MSR Carbon Reflex 2
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Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Footprint on 07/31/2009 15:19:04 MDT Print View

BTW, according to the BPL review the CR2 footprint weighs 179g.

This means the fly (501g), footprint (179g) and poles (220g) weighs exactly 900g. Impressively, MSR claims 900g for this setup which is cool to see they are bang on.

Realistically, you'd want to bring 6 pegs too (60g) and probably the main sack (43g) so you'd be about 1000g for this setup. I think this would be a pretty sick setup for late season camping when bugs aren't an issue. It's just under 2lbs! This is an option you wouldn't have with a single wall.

Without the tent body, you'd also probably have more floorspace because the tent floor is pulled narrower by the poles, which wouldn't be the case with the footprint. You'd probably have 46" or so of width.

Fly/Footprint/Poles setup on CR2

BTW, I cut the 'door flap' off the main stuff sack so that saved 3g! Now my main sack weighs 40g.

Edited by dandydan on 07/31/2009 15:19:46 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
enjoying the tent on 08/23/2009 20:18:31 MDT Print View

so far not a single complaint w/ this tent. it is a little on the narrow side, but not overly so (this is my wife and I- two big guys?????). plenty of room to sit up, pitches very easy and have had it in winds approaching 35 mph (no guy lines) and it was fine. a few nights there was mild condensation (fly zipped completely down), nothing dramatic no dripping or the like- if I leave the fly even partially unzipped-very little to no condensation

spent a couple of nights in it w/ moderate rain, handled it w/ no issues

I too ditched the pole bag and wrap them in the main tent, I do take the stake bag though as it doubles as my "rock" bag for bear hanging

only take 6 stakes, leave the main stuff sack and repair sleeve at home

looks like our weights jive pretty well as in that configuration, mine weighs 47.5 oz

I did purchase the footprint, but haven't used it yet (except to try the tentless pitch in the backyard)- it works pretty slick in that orientation, if I know it's going to be bug free I'm going to give it a go :)

Photobucket

Edited by mtwarden on 08/24/2009 08:21:34 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
cr2 on 08/23/2009 23:29:38 MDT Print View

At 8g, I think the repair sleeve is probably a wise thing to bring along since you'd be totally hooped without it if a pole cracked (or do you have another idea?).

So your CR2 weighs 475oz???? Wow....that's like 30 lbs :)

Tell me more about not using the main stuff sack. Do just toss your rolled up tent into your pack and pack stuff around it to keep it rolled up? Or do you not roll it up and just stuff it in your pack? Do you stuff it in another stuff sack with other gear? I like to keep the poles securely rolled up in the center because I'd hate to take a fall and smack them off a rock.

I'm considering not using the main sack (43g) but I'm also thinking about switching to a lighter sack. The supplied main sack is probably twice as heavy as it needs to be because it's considerably too large and it has that heavy black fabric on the end which probably weighs 5-10g. You can also get mesh sacks that are pretty light like this:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699989&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441931557

I'm thinking that in the future I'm going to leave behind the small peg sack, mostly for simplicity reasons. I'm going to put 6 pegs and the repair sleeve in my main gear stuff sack that I keep all my misc stuff in (mug, spork, headlamp, lighter, first aid etc).

Edited by dandydan on 08/24/2009 00:03:02 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
decimal point would help :) on 08/24/2009 08:30:20 MDT Print View

that would be pretty heavy :)

I roll the main tent around the poles, secured w/ a ponytail holder and stored up/down in my pack

the fly is rolled (also secured w/ a ponytail holder) and stuffed sideways (in my wife's pack :))

I'd probably ditch the stake bag as well, but it makes a great rock bag for my bear hanging kit

I agree that the stuff sack it comes w/ is overly heavy, I'm sure a lighter one could be found (or ditched completely)

I have a small ti windscreen that in pinch I'm pretty sure I could fashion into a sleeve (w/ a little help from some duct tape)- I hope I never have to test this theory

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Re: decimal point would help :) on 08/24/2009 15:19:36 MDT Print View

Interesting.....the hair elastic idea sounds good. I'll try this but I'll probably roll the poles, body and fly all together in one roll to pad the poles more and keep everything together (plus I'd need fewer elastics).

