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Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: JMT Mega Bonk on 10/28/2009 23:15:38 MDT Print View

Hello Jorge,

Time is really starting to blur my memory of the encounters I had on the two runs. I saw so many people on the first day of the first attempt it's hard for me to keep straight which encounters belong to which run. After thinking about it I'm fairly sure I encountered a man/woman couple coming down the steep trail ~1/4 mile from the trail junction in Vidette Meadow. I also vaguely remember someone asking me about the weather in that general area, but I didn't know anything. I probably didn't slow down at all during the encounter. I wasn't trying to be rude. I was in a hurry! With the exception of Ian on Whitney, I don't think anyone else has said they 'saw' me on the trail. You may be the only ones.

Good luck on your planned ~5 day future fast pack. I highly recommend hiking as much of the JMT beforehand as possible. Not knowing parts of the trail could cause major problems for something like this.

Brett

Reinhold Metzger
(JMTReinhold) - F
JMT Controversy on 10/31/2009 15:17:00 MDT Print View

I am somewhat puzzled and amused by the controversy over the start and finish of the JMT.

It was very clear in my mind, back in 1996, that the JMT is
"That stretch of the trail between Happy Isles and the summit of Mt. Whitney" and all official refrences indicate the Southern Terminus of the JMT is MT. Whitney and the Northern Terminus is Happy Isles in Yosemite Valley.

The JMT is what it is and no convenience or inconvenience factors for race purposes will change that.
Anything more or less will simply make it a JMT + or -.

I don't buy the argument, "Since you have to walk up or down the Whitney Trail to get to Mt. Whitney or down to Whitney Portal it is therefore part of the JMT and Reinhold
did not fly a helicopter to the top of Whitney".

The Whitney Trail does not become part of the JMT just because one starts at Whitney Portal.
The Whitney Trail is merely one of several trails to the top of Mt. Whitney.
You could go with the Mountaineering Route from the Portal.
You could go via New Army Pass from Horseshoe Mdw.
You could go via Old Army Pass from Horseshoe Mdw.
You could go via Cottonwood pass, or you could take the Moutaineering Route from Sky Blue Lake to Whitney....
I could go on, but I think I made my point....The Whitney
Trail is not the only way to get to or from Mt. Whitney.
As a matter of fact, the last few years, because of the heavy traffic and difficulty of obtaining a permit starting at the Portal, I have used all the above routes
and equally valid arguments could be made that the above trails are part of the JMT.

So where does the JMT start & finish?
It starts and finishes wherever you want it to start and finish as long as the start and finish are Happy Isles and the summit of Mt. Whitney.
Anything more or less will just make it a JMT + or -.

It might help to defuse the confusion if those who start at the Portal would call it the "Whitney Portal to Happy Isles High Sierra Race", or something like that, to distinguish it from those who do the pure, official JMT route..."That stretch of the trail between Happy Isles and
the summit of Mt. Whitney".

JMT Reinhold
That is my perspective

Mark Davis
(Trailster) - F

Locale: Cascades
An interesting comparison on 10/31/2009 17:57:05 MDT Print View

Brett, one of my shipmates told me of an ultra-runner from Australia named Cliff Young. I looked up the story about him and I though that you would be interested in his ultra-running strategy. If you get any time read about him. You will think it's pretty cool. I hope everything is going well with you and your family. Mark

Sarah Spelt
(sarzy01) - F
Re: JMT Controversy on 10/31/2009 21:58:02 MDT Print View

"So where does the JMT start & finish?
It starts and finishes wherever you want it to start and finish as long as the start and finish are Happy Isles and he summit of Mt. Whitney."

Ha! I love it!

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: JMT Controversy on 11/01/2009 02:49:04 MST Print View

I agree that the JMT starts at the summit of Mt. Whitney. Someone could make a poll.

Reinhold Metzger
(JMTReinhold) - F
JMT Controversy on 11/01/2009 08:05:04 MST Print View

Jack,
Those folks that start at Happy Isles might disagree with you.
The JMT does not have a official start and finish, just a Southern Terminus (Whitney) and a Northern Terminus (Happy Isles)....No poll needed
The same goes for the PCT, CDT and the AT.
It starts wherever you want it to start as long as the start and finish are Happy Isles and the summit of Mt. Whitney.

JMT Reinhold

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: JMT Controversy on 11/01/2009 08:45:04 MST Print View

Reinhold
You are allowing yourself to be controlled by the arbitrary declaration of the Federal Govt (regarding JMT terminus) rather than the "Natural Flow" of the wilderness.
If you want to live your life that way ... so be it :-(

The Wilderness knows where the ""Trail"" begins and ends.

