While I was getting responses to the injinji/leather (3 lb.) boots thread, I picked up an old PCT book by Ray Jardine. I "just so happened" to turn to his discussion on boots vs trail shoes. Lately I've been having lateral knee ligament pain on certain declines. I've added more quad strengthening and stretches per my PT. But with minimal to no plantar-flexion from my boots, I'm now seriously considering changing to a trail or mid boot. :/
My concerns:
1)JMT in 3 weeks...little late, I know!
2)not having something over my ankles
3)pack weight 30-35lbs w/ water
4)JMT terrain:granite, creeks and dirt
I've been on Whitney a couple times, but not this many miles. I'm currently training in Lassen.
So any quick thoughts, esp. from those in the Sierras?

Edited by bumpass on 07/04/2009 22:51:50 MDT.

I hiked the JMT last year wearing a pair of Montrail Hardrocks and a pair of Dirty Girl gaiters. The gaiters are great for keeping sand, gravel and horse guano out of your shoes. I had no problems with either the shoes or my feet.

Since I am prone to plantar fasciitis, I need to be careful with my footwear. Fortunately, the JMT is a relatively smooth, well graded trail. I broke the shoes in on the rocky gullies we call trails here in SE Arizona so I knew they would handle the smoother trails of the Sierra.

It is hard to see them but my avatar shows me in my Hardrocks and Dirty Girls atop Glen Pass. Rae Lakes in the background. I have been using running shoes for hiking and climbing since the early 1970's so I knew I wouldn't have ankle problems.

Edited by Rincon on 06/28/2009 19:29:47 MDT.

I say wear your most comfortable running shoes/trail runners and do your best to keep your load light.
I did the JMT in a pair of street Asics. Being on your feet for 8+ hours a day, I can't imagine why anyone would choose something stiff, hot, not breathable, and hard to get on and off. I think boots do nothing but invite blisters.

The JMT is not mountaineering- 99% is relatively hard-packed singletrack that isn't much more technical than a sidewalk or any city park trail. As for creeks, boots are a nightmare. Soak them and you're wet for a day. Soak your running shoes and you're fine in an hour.

Another vote for Dirty Girl Gaiters! They're super light and breathable, cheap, and ship really fast. A great compliment to trail runners.

Edited by xnomanx on 06/28/2009 19:20:49 MDT.

Hi Sheila,

I will be doing the JMT in late August wearing Montrail Namche's with superfeet blue insoles. These insoles work well with my lower arches to resist over-pronation and the shoe supports my war-torn ankles. The Namche is a lightweight mid-height trail runner. I believe you can still find these online for cheap. Inov8 makes a similar model and Montrail now has a mid height Hard Rock model although it may only be available with GoreTex liner.

Not sure what shoes/boots you were planning on wearing before now? Stock insoles or something else? Will you be using trekking poles?

I find a big help for knee pain on downhills to be a combination of good insoles and a shoe that keeps your foot from sliding forward in the shoe. A lot of stress on the knees begins in the angle of the foot plant and fatigue in the lower legs and feet makes it worse. Any slipping of the shoe on the ground or foot inside the shoe will transfer the stress up the leg to your knee. Having a stable foot plant relieves fatigue on all those stabilizer muscles in the lower leg and keeps everything in line.

Trying to avoid any big descents at the end of the day when your legs are tired should also help.

As others have said.. the JMT is well graded with almost no scrambling or particularly difficult terrain. Much of the trail seems more like a back country super highway. Pretty bunch anything that has a moderately aggressive sole with be just fine. The only think that doesn't work are nearly smooth sole tennis court shoes. They are fine on the solid granite, but really dangerous when there is lose material cause they just slide.

I have been very happy using Inov-8 310 Flyrocs along the JMT. They have good traction, light weight, very breathable, dry reasonable quickly if my feet get dunked. The only downside is that the mesh lets in dust which means socks and feet get dirty faster than ideal. Note: I found that switching to flexible sole shoes had me using my calf muscles more than I did with more traditional shoes... this took a bit of time to get used to.

As what would be good for you... sounds like you have a professional to talk with about the knee so I would recommend discussing what's best with them. My personal experience is that my knees got a lot better when I ditched my heavy, relatively inflexible boots and switched to trail runners. I have been even better with ultra flexible soles like inov-8s. My understanding is that the foot system is pretty remarkable, and that the knee and hip take less shock when going barefoot or using a shoe with a flexible sole like the inov-8. That said, switching footwear a few weeks before a major trip brings with it an element of risk.

There are a number of things to help ease pressure on your knees... dump as much pack weight as you can (I found that there was a big difference for *me* if I kept my pack weight below around 30lbs), use poles, a hinged knee brace, being careful to take your decent slow and careful.

--mark

Edited by verber on 06/28/2009 20:15:24 MDT.

"But with minimal to no dorsi-flexion from my boots, I'm now seriously considering changing to a trail or mid boot. :/
My concerns:
1)JMT in 3 weeks...little late, I know!
2)not having something over my ankles
3)pack weight 30-35lbs w/ water
4)JMT terrain:granite, creeks and dirt"

It would be worth taking a look at either the Montrail Namche or the Inov8 Roclite 370. Light, mid-height with good ankle support, good tread, comfortable out of the box IF they are going to fit you at all. Either will address your above listed concerns.

