Permethrin and you won't have to worry about skeeters biting through it. Definitely experiment with the Recoverite that Mark mentioned and maybe also try Ultragen. It is analagous to Recoverite, but has a lot more electrolytes in it. You may find one or the other more palatable, an important issue in the stressful situation you will be facing.
A good bottle for mixing a Perpetuem paste might be something like one of those 16 oz Odwalla juice bottles. The mouth is wide enough to pour Perpetuem into, they weigh a little over an oz, and they are quite narrow, which means you could slot one into a side pocket and it wouldn't stick out enough to interfere with your swinging arms, and it would go into and out of the pocket with minimal effort.

Edited by ouzel on 08/07/2009 18:06:32 MDT.

Peter Bakwin
(pbakwin) - F
Re: JMT speed record attempt on 08/07/2009 19:40:44 MDT Print View

Folks - as far as verification (for what it's worth) a big step is announcing your intentions (in detail) in advance. I offer my site as a way to communicate this to the interested community:
http://pbakwin.home.comcast.net/FKT.html
PB

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: Re: Pack Weight on 08/07/2009 22:22:15 MDT Print View

Yep, what Tom said. The WM flash vest would be a great alternative, GG lightrek 4 poles are very light and well regarded.

Spend some time researching stuff on this site and asking questions, and you'll realise how much of an advantage you can gain by going UL without compromising comfort or safety. You should check out the "Community Gear Lists" section of the website and you'll be able to see what the guys who are "SUL" (super UL) are carrying. Also check Alan Dixon's website "Adventure Alan" to see a XUL (extreme UL) list with base weight of 2.4 pounds!

When you're running a race, all you need really is a bivy, a sleeping bag/quilt, and food/water plus a few minor essentials. Plus a small tarp if there is a chance of rain. So there is really no reason at all you can't get below 4 pounds baseweight in good weather, since you're not cooking and when you stop walking/running you are basically just going to lie down and sleep!

Mark Davis
(Trailster) - F

Locale: Cascades
FKT on 08/08/2009 20:05:20 MDT Print View

YES
Peter Bakwin has provided us with a great website that keeps track of the Fastest Known Times for trail runs and other outdoor feats. This is a wonderful account of record for us off road racers (I loosley consider myself part of this group of great athletes). Anybody thinking of doing a trail run please post an anouncement on this site. Peter is an exterme athlete himself and has continued to provide us with a site to keep track of these wilderness race endeavors. Wish I could meet him too, seems like a nice guy. This sport has created a group of great people! This could expand to be somethind special.

Mark

PS: where is Michael?

Peter Bakwin
(pbakwin) - F
Re: JMT speed record attempt on 08/08/2009 20:32:09 MDT Print View

Thanks for the kind words, Mark. I'm sorry that my site does not yet allow you to post. But, I will try to put things up quickly if people send me info. I created the site because there seemed to be sneed for a central location for this type of info. You may email me at the address indicated on the site.

Yes, where is Popov???

P

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
JMT speed record attempt where's Michael Popov on 08/09/2009 01:21:10 MDT Print View

So,
Michael's probably asleep right now in his bed for the next week recovering from what was his worst night in his life.

No, Michael did not make it to Yosemite, (again).
He had to bail at Tuolumne, (again).

We left Red's Meadow at 7:35pm, 63:35 hours in with 57.? miles left and 28:25 hours to do it in.

He had a plan to do the trail with 2 longer sleep periods and then do the last 86 miles with some naps.
He also had me pacing him so it should have been fine. He was trying to do as many segments at a sub 80 hour pace.
That didn't happen from the start, but the time lost was consistent.
He was actually right on pace as the past attempt. Pretty much within an hour the whole time.
If he had just slept for 2 to 3 hours at Reds, he would have been fine, but things don't always go as planed.

It started with stomach problems, leading to not wanting much food, leading to a slower pace and consistently getting worse.
Until the crash, he was having a blast, and flying while doing it.
There were other problems he said added to this, but it led to a crash that lasted well into the morning.

22 miles after Reds the record had slipped away.
It was that bad of a night, and it took 16.5 hours to do those 22 miles.
It was also 28 degrees that night, so the stoppage time was freezing.
We were even expecting snow and dressed to easily stay warm enough, (while on the move).

We both learned a lot about that night and realized what it will take to get through it in the future.
As for his attempt. He was moving at pace for the first few hours after Reds Meadow and even approaching the third day, he was hard to keep up with.

