I got my Jam2 in the mail today and I'm a bit baffled at a few things. First, here is a picture for reference:



QUESTION 1:
I can't figure out what the bungie cord loops are for near the upper side compression straps. The side compression straps are fully sewed to the bag so they are not relying on this bungie for any support or anything. Also, the bungie cords just end immediately inside the pack so it's not like you can cinch the pack up with these. They are not connected to each other or anything. Are these bungie loops for hanging stuff off? Like what?

QUESTION 2:
What are the two fabric loops hanging off the bottom for? I don't believe these are for the comPacKtor system. Do you just hang stuff off these? Or what? Here's a picture...I'm talking about the big loop on the left:



QUESTION 3
I want to remove the hydration sleeve. Any tips for doing this? Do I just grab a sharp knife and start cutting stitches? I'm nervous. I don't have a stitch remover/cutter.

QUESTION 4
Any tips for rolling the top of the pack closed? Do you guys find rolling it forwards or backward works best? I'm a bit concerned about rain puddling on the top and eventually finding the hole.

Thanks guys!

Edited by dandydan on 07/21/2009 22:24:40 MDT.

They are for ice axes... the loops at the bottom of packs are referred to as ice axe loops, the bungee is to secure the ice axe vertical... this is set up for two ice axes. Just to add some extra knowledge for you, the loop at the top of a bag is referred to as a haul loop, these are remenants for climbers as you might have already guessed, and it's funny to see how many standard cheapo backpacks include these features. I don't even think some of the manufacturers know what they're for so don't feel bad :P

As for a seam ripper, they are cheap at walmart or target, and it's a lot better than using a knife. Ensure that the seams you're ripping aren't attaching anything other than the hydration sleeve before ripping it out though please. I don't have this pack, but I have a roll top bag and I always have rolled towards the backpanel, for some reason unbeknownst to me.

Edited by debiant on 07/21/2009 22:37:51 MDT.

Do you have pictures of to use the haul loops? Can I use them to fasten my hiking poles to my pack? Or has anyone found any other unique uses for these?

The ice axe loops work great for your hiking poles.

Thanks guys....I really appreciate the answers.

I'll buy a proper seam ripper from Wal-Mart soon.

Being the Gear Freak that I am, I went and ordered a Jam2 from Prolite. They didn't have a large so I went with a Medium, even though, most say to size up. I do favor backpacks, almost to the same degree as Franco with his Tarptent's? HA
I think, my current count is 8 packs, excluding 2 day/hyd. packs.
I did see Will R. review on the Jam, and in the first picture, it seems that the pack is actually too tall for him, with the shoulder straps almost level with the top of his shoulders.
I personally have found that a good wrap over, is a better or a more equal balance for load carry. Instead of trying to carry more of the weight on the hips.

I don't have the Jam 2, I have the Pinnical which I believe is almost an identical design, just on a larger scale. I also removed the hydration sleeve from mine and don't recall it being too difficult with a seam ripper and don't think it was attached to anything critical. You can just turn the whole pack inside-out to make it easier to work with. It looks like they redesigned the Jam 2 a bit from last year... are those zippered hip pockets I see?

I have also used the ice axe loops for holding my treking poles and they do work well for that. I can't say that I have found the Compressor loops and hooks at the bottom very handy, it really seems to distort the back panel with a loaded pack. As for rolling the top lid I wouldn't say the direction matters as much as how tightly it is rolled. I know the material is water resistant to a point but I personally don't know how much it will take, I usually wear it under my poncho when it rains.

I've found plenty of weight saving opportunities with the Pinnical. I think I've shaved almost 10 oz. from it since I've had it.

Overall I really like my GoLite pack and have been pleased with it. I'm considering moving to a Jam 2 soon for the smaller pack volume.

How do you secure the trekking poles in them? Do you put the handle through the bottom loop then through the top portion and cinch down the bungie under the handle?

Mike, how did you manage to reduce the Pinnacle weight 10 ounces? What modifications did you make?

I put the basket on my trekking pole in the bottom loop, and use the upper loop around the handle. It would work either way though.