Art

Edited by asandh on 11/02/2009 13:54:12 MST.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Re: JMT Controversy on 11/01/2009 10:03:50 MST Print View

Do people that Yo-Yo the JMT have discussions about where the turn around point is ?

Edited by redmonk on 11/01/2009 10:06:49 MST.

Reinhold Metzger
(JMTReinhold) - F
JMT Controvery on 11/02/2009 02:54:52 MST Print View

Oooohhhh...Art,....
Go with "The Natural Flow" of the wilderness...I like that.

I must write my Congressman immediately to repeal all wilderness rules and regulations.
No more permits, no more bounderies, no more trails from here to there, we will just flow with "The Natural Flow" of the wilderness.

The JMT will start at my front door....I like that idea!!!

JMT Reinhold

Brett Maune
(bmaune) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: An interesting comparison on 11/03/2009 23:33:36 MST Print View

Mark,

That story is amazing! Words don't really do it justice...It sounds like he never slept at all yet he seems coherent in all the youtube videos. I don't know how that's possible...

Reinhold Metzger
(JMTReinhold) - F
JMT Controversy....Yo - Yo turn around on 11/08/2009 10:02:34 MST Print View

Cameron wrote..do people who Yo-Yo the JMT have discussions
about where the turn around point is?
--------------
Geeeezzzzz....Cameron,....I would say people turnaround at the half way point.
At least that's what Catra and I did.
I know, because Catra and I first met on a moonlit summer night in the summer of 2004.
I was sleeping in the Whitney Hut on the eve of my sub-five
unsupported JMT attempt when Catra, who had just finished the first half of her JMT Yo-Yo, burst into the hut and into my life.
We both were lonesome and needed each other...but soon she was gone and I was left there all alone.
Catra and I both turned around on the summit of Mt. Whitney, but you could just as well turn around at Happy Isles.

I hope this clears up this deep mistery and helps you to determine where to turn around on your JMT Yo-Yo.
This is very important to know, because if you don't know where to turn around you could wind up in Canada or Mexico.

JMT Reinhold
Still dreaming about Catra

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
JMT Controversy on 12/12/2009 18:34:39 MST Print View

I believe... most folks do... that the JMT is universally and officially recognized to be between Happy Isles and Mt. Whitney; N2S or S2N. Heck, I met a group of Germans at the Inca Trail who knew that!! There are no "start" and "finish" lines because the trail was not meant to be used as a racetrack.

To throw a twist into the equation claiming some "goverment conspiracy" is laughable at best and it could be considered disrespectful to those who endured hardship to achieve their specific goal; whether such goal was achieved in 3 days or 3 weeks.

Yes, one may start the JMT hike from his/her own front door and finish it anywhere in the planet. But, only 211 miles of that distance will be considered JMT miles. Anything extra or less will be just that. I personally enjoyed my JMT victories at Whitney. That way, I felt satisfaction and really enjoyed myself more as I passed by the early morning "conga" lines on their way up.

Hike your own 211 mile JMT hike; W2Y / Y2W.

Edited by DeLaSierra on 12/14/2009 14:57:09 MST.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: JMT Controversy on 12/20/2009 14:25:10 MST Print View

Hey Jorge,
I agree, only as far as fastpacking goes, the JMT is one fantastic trail to try to conquer with speed in mind.
The moderate temps and the spectacular scenery are amazing any way you hike it.

When we talk about backpacking lite, an Unsupported 4.5 day trip just makes more sense to me.

I don't have 3 weeks to take off work and hike it.
I don't need to worry about resupplying and most of all it is just fun. It also makes much less of an impact on the trail getting through it in 4-5 days.

It is also pretty amazing having everybody off the trail in their tents and having it be all yours during most of the hike.
We are just backpacking lite, only moving faster.

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: JMT Controversy on 02/06/2010 22:29:47 MST Print View

I'm with you on that Aaron. I was referring mostly to folks and their "points of interests". I enjoy a good heavy packed long hike as much as I enjoy a speedhike; I am flexible that way. I have to if I want my wife to come along with me.

Well, the season is fast approaching. Got my speedhikes locked on already. Going over to Joshua Tree in March, Yosemite in April, Onion Valley to Whitney Portal on July 4th, as much of the TRT in August and the White Mountain on Labor Day. I have my own JMT aspirations (6 or less); but, that will have to wait 'till 2011.
Later.....

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
JMT speed record attempt on 02/16/2010 08:12:44 MST Print View

Greetings all:

Well, I went out and had a taste of a what a fast hike would be like under serveral conditions. I ran a 32.5 mile ultra marathon in my full hiking gear (17 pound pack); 9 hours. My mission was to test gear, hydration pills, stomach response to gells, name it. Most of all, to test where my boddy is after two months of trail training. The real test was to get up the next day and run a simple 15K trail race.; could not do it. My body went on strike and could not move a muscle. More training to come I guess. Next training test will be a Bishop ultra race; 32 miles at Sierra altitude on May 15. Remind me please what the %$#@%* am I doing this for anyway????????? Oh yeah, the beauty of it all.....
Happy Trails.