If Kilian doesn't take a huge chunk off the record, guess what's going to happen next year?
Unfinished business...
You know what they say; third times a charm.

Michael can give the rest of the story whenever he wakes up.

Edited by awsorensen on 08/09/2009 11:32:27 MDT.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: JMT speed record attempt where's Michael Popov on 08/09/2009 15:02:49 MDT Print View

Glad to hear Michael is at least safe with no serious medical issues.

Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: JMT speed record attempt where's Michael Popov on 08/09/2009 16:23:56 MDT Print View

Sorry to hear about the failed attempt but glad to hear everyone is safe. I kept calling my wife while hiking this weekend to see if there was an update. Given nothing was posted immediately I feared the worst but thankfully it sounds everyone will be fine. Although we are competitors, I genuinely wished Michael (and Mark) would have succeeded in their efforts. I know how much time and energy goes into one of these things and hope everyone can have their "perfect run".

Michael Popov
(mpopov) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
JMT again on 08/09/2009 16:46:59 MDT Print View

Hello, everyone! Thank you for your support for Brett and Mark in their valiant attempts at the trail! And for me as well.

I have finally woken up; the problems I have encountered in between Reds and Tuo were not entirely digestive, but also sleep-deprived. Unfortunately I have dislocated my shoulder the day before the run and ended up in the ER after running down the mountain to Portal to get the ride. After ER, of course, I threw away the required sling immediately (wear it for a month? pleease!), but the pain kept me from sleeping and I only got a little over an hour of sleep just before the start. That, I think, was a substantial part of the crash at Reds - not topping off the sleep tank with peaceful rest.

Hohestly, Reds to Tuo was the worst night of my life when I really did not care whether I'd live or die. I was not moving b/c of fatigue, and it was impossible to sleep b/c of freezing temps. Throat was extremely parched from the air of Evolution Valley and even gels were getting stuck midway through. I was falling backwards while trying to go, and have seen amazing things including "the tunnel" itself. At one point Aaron tried to hold my head, but dropped it against the ground hard by accident, and I don't even recall this happening. The whole night was the blur. Aaron, thank you for being there for me, friend.

That's the short recap of the bonk. I'm working on the full report and it should be out Monday.

I also have some input on the Portal-Top debate, but will hold off for a couple of days. I respect all the opinions, but would like to bring it to some formal final uniformity.

Edited by mpopov on 08/09/2009 16:55:55 MDT.

Michael Popov
(mpopov) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Pre-JMT pictures taken by Badwater Ben Jones on 08/09/2009 16:54:50 MDT Print View

http://sports.webshots.com/album/573885200IlcXef?vhost=sports

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
JMT speed record attempt on 08/09/2009 16:55:23 MDT Print View

Micheal and Aaron--Congrats on the attempt to do the JMT and give yourself alot of credit for what you attempted to do..There is not that many people in your circle (HOBBIE-PASSION) Sounds like you need to go on a EASY backpacking trip to a local lake a just CHILL-OUT and fish, swim and drink a lot of beer!!!

Cheers-Jay

Michael Popov
(mpopov) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: JMT speed record attempt on 08/09/2009 17:02:57 MDT Print View

I think it's a GREAT idea, Jay! These types of events are done once a year at the best, and make great round-the-fire stories for the rest of the year. Until the next one... But seriously, I'm thinking the good come-down trip would be something like double Lost Coast in 3 days. I even volunteer to bring a bear can. The one with a Heinie logo on the side.

Edited by mpopov on 08/09/2009 17:04:47 MDT.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
JMT Record - Summit or Portal on 08/09/2009 21:00:38 MDT Print View

Some More Rules - Details
1. Where is the Northern terminus ? The sign or the stone bridge where the pavement begins?
2. Which trail do you follow in the Tuolumne area ? the original classic trail or the newer "official trail?
3. How do you pass thru Reds Meadow area? thru the Devils Postpile or up higher on the actual JMT?
4. When minutes start counting, these things matter. I'm sure there are others.

Edited by asandh on 07/13/2010 01:15:11 MDT.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
JMT Speed Record Attempt on 08/09/2009 21:26:27 MDT Print View

I personally think Backpacking should never be a competition. Backpacking is a Hobby or Passion or something you do with the family and friends....I have much respect for Micheal and Aaron and even Andrew Skurka for all the things they have accomplished...There were no officials or referees when I did the JMT.. Hike your own Hike-Too each is there own....