Water does indeed seep through the fabric on the top. I had no expectation of it being waterproof though.

Gary,

Now that you ask and I look at the numbers again 10 oz. seems a bit extreme. But when I look at the advertised weights (I know a little optimistic at times) of 30 oz. and my current weight of 19.5 oz I'm having a hard time believing it myself. All I really did was trim excess slack from the straps, removed "Compactor" system, removed the hydration sleeve and the foam sheet from the back.
I can't find anything with my starting weight before modifications. Is the newer model that much heavier? If anyone has the stock weight from last years Pinnical please post. Don't get me wrong, you can trim oz. but I really have to reevaluate my 10 oz. statement (Disclaimer: the previous statement was made after a long shift, I was a bit sleepy).

My size medium Pinnacle, which I think is a 2008 model, weights 25 or maybe 26 ounces with absolutely no modifications.

Andrew skurka's website lists a pinnacle (chopped I'm sure) at 20.7 ounces.

5 ounce drop after removing backpanel foam, trimming straps etc sounds about right.

Dan

Edited by dag4643 on 07/22/2009 11:40:42 MDT.

Ahhhh... Thanks Daniel. I started to think I was getting REALLY good at this UL thing. My bad everyone... I shed 5-6 oz.

Mike,

Thanks for the tip about turning the pack inside out...that sounds like a good idea.

The Jam2 (and Pinnacle I believe) didn get a number of updates for 2009. You can read about them here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=18399

The hip pockets are new, but with that (and other changes) comes a significant weight increase from about 20oz to 27oz I believe.

Edited by dandydan on 07/22/2009 12:00:56 MDT.

Joe: "I put the basket on my trekking pole in the bottom loop, and use the upper loop around the handle. It would work either way though."

This sounds like a good setup. Thanks for the tip.

I'm somewhat surpised GoLite puts ice axe loops on these packs. I mean, how many people actually use these packs for ice climbing/mountaineering? It seems like anyone doing those activities would want a bigger pack.

Edited by dandydan on 07/22/2009 12:02:38 MDT.

No sweat, Mike. I picked up a medium '08 women's Pinnacle this spring at GoLite's warehouse clearance sale (they were out of men's Pinnacles, and the sales guy said that men's and women's packs were essentially the same). It weighs 1# 9 oz, like Daniel's. My '09 large men's Jam 2 weighs 1# 11.2 oz. The only difference I see between the women's medium and my men's Jam 2 is the volume (of course), the hip belt pockets on the '09 Jam, and the load lifters on the '08 Pinnacle. The positioning of the shoulder straps and waist belts look identical (although the customer service gal at GoLite told me the men's and women's packs were designed differently). But the '08 women's has rather short shoulder straps (nothing to trim there) and very little excess on the waist belt straps. So I guess removal of the foam and the compressor straps is the only way to reduce the weight. Still, 5+ oz. is significant.

Edited by Zia-Grill-Guy on 07/22/2009 12:15:47 MDT.

Dan, to make things much easier on you, turn the pack inside-out and use household scizzors to remove the inner hydration sleeve, and the foam pad (if you are using another means of padding/pack support)
ripping the threads is tedious work and you are more likely to slip and put a nice gash in the pack body.

fwiw, i took my '08 Jam2 at 21oz and trimmed it to 16.6
i then sold it in favor of the Conduit :P

Actually I have been using my wife's Jam2 for mountaineering! It holds my ice tools and everything I need for any daytrip and some overnight stuff. It's not a half bad pack until you overload it weight wise.

I have a Pinnacle and cut about 5 ounces off, leaving the foam pad in. I mean, the foam provides the only support the pack has. But whatever. Point is, I cut the other weight just by shortening all the straps, removing the ice axe stuff, cutting out the hydration sleeve, swapping the drawcord with some spectra, and something else that I seem to have forgotten. To get that last bit of an ounce you could use the seam ripper on the hydration sleeve; I just cut mine out with some scissors to save the headache.