Edited by DeLaSierra on 02/16/2010 08:15:35 MST.

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
JMT speed record attempt on 04/18/2010 00:04:15 MDT Print View

Played around in Joshua Tree, Death Valley and Yosemite in a five week period. JT had some good training day speedhikes but somehow it felt short with me. Yosemite was snowed in. I hurt my right knee on day one -- run one. Death Valley was the best! Up Telescope Peak and a fabulous mountain bike ride at Titus Canyon = a grand three day week-end experience there.

Edited by DeLaSierra on 05/24/2010 22:31:02 MDT.

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
JMT North-South Records on 04/18/2010 00:05:30 MDT Print View

Another successful 50k test at Bishop on May 15, '10. Went hollywood though; no hiking rig. 33.1 miles in 8:21; felt a little weak at the end there but was able to recover swiftly in about 12 hours. The difference in speedhiking with gear and going hollywood is like night and day. Next test, Onion Valley to Whitney Portal unsupported. Good times!!

Edited by DeLaSierra on 05/24/2010 22:24:18 MDT.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
JMT speed record attempts for 2010 on 07/15/2010 19:27:11 MDT Print View

Yes
The JMT is heating up again.
This year there is no unsupported or supported record.
The record of 86 was made unsupported, so beating it supported just gets the supported record.

So who is it this year that's heading out to beat the elusive time.
Well it's the same guys that have been out there doing it all along.
This year I am going for the Supported Record and Ian Alloway is going to go Unsupported.
The battle even heats up around the same time as we will both be up there for August's full moon.
This year I'll have Michael Popov helping me in the pacing. It's about time. I've driven about 1200 miles each year for the support of him over the past two years. He will be pacing me from Mono Lake to Reds Meadow and from Tuolumne to the finish.
Sarah Spelt from PCTR will be with me the final night from Reds Meadow to Tuolumne.

The gear list this year is as minimal as possible.

Pack: Salomon XT Wings 5 Pro Backpack
Jacket: The North Face Zephyrus Insulated Pullover
Vest: Mont Bell Down Inner Half Sleeve Jacket
Rain/wind shell: North Face Triumph Anorak

Other gearworn or carried ; Rail Riders Long Sleeve Shirt and Pants, a light Nike cap, REI hat, Injungi Socks, Asics 2150 Trail shoes.

2.5 pounds per day of an assortment of
Hammer Jel Perpetium, Hammer Jel Heed, Amino Vital, Gue and Honey. Maybe a few snack stuff thrown in.

The Rest: MP3 player, Camera/ video, Coast Lensor H7 Headlamp, Time splits/small map, 1aaa extra battery, safety pin and Leuko tape for blisters.

Thats it. Hoping to keep weight with water under 7 pounds at all times.
I'll have a person at Taboose Trail Jct to re-supply and a few hours sleep at mile 67 before a 2nd 67 mile day to Edison/ Mono at mile 134.

Hoping to get out of Mono in under 48 hours. Yikes!!!

For now I'm in Louisiana helping with the clean up so its running in 90* weather on sand.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Aaron Sorensen 2010 JMT Record Attempt on 07/15/2010 20:15:07 MDT Print View

Aaron
why don't you copy and paste what you just wrote and put it in a brand new thread.
this is turning into a super long multi year thread.

and your effort IS a brand new topic after all :-)

Jorge DeLaSierra
(DeLaSierra) - F

Locale: SoCal
JMT speed record attempt on 07/15/2010 20:20:34 MDT Print View

Aaron; congrats on your upcoming endeavor. I will be looking forward to your reports. There are one or two trail blazers out there who are fixing to go. One of them is named Kenneth Muller. Kenneth will be going N2S unsupported. I believe he hopes to be done in 5.

I have been in the Sierra twice this year already (training and having a good time of course) and have to say that snow and swollen creeks, although ever so beautiful, played a big factor in slowing things down a little for me. I have a couple of weeks before I go on a day hike from Onion Valley to Lone Pine Lake to test gear and myself; however, the trail reports (NPS.Gov) are not encouraging (speed in mind). My JMT trek will be in 2011; N2S in 6-8 days (I don't hike during darkness; not fun for me).

By the way, congrats on that gear list; nice. I did not see a tent or a bivy on the list. Is your support crew bringing that stuff out to you?

Hey stay in touch and much success and health to you and all of the JMT trail blazers out there.

JD