"Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks"
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Jed Augustine
(jaugusti) - F

Locale: Appalachians/Rockies
"Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks" on 05/29/2009 08:08:32 MDT Print View

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/29/schwarzenegger-would-clos_n_208941.html

Bad news. Can't figure out how to link it, sorry.

Edited by jaugusti on 05/29/2009 08:14:22 MDT.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 08:26:25 MDT Print View

Bizarre. Out of all the things in the state government, you'd think they could find more pointless things to cut. Like all state services to illegal aliens. Or welfare payments above and beyone the Federal amounts.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 08:40:29 MDT Print View

"...you'd think they could find more pointless things to cut. Like all state services to illegal aliens."

Right...because God forbid we try to provide medical care to the sick and an education for children that live here.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 08:44:26 MDT Print View

I don't like the idea of hungry kids, but you can't spend money you don't have for very long. And I would think cutting voluntary progams for people who are violating the law would be a good place to start. Guess I'll probably get sent to a re-education camp soon. But I don't live in CA, so if you guys want to close state parks and keep spending 20-40 billion a year on people who don't pay taxes, have at it.

Edited by skinewmexico on 05/29/2009 08:45:09 MDT.

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Sacramento state parks on chopping block on 05/29/2009 08:45:02 MDT Print View

Obviously, the term "state park" is used pretty loosely in CA. I'm sure these places all have value, but better to close them than areas that allow the public to experience the outdoors, IMO.
All of these places slated to close in Sacramento area require guards with salaries, security systems, janitorial staff, etc., etc.
(From Sac Bee)
In Sacramento, five of six state parks would close. Besides Sutter's Fort and the California State Capitol Museum, the plan envisions closing the Governor's Mansion, the Leland Stanford Mansion and the State Indian Museum. Old Sacramento State Historic Park, including the California State Railroad Museum, would remain open.

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Mt. Diablo, Calaveras Big Trees on chopping block, too on 05/29/2009 08:57:41 MDT Print View

I grew up in Walnut Creek and very much enjoyed the recent Mt. Diablo trip report from Jay.
From Sac Bee
"But parks best suited for campers and hikers wouldn't fare so well, as fees alone are not enough to sustain them. The governor's plan would close noted sites such as Calaveras Big Trees, Anza-Borrego Desert and Mount Diablo."

todd harper
(funnymoney) - MLife

Locale: Sunshine State
Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 09:00:07 MDT Print View

I'm with ya, Joe!

We are a (if not the MOST) charitable nation. But our country's prosperity, and the helpful programs which accompany it, is in jeopardy when we just print $$$ and give it out - let alone to those breaking the law.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 09:21:29 MDT Print View

As for those breaking the law, I'd like to see I.C.E. kicking in the doors of our fine citizens that OWN and PROFIT from the farms, the factories, the restaurants, and the construction sites that employ and often exploit illegal immigrants.
Why not start some 3AM raids out in the wealthy suburbs and throw some these fine people onto buses headed for federal detention centers?

But no...that would be TOTALLY crazy. Better to go after men, women, and children seeking basic services.


EDIT:
I'll respectfully bow out of this thread now...It's only a matter of minutes before we're chastised by the forum police for even talking about this.

Edited by xnomanx on 05/29/2009 09:49:37 MDT.

Nate Meinzer
(Rezniem) - F

Locale: San Francisco
This is a Bad idea on 05/29/2009 10:09:47 MDT Print View

But in all fairness, cutting welfare programs, etc., just ends up costing more money elsewhere. This has been demonstrated plenty. You can't just envision the budget as this static thing you can cut and save money from one area....often the program cuts end up biting you in the @ss elsewhere when program cuts cause unintended consequences (increase in emergency room visits, increase in crime/prison rates, etc. etc.).

The problem with the state parks is that there is very little risk of unintended costs from cutting them from the budget. It's not like hikers without a state park are going to turn to crime to fuel their addiction....

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 10:54:44 MDT Print View

I will agree with about going after the exploiters. I was also trying to make the point that CA pays above and beyond Federal welfare guidelines. I didn't mean to sound so harsh, but as a taxpayer, I don't think it's fair to support non-taxpayers.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Re: "Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks" on 05/29/2009 10:58:59 MDT Print View


Link to article

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 11:09:37 MDT Print View

Joe,

You are right on. We cannot consume more than we can produce. I am tired of supporting others. This is America. People are poor because they want to be poor. I am tired of supporting them. At one time I was deparately poor... and I did not expect nor seek anyone's help.