I turned my Jam2 inside out last night....it was very easy to do. I'm going to use a seam ripper on the two long side seams of the hydration sleeve, but I might cut it along the bottom because that seam is really in tight with other very critical seams which I don't want to damage.

How easy was it to swap the drawcord for Spectra?

I'm hoping to shorten the straps, but I really like how they are doubled back right now. This prevents you from accidentally pulling the strap all the way through the buckle. Did you fold yours and restitch them when you cut them? Or did you just use super glue?

Very easy to swap drawcord--just tie on and pull through. Frankly, not much weight savings at all... Stock straps have about an extra foot of strap; I left about 4 or 5 inches and just melted the ends, but didn't bother folding the new ends back. You could, and it would be simple. I also shortened the hipbelt webbing (way too long) and load lifter straps (an extra ? inches each). I was going to cut off the water bottle pockets on the outside, but they're pretty darn handy, so they stay.

How well did the melting work for the strap ends? Does it look ghetto? Would you recommend this over super glue?

I want to start mod'ing my Jam2 but my scale is in the mail right now. I could just keep all the bits to figure out the original weight at a later date...hmm...

Hi Dan,

It's pretty easy to do on a gas burner. Just make your cut and before it begins to fray, bring the cut edge against the flame from the side, working it a little at a time as you watch the nylon melt and fuse.

It's a little tougher with wide webbing than narrow, but practice with your discarded end to get the hang of it and you'll probably find you're getting "factory fresh" results.

You don't need no stinking glue :-)

Cheers,

Rick

p.s. I used my new Jam2 for the first time last weekend. What a comfy pack it is for a frameless.

Edited by halfturbo on 07/23/2009 16:47:33 MDT.

I find a long stick lighter works great for this.
I use to use a hot nail to cut the strapping but it was a hassle to keep the nail hot (I used a plumbers torch).
Now a use a sharp pair of scissors and the long stick lighter.

Thanks guys....I foresee a little strap cutting coming up this evening.

Dan, I just want to confirm your suspician on the bottom seam being critical. I removed my hydration sleeve by seam ripping all 3 seams. It went fine until I got to the bottom seam. It holds the entire bottom together. It was not easy to get it back together...so yes just cut the sleeve at that point.

BTW, I got my Jam2 (08 version) down to 16.75 oz while still keeping the foam back pad and pocket. I cut down the straps, removed the hydration sleeve, removed the strenum strap and cut off the belt.

I kept the foam pad as it helps greatly when using the Jam2 as a day pack. I use the compactor system and sometimes just store my day items in the back pocket.

Jamie

I just finished my first round of modifications. First, I removed the hydration bladder. It was easy. I used a razor blade and a multi-tool knife serrated blade. I started in the middle of one of the long sides and cut a few stiches with the serrated multi-tool blade. Once I had a few stiches out, it was easy. You could kinda pull the stitches out from then on, you just had to cut off the string as it was getting too long every 5-10 stitches. I used the razor blade on the corners to get into the crack between the bladder fabric and the backpanel. Everything went smooth and after 10 minutes all I had left to do was the bottom edge. I didn't want to mess with this seam, so I just used my razor blade to cut the bladder fabric off as low as I could, and then cut off any dangling threads and called it a win. I'm excited for my scale to arrive so I can weigh this beast and see how many grams I've shaved off.

Next up was some strap cutting. I didn't want to cut the roll top strap or the side compression straps yet because I really need to get the pack fully loaded before I have an idea of how much extra strap I have. I might want to use the side compression straps joined to one another to hold a ridgerest on the back of the pack. If you were only going to use the side compression straps as compression straps, you could cut off a whole lot. Probably a foot.

The straps I did cut as the sterum strap, the two shoulder straps and the waist strap. I cut off 3.5", 6" x 2 and 8" x 2 respectively. Looking at the scraps, I've got a decent pile here. It could weigh an ounce. I'm guessing the strap cutting shaved off an ounce and the hydration bladder 1 to 1.5oz. I really have no idea though. Hopefully my scale gets here soon.

