Just thought some of you would find this interesting. If you read the gospels, you will find that Jesus instructed his disciples to not take ANYTHING with them when they hiked from place to place. Other than the clothes on their back they took nothing. NOT EVEN WATER if my memory serves me well. Jesus had it all figured out, he knew that his father (God) had created the world to supply all of our needs (water) and had already set in place people they would come across to help with their other needs. Jesus, the original SUL backpacker...what a concept!!

send this to CHAFF - oh, baby send this to chaff

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 07/16/2009 21:41:05 MDT.

Unprepared beggar and mooches!

ha well i guess thats another way of looking at things.

I'm with Tom on this one.

In Australia he'd be called a bludger:

BLUDGER: noun, a person who lives off the efforts of others; a person who does not pay his fair share or who does not make a fair contribution to a cost, enterprise, etc., a cadger; an idler, one who makes little effort

I'm going to go ahead and fall on the side that I think he paid his fair share...

"In Australia he'd be called a bludger:

BLUDGER: noun, a person who lives off the efforts of others; a person who does not pay his fair share or who does not make a fair contribution to a cost, enterprise, etc., a cadger; an idler, one who makes little effort"

The Romans dealt harshly with bludgers. ;}

Keep in mind that Jesus lived in a desert. I'm always amazed when I see photos of New Testament locations just how truly arid the places can be. Sure there are fertile areas like the banks of the Jordan, but still even the arid southwest US doesn't compare. My point is I don't think hypothermia was his greatest concern.

I can appreciate your parallel in so far as simple living / take only what you need goes. But Jesus would have taken much bigger risks in much of the temperate US as most of Europe. The one exception of course is water. I can only assume Jesus and his disciples knew the local reliable watering holes.

I also don't think this relates purely to lightweight gear, as I doubt Jesus would have been buying expensive silnylon or titanium, either.

I believe this distant relative predated Jesus...

"Keep in mind that Jesus lived in a desert....My point is I don't think hypothermia was his greatest concern."

Whoa there, deserts can get downright cold at night. I used to live in Arizona and when I would leave for work at 5AM I needed a hot drink to stay warm. No humidity=no heat retention.

"The one exception of course is water. I can only assume Jesus and his disciples knew the local reliable watering holes."

Boy did they ever. They had soo much spare water that they turned some of into wine.

I think Jesus was probably just a pampered academic who convinced other folks to look after his basic needs. Accepting and encouraging charity towards oneself is more a sign of good salesmanship than it is bludging. I tend to think of Jesus as more of a busker than a bludger.

"Whoa there, deserts can get downright cold at night. I used to live in Arizona and when I would leave for work at 5AM I needed a hot drink to stay warm. No humidity=no heat retention."

I still live in the desert. I have seen it get as low as 18°F here and it often gets into the 20°'s in December, January and February.

"I think Jesus was probably just a pampered academic who convinced other folks to look after his basic needs. Accepting and encouraging charity towards oneself is more a sign of good salesmanship than it is bludging. I tend to think of Jesus as more of a busker than a bludger."

And you are basing this on what?

"And you are basing this on what?"

The fact that he had a following of admirers. I haven't yet met a real bludger who had a string of admirers following them around, but I have often seen people visit regularly and throw some coins into the hat of a busker they admired.

I'm not just singling out Jesus either. Many of the great prophets had this gift of the gab that made people WANT to donate to their upkeep, rather than begrudgingly supporting a bludger. Same applies to modern day evagelists and preists, etc...if the support is given willingly rather than begrudgingly, I would consider it more like busking than bludging. They entertain us or otherwise make us feel good or give us hope, so we donate to their cause. It's been going on as long as their have been shamans...

Edited by retropump on 07/16/2009 20:18:36 MDT.

I think the Australian Aborigines knew something about walking SUL in deserts 40000 years before Jesus came on the scene.

This probably could be said for many other indigenous cultures pre Jesus.

Tony

I'm realllly struggling to exercise restraint and stay away from this thread.

Oh boy...

"This probably could be said for many other indigenous cultures pre Jesus."

And post Jesus. The Kalahari tribe is also a nice example of how to travel through a desert without carrying much more than a loin cloth.

What Would Jesus Carry?

--UL Firearms? (Turn the other cheek notwithstanding)

--Would he leash his pet? (Even the dog gets the crumbs from the Master's table, after all)

--Carry his own firewood? (God didn't mind burning up that bush as I recall!)

--Leave No Trace! (Wipe the dust from your feet and move on...)

--What about music in the backcountry (Supposedly the rocks and trees will sing out, but I'm skeptical).

--Can't see him smoking near other campers....at least that one's easy.

Edited by Rezniem on 07/16/2009 21:38:47 MDT.

He was a bit of a con artist, if you ask me.
He liked to pretend he was travelling UL, but carrying that magic kit was cheating. As soon as he was out of sight of other folks, he probably conjured up some nice warm clothes, sleeping gear and the best of titanium cookware. If he got hungry, a plate of bread and fish with a gallon or two of wine soon sorted that. :)

I understand deserts can get cold; I grew up in a desert. I've been in below freezing temps with howling winds in Joshua Tree NP, and I've camped in snow on the rim of the Grand Canyon. But Joshua Tree is 3000-4000ft elevation, and as I recall most of Arizona is part of the Colorado plateau. I'm almost positive most lowland deserts in the Mideast are warmer; I've read of 140 deg F days, which you simply don't hear of in the US outside Death Valley--which is actually a closer approximation to the Dead Sea area and temps than Arizona.

Besides, the passage referred to did mention clothing, and there were shepherds among them; surely they switched to a thicker wool robe in winter, not the satin tablecloth garments most reenactments of Jesus use. And we're really talking about a few pre-dawn hours for most of the year.

I would like to stress that these are all educated guesses on my part. I'm just trying to point out that Jesus could never have asked for this in Northern Europe. Or Oregon for that matter. Spending 14 hours of darkness in February in 33 degree drizzle along the coast is not the same as 33 degrees in Jerusalem. But I'm sure he would have still preached a message of self sacrifice and humility, and of going into nature to reconnect with one's self and one's god.

On a side note, I have always found it fascinating that most of the great early civilizations thrived in warm to hot weather climates, usually on the banks of a major mountain river. Obviously this allowed for year-round agriculture but with reliable access to fresh water. Makes me appreciate central heating and trucking routes...

And please, let's not let this thread slip into religious banter...plenty of other sites for that.

Edited by jcarter1 on 07/17/2009 06:00:37 MDT.