I worked several jobs and put myself through college, while supporting a family. I did without, and it took me 20 years to get a college diploma. I worked menial jobs for many years. When I could not afford insurance to have kids, I saved my money and paid cash to the hospital and doctor.

Government's purpose is to provide for the common welfare which is a court system that protects our constitutional rights, police and military to protect the citizens.

The harder I work, the more I pay in taxes. And more people sit back and suck up my taxes. Let them take care of themselves.

We have gotten to the point that we are taxed on our ability to produce, and the slackers are rewarded by their "need." I think there is a name for a system that takes from people based on their ability, and redistributes to those based on their need.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 11:21:33 MDT Print View

"We have gotten to the point that we are taxed on our ability to produce, and the slackers are rewarded by their "need." I think there is a name for a system that takes from people based on their ability, and redistributes to those based on their need."

ARRRGH! DAMN SLACKERS! Sucking the lifeblood of our economy and hard work!!!

By slackers I assume you're referring to the executives of Citibank, BofA, GM, AIG, and the likes?

And I think the name for the system you're searching for would be Crony Capitalism.








Sorry, I couldn't resist, I'm on break.
So where are the forum police? This is screaming CHAFF and nobody has gone nuts yet!!!!

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 11:30:58 MDT Print View

We're running about 80/20 Chaff/Gear so this stuff no longer seems out of place ;o)

Timothy Foutz
(glad777) - MLife

Locale: Virginia
Re: Re: Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 11:46:09 MDT Print View

Good. I don't live Cali and have only been there a few times. But you people have serious problems that you need too fix on your own. You need to outlaw public employee Unions first. That is what is killing your state. Want to know what happens to a public employee who goes on strike ing VA. Fired on the spot. Can never hold another goverment job in the State for life. That would solve your problem by itself. Well that and stopping the payments and services to the illegal leaches. Oh and yes Craig I would love it if ICE would kick down the doors of the people who employee them. I would love to see a 100,000 fine as well as 10 years in prison for violaters who knowingly hire illegals. I would like to see bounties paid on them and the employers taken from asset forfiture of anyone found to be harbouring or employing an illegal. I do believe this would solve the problem nicely. I would love to see everyone of them deported to thier country of origin with a warning that if they are found in the US agian with out proper papers they will spend the rest of thier life in a really nasty work camp in say Alaska. This would stop the percipitous decline in wages that Americans have sufferd thru in the constuction trades and other areas of the economy. Scarce labor and high wages relative to the rest of the world are what made this country such a great place to live in the past.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 12:13:00 MDT Print View

It is easy to find someone upset about all the people who don't pay taxes.

Far fewer people mention that lots of those who don't pay taxes are employed.

Hardly anyone expresses any outrage towards these businesses and business practices that effectively force US tax payers to subsidize the salary of their employees.

Its sad that they are thinking of closing state parks, but I think Nate presented the reasoning fairly well. Gutting social programs just pushes the problem somewhere else, often at greater expense.

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: "Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks" on 05/29/2009 12:13:31 MDT Print View

Gentle readers,

I can see that several of you have opinions of the situation here in California that are untainted by the facts of the matter, but I applaud your eagerness to help fix things for us.

To get you started, here is the 2009-2010 Budget Summary, all 175 pages of it (some summary!).

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/FullBudgetSummary.pdf

I'll note that the top expense category is K-12 education, an area where we lag behind the national median in dollars spent per student and, in fact, spend barely half of what New York and New Jersey do.

I'll also note that in potentially closing our state parks they'll be subject to greatly increased vandalism and poaching and illegal logging, which I'm sure as outdoor lovers we can all agree will be a very bad outcome.

Please let me know what you think we can do about the budget--reality-based please. I have folks I can pass your tips along to.

A proud, concerned California resident,

Rick

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 13:02:46 MDT Print View

>Hardly anyone expresses any outrage towards these businesses and business practices that effectively force US tax payers to subsidize the salary of their employees.

Consider this as outrage expressed.

And there is no non-anecdotal link between spending per student and performance. (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/bg2179.cfm) When I checked a few years ago, most of the bottom 10 states in student spending were in the top 20 in performance. I believe CA has the highest paid teachers in the nation, so I would expect better results, personally. And I never suggested gutting social programs. I only suggested limiting them to legal residents, and at levels comparable to the other 49 states in the Union.

But you're right, I don't live there, so I'll leave you guys to it. Enjoy.

Edited by skinewmexico on 05/29/2009 13:13:19 MDT.

Jim MacDiarmid