Oh and the melting the ends trick was awesome. It was very easy to do and gave very satisfying results. I love it. I also really like how neat my packs looks when I wear it and there isn't straps dangling everywhere. I would do this mod purely for aesthetics alone. Now I just need to get those side compression straps and roll top strap cut. I also am considering removing one of the 'organizer pockets' inside the hip pockets. I can imagine using one of these for my keys, but I don't know why I'd need two. None of my other packs even have these and there are very few things I carry that are small enough to even fit in here. On the flip side, I doubt they weigh much though. Probably 1/10th of whatever the bladder weighs.

Edited by dandydan on 07/23/2009 22:21:50 MDT.

I thought those 'organizer pockets' inside the waist belt pockets were a stroke of genius! I didn't know they were in there when I ordered my pack but I was pleased they were. Like you say they hold keys perfectly in one side and they hold my lip balm and 1oz sunscreen in the other. These little items were always getting lost under Honey Stingers, Snickers and gloves in my old packs.

I've been modding along behind you. Cut the bladder sleeve out and cut the straps down. Yeah, it's only grams saved but it sure looks neater.

I got my new scale in the mail last night so I could finally evalutate my modifications. The accuracy of the scale is appearing very good, despite being only $3 on eBay. A bunch of my gear that I weighed on an expensive scale at work last summer weighed exactly the same (to the nearest gram) on this new scale. Nothing was off by more than a gram which is remarkable.

To refresh you, I have removed the hydration bladder and cut the main waist straps, sterum strap and the shoulder straps. The bits of strap I have cut off weigh a total of 25 grams. The waist belt straps were the bulk of that weight since they are much larger straps. I go into detail in a previous post, but I think I cut off about 5-6" off most of the straps. By cutting the compression straps and roll top strap I could probably shave off another 10g. I'll likely do that at some point. I could also shave off more weight with more aggresive trimming, but I want to leave a couple inches of buffer for times I'm wearing more clothes or when someone else might be using the pack.

The hydration bladder sleeve and hook that I removed weighed 28 grams (exactly 1 ounce).

My pack now weighs 699g. The intial weight spec'd on GoLite's website is 753g and my scraps account for 53g, so in my packs original form, it weighed 752g. Kudos to GoLite for being so darn accurate with their weights.

Today I weighed the piece the foam used in the backpanel at 34g (1.2oz). If you were sure you never want to use this, you could also cut out the sleeve it seems and probably shave off another ounce.

I'm guessing here, but the hipbelt pockets have got to weigh 1 ounce each. So if you really wanted to shave weight you could shave off atleast 2oz here.

I just cut 6 ounces off the LARGE size JAM2. (the newest version)


----


Reply To Chris W. below:

No, it's the 2009 version.

Edited by mikeclelland on 08/03/2009 16:08:46 MDT.

I just cut 6 ounces off the LARGE size JAM2. (the newest version)

Newest meaning the 2010 they made 2 lbs?

I really don't understand all this hacking on a perfectly good pack, just the ways it is? Why not just purchase a lighter weight pack?

I'll probably never use the hyd. sleeve on my Jam2's. Yeah, I got a medium now, and a large on the way. But, I don't feel the need to remove it, to save 2oz or whatever?

No way would I ever hack off hip-belt pockets, as they're way to useful.
Although, they don't look like they will be very water resistant, and I'll probably have to resort to using pint size ziplock bags to line the pockets?

The reason to cut off stuff is to make the pack lighter.

I have a 3.7 oz gossamer gear pack, and I managed to cut some stuff off that too!! Got it down to 3.4 oz!!!

@ Michael: "I really don't understand all this hacking on a perfectly good pack, just the ways it is? Why not just purchase a lighter weight pack?"

The Jam2 is starting to have a lot of features....some of them nice and some of them useless to some owners. It's nice to start with these features and then cut off the ones you don't need, instead of getting a pack with none of these features.

Personally, I like the hip pockets a lot so I'm keeping those, but the hydration sleeve and extra straps can go for sure. I've shaved off atleast 2 oz now, which might not sound like a lot but it gives me the option of either having a 2oz lighter pack, or adding 2oz of luxuries. For example, I can now take my Jam and a big fat cigar for the same weight as you take just your Jam.