Regarding the rock bag...I never use one. I normally just tie my bear bag rope around a rock or stick and toss that. I guess I do need to be a bit more picky with my rock selection but it's never really been a problem yet. Worse case scenario I could use some other piece of my gear instead of a rock. I'm thinking that my 1L platyBottle would be an acceptable throwing object if it's mostly full. Another object that would work is my rain jacket when it's stuffed into its pocket.

Golden Ears

Edited by dandydan on 08/24/2009 15:24:16 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Hair Elastics on 08/24/2009 15:56:08 MDT Print View

I'm loving your hair elastic idea. I just got 2 old ones from my wife and they weigh 1.5g each. So that's 3g (or 0.1oz) for a pair of them. For comparison, the main stuff sack weighs 43g and that's after I cut off the unnecessarily flap in the opening.

So anyways, that's 40g saved (43g vs. 3g) which is awesome! In total I've shaved off 109g off my CR2 by ditching all 3 stuff sacks, 2 guy lines and 2 pegs. My total setup weighs 1368 grams (3.02 lbs or 48.3oz) or 969g (2.13 lbs or 34.2oz) in fly/footprint mode.

I wonder what other weight could be saved? I don't think there is too much potential with gear modifications. There is probably a 'made in taiwan' tag hanging somewhere inside that weighs 0.1g. You could perhaps trim some of the straps a bit too....not sure this is a good idea because it's nice to have the strap loops at the ends to pull on.

Oh, one idea is there is those clips inside the tent body which are attached to the body via a bit of narrow strap. These appear to be for hanging a gear loft inside the tent, but to my knowledge no gear loft is available. These probably don't weigh much but perhaps a few grams could be saved because there is at least 4 of these.

I would love to check out what the possibilities are for modifications but it's tough to set this tent up indoors since it's not freestanding.

I'm also curious what options there are for lighter pegs. The supplied pegs are quite strong which is nice but they do weigh 10g each which is 60-80g total (about 2-3oz). I wonder if there are some nice titanium pegs out there that weigh about half this....time to do some research.

Edited by dandydan on 08/24/2009 16:14:14 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
stakes on 08/24/2009 18:02:12 MDT Print View

nice pic :)

I bought six of these:

http://www.ultralightdesigns.com/products/shelter/tiUL-Stake.html

they are light (~ 5g), but I'm not sure how much I'd trust them- pretty puny compared to the MSR pegs (which I've found pretty stout)- been afraid to try them on a trip

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Pegs and Footprint on 08/26/2009 15:36:21 MDT Print View

Nice pegs. Perhaps you could take one MSR peg to create 'pilot holes' and then use the Ti stakes in those pre-created holes.

I picked up the CR2 footprint yesterday. $35 seems like a good price for this. Unfortunately it weighs 204g which is 25g higher than I was expecting. The BPL review lists the weight at 179g but I'm not sure if they actually measured this, or if that's MSRs claimed weight. Whatever the case, this is 25g higher than expected, which means I would need to buy five 5g Ti stakes just to cancel this out....of course the Ti stakes would still save me weight in regular mode which is what I'll normally be using anyways.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
now these are light :) on 08/26/2009 20:56:21 MDT Print View

here you go Dan

http://www.moontrail.com/terra-nova-ti-1g-skewer.php

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
MSR Carbon Reflex 2 on 08/26/2009 22:30:16 MDT Print View

Dan - why the footprint? Just use Polyco. Is it to set it up fly only? If so, I think you might find it remarkably unstable in that format.

You have taken off guylines but do you not ever camp where the wind picks up?

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Re: MSR Carbon Reflex 2 on 08/26/2009 23:24:55 MDT Print View

David: "why the footprint? Just use Polyco. Is it to set it up fly only? If so, I think you might find it remarkably unstable in that format.

You have taken off guylines but do you not ever camp where the wind picks up?"

The footprint is only for times when I'm car camping (and want to minimize wear on the tent) or times when I'm using the tent in fly/footprint mode. For the majority of backpacking trips the footprint will be left at home. I'm quite confident in the 10,000mm waterproofness of the tent floor.

Regarding the guylines, the tent seems pretty solid to me with the 4 corners pegs and the 2 vestibules pegged down but I have not been in a significant wind with it yet. I think the vestibule peg outs add a lot of stability.

However, if I was in a situation where I needed guylines, I could always steal some of my bear bag cord (or even tie 2 shoe laces together) to make some. I carry about 45 feet of bear bag cord and I could always lop a few 5 ft lengths off that and still have a usable bear bag cord.