If you get a move on purchasing ANY trail runner that fits, you'll be ahead of where you are at. Find what fits your feet, there are good options out there from Inov8, Salomon and several more. Fitment is more important than a few grams. Also, keep in mind that most lightweight footware breaks in MUCH faster than boots, sometimes as fast as a day or two.

Wow.

After looking at that website I have GOT to get me some Dirty Girl Gaiters...

Merrell Moab Ventilator>

As for gaiters I have never found a pair of gaiters that do not ride up over the top of low cuts. They are just another piece of gear to worry about.

"As for gaiters I have never found a pair of gaiters that do not ride up over the top of low cuts. They are just another piece of gear to worry about."

My experience has been just the opposite. I have never had a pair of (Dirty Girl) gaiters ride up over the top of my trail runners. But, while wearing ankle-high, lightweight boots, it seems as though I am constantly shaking out small rocks etc. A lot of dedicated trail runners swear by the Dirty Girl gaiters.

I wouldn't use anything other than a trail runner. I would skip the gaiters, since a proper trail runner is all mesh anyways and your feet will turn black regardless. I didn't get many rocks in my shoe, but when I did, it took all of 5 seconds to remove them.

I assume most of you trail runner fans stay in your shoes for stream crossings?? Do you use camp shoes too? If so, what? If not, how do you keep things comfortable?
Remember we're talking the Sierras here.
Also, anyone use the Montrail Continental Divide?

Edited by bumpass on 06/29/2009 17:57:18 MDT.

I've never felt the need for camp shoes myself. Instead, I just loosen my laces.

For dealing with creek crossings, if you aren't already in the evening, you'll be moving more than long enough to dry things out. A skin lubricant such as hydropell prevents most blisters associated with wet feet and reduces/removes water absorption into hte skin.

If I'm planning a significant number of creek crossings or the weather is cool, I always bring extra socks if I'll be fording and when in camp I'll remove the insoles to speed up drying. If it's too cold to be comfortable then I'll bring a lightweight shoe for creek crossings that doubles as a camp shoe such as the vibram five fingers.

Light joggers, not waterproof.
Gaiters!!! Keeps the mud and gravel out, and also fends off sticks etc.
No camp shoes - loosen laces maybe. Often don't bother.
Bed socks - never worn in shoes.

Cheers

" assume most of you trail runner fans stay in your shoes for stream crossings?? Do you use camp shoes too? If so, what? If not, how do you keep things comfortable?
Remember we're talking the Sierras here."

What do you mean by "we're talking the Sierras here?"

Anyways, I used them for hiking, stream crossings, camp shoes, and 3 showers.

Like others I take trail runners with nothing special for stream crossings or camp. I think two pair of socks is all you *need* but I am a comfort oriented guy so sometimes I bring a third (extra comfy) pair which is just for sleeping. Wjem taking 2 pair I sometimes dedicate one pair to sleep, one to hike, but most often I hike in what I slept in the night before. The combination of how much water, how much dirt, and how cold it is seems to change what I do with socks. Unlike Jeff I haven't used them in showers (yet)... because I never thought of doing that.

For stream crossing I vary what I do. If I can see the bottom and am fairly sure barefoot is safe... that's what I do. If I am doing a single crossing I remove my socks to minimize how much water is accumulated. Otherwise I just barge on through. Walking on highly breathable shoes actually drys them out.

As far as camp shoes go... the trail runners are comfortable enough that I don't feel like I need to get out of them plus I spend very little time in "camp". I typically hike until I am ready to go to bed. In a dry camp off comes shoes and socks (maybe still wet), dry socks go on, socks (if still wet) are tucked under my shirt and are typically dry for use the next day, shoes sit out to air dry unless it's going to be below freezing in which case the go into a waterproof sack and is tucked under me (part of pillow or behind my knees under the quilt. In a wet camp I add washing feet and socks and some airing out time.

--mark

Edited by verber on 06/29/2009 19:22:53 MDT.

Mark is completely correct....though I think he meant "trail" runners instead of "train" runners.

Two pair of socks and trail runners is all you need.

I do however, spend some time at camp walking around ever so carefully barefooted to let my feet enjoy some air.

Hi Jeff,
Only referring to the Sierras' high elevations with some chilly evenings that can lead to wet cold feet vs a more humid lower elevation elsewhere. That's all.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers

Shiela,

I use the above system here in the Rockies, often camping above 9-10K. It really doesn't change much, you'll still want dry socks to sleep in and the dry air (here anyway) only helps keep your feet dryer in mesh shoe designs. You don't cross many rivers if you are hiking ridgelines, but around here we have to deal with tons of snow melt, all through the year until it freezes up again, the quick drying works just fine.

Edited by slacklinejoe on 06/29/2009 20:57:51 MDT.

Sheila,
It depends on when you are going. I went in the last half of June and I was fine. It's always very warm during the day. Your shoes might freeze at night, but they are usually dry by then since trail runners dry so quickly. It also helps that it is very dry out there. I did use midweight wool socks. I probably could have gotten by with just liner socks though. You could still get hit with a freak storm that dumps a bunch of snow with lots of clouds and cold day time temps, in which case you might have bigger problems that footwear.

Edited by TwoFortyJeff on 06/29/2009 22:19:20 MDT.