@ Mike C: "I just cut 6 ounces off"

Care to go into more detail? I imagine you cut out the hydration sleeve (1oz), removed the foam in the back (1oz), cuz the straps (1-2oz) and what else? Did you remove the sterum strap? Waist pockets?

NIXED with scissor:
================

- ice axe loops

- side compression straps

- I cut off the top inch of fabric, where the draw cord was sewn over. It's gone. I used a lighter and seared the edge of the fabric. I poked holes and threaded a teeny-weeny string (masons line) like a old navy sea-bag.

- shortened every strap as short as I could get away with.

- Cut out the pocket inside that held the foam pad (this includes the water bladder holder.

- the pad is gone

- the dorky little key holder

- I removed the BIG sternum strap and replaced it with tiny webbing and tiny fastex (I used the side compression strap webbing and fastex)

- I removed the BIG waist strap and replaced it with tiny webbing and tiny fastex (I used the side compression strap webbing and fastex)

- I kept the side pockets on the hip padding

- I kept the side pockets on the body of the pack

(it totals 7 oz exactly when I way my pile of detritus)

May as well cut out the zipper from the front pocket too. You can sew in a small piece of velcro for a closure.Heck, cut the front pocket out completely.

I have cut the zippered pocket off completely on another pack JAM, and I like it.

Its insane and senseless butchery, I tell YA!!!!

If you want to remove the enormous waist strap and replace it with the side compression straps (thanks Mike for the idea) or just a smaller strap, an easy way is to leave an inch or so of the old waist strap and attach the smaller strap directly to it. This way you don't have to mess with the seams or stitching inside the hip pocket. I used some super glue first and then let it set overnight. I then trimmed the old strap to match the narrower strap. Then I took it to a shoe repair place and they stitched the two straps together. The new waist strap is not only much lighter but also looks much better. Whoever decided to use a 1.5 inch belt needs to go directly to UL training school. They can go with the person who designed the sternum strap and the one who decided to put two compression straps on each side instead of one in the middle and the person...

Neat idea....if I knew how to sew I would do this for sure.

I did trim my side compression straps a couple days ago so they are only long enough to function as compression straps. No longer can I join the two sides together behind the pack to attach external stuff (ie. a bedroll). I can't see that I would ever need to do that, and if I did I could also use some rope to tie it on. Trimming about 10" off these straps saved about 3g/strap or 12g total.

I also removed the elastic loops off the hipbelt strap as they are no longer needed when you trim the strap so there isn't excess hanging off.

These mods are in addition to my previous mods (removed hydration bladder, trimmed sternum strap, shoulder straps and waist belt strap) so now my 2009 Jam weighs 688g down from 755g. Most of the savings came from removing the hydration bladder (about 30g) and trimming the waist belt strap. The other straps are so darn light it hardly makes a difference but it does give the pack a cleaner look. Now that I've done this I can't stand the look of a pack with excess strapping hanging off everywhere. It's just sloppy.

Edited by dandydan on 08/22/2009 02:10:27 MDT.

You really don't need to know how to sew. I said super glue but the specific brand was "Gorilla Glue." The bond that that glue creates is strong enough that it would be fine just gluing and not stitching together. The only problem with gluing two straps together is that they become stiff. It is only an inch so it doesn't really matter but stitching without gluing might be a better approach. Just a guess but I would think that most dry cleaners that do sewing could probably stitch the two straps together if you don't glue first because the straps will still be soft and a normal sewing machine should work.

This thread was referenced in a thread on lightening the pinnacle and a difference in the two designs is worth noting.

It seems the hydration pocket in the Jam2 has its lower seam intermingled with pack structure. I want to make it clear that this is not the case in the pinnacle. The stitching holding the pinnacle's hydration sleeve is single purpose and can be easily removed with a seam ripper or other tool on all three sides.

I suspect the 2 different height packs, share an identical sleeve, which is placed a standard distance from the top, resulting in a generous distance from the bottom edge in the larger pinnacle and an easier deletion.