Edited by dandydan on 08/26/2009 23:25:38 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Re: now these are light :) on 08/26/2009 23:28:53 MDT Print View

Mike,

Those 1g stakes are wild. I believe BPL said they were totally unusable. I think some Ti stakes around 5g could be good though. The problem is price.....Ti stakes seem to be around $20 for a set plus shipping which is at least $10 since I'm in Canada. That means I'd be paying about $30 to save maybe 30 grams (1 oz). That's a lot....$1/gram.

I'm tempted by the idea, but I think there are other ways I can cut weight right now for under $1 per gram. Still.....titanium is a fun (geek) material. I would love to have them.

These 4g carbon fibre stakes look pretty cool.
http://www.moontrail.com/terra-nova-carbon-fibre-peg.php

Edited by dandydan on 08/26/2009 23:30:59 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Ti Stakes on 08/30/2009 13:42:08 MDT Print View

I picked up some Ti stakes on eBay. I got a 6 pack of those 6g titaniums shepards hook stakes for $9.99 Buy It Now plus $6 shipping to Canada. There's still another set on there if someone else wants some too.

If I'm worried about the strength of these stakes then I'll take one 10g MSR stake along to create pilot holes. With 5 or 6 of these I'll save 20-24g. That's 60g worth of stakes down to 36 or 40g.

I gotta say the MSR supplied stakes seem pretty nice though. At 10g the weight isn't rediculous and they are plenty strong, easy to insert and brightly colored for visability.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Trimming on 09/02/2009 22:06:37 MDT Print View

I set up my CR2 inside today to see what weight could be trimmed. I observed 6 fabric loops inside the tent that run along underneath the main pole. These loops have no apparent purpose but I do find one handy to hang my glasses from at night. I suppose that a gear loft could be strung from these loops but none is offered from MSR (maybe they do for the Hubba Hubba?) and even if one was I can't see myself adding the weight.

I cut off three of these loops leaving the two near the top of the tent (at either end of where the white fabric is) and leaving one more above my head so I can hang my glasses. The three that I trimmed off weighed it at a whopping 0.7g on my scale (combined). Hmm....hardly worth it. I would need to trim off over 100 similarly heavy objects to save an ounce of this tent. So potentially 1.4g of weight savings is available by trimming off these loops and I realized half of that.

There are also two more tabs inside the tent at the top of each zipper. These look a bit beefier than the previously discussed tabs, but they still don't likely weigh more than 0.5g each or 1g total. I didn't cut these off because they are useful to pull on when you are undoing the zipper.

Besides the tabs, I considered trimming 1 or 2 of the corner pockets out of the tent. The CR2 has a mesh pocket in each corner which is a lot. I could definitely get by with just 2 inside of 4. However, I figured the potential savings are only in the 2-3 gram range (0.1oz) per pocket, so I let them remain since that might raise eyebrows if I ever have a warranty issue and the pocket capacity might come in handy someday.

On the outside of the body, I noticed that the two strap loops that the cross pole fits into aren't entirely being used. The strap is sewn in a loop, but the bottom half of the loop is slack so you could trim this. This strap looks a bit more substantial than the loops inside, but it still doesn't likely weigh more than a gram and it does come in handy for clipping the cross pole in and out. I think you could safely trim about half the fabric away and you would actually increase the functionality of the tent because you wouldn't have to pull the loop out of the way to attach the fly, but I opted to leave this alone for now because the weight savings were trivial and I want to think about it a bit more before making such a permanent alteration to the tent.

So in total I spent about 20 minutes working with the tent and saved 0.7g....no so great. This is making my Ti stakes look amazing as they will save 6 x 4g or 24g...nearly an ounce.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
MSR Carbon Reflex 2 on 09/02/2009 22:15:20 MDT Print View

Dan, step away from the knife....

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: Trimming on 09/02/2009 22:38:52 MDT Print View

So in total I spent about 20 minutes working with the tent and saved 0.7g.

Lol. Keep up the good work! At this rate, I've calculated that if you work for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, then in around 6 months time you will have dropped 5 pounds from your base weight!

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Another 0.7g on 09/03/2009 01:12:25 MDT Print View

Ha Ha....just you guys wait until I go at the fly. I'm going to dip it in acid to remove the waterproofing, thus saving several grams. On wet nights I'll just wear my rain gear to bed and stuff my Ultra 20 quilt inside my rain gear. ^_^

Edited by dandydan on 09/03/2009 01:14:03 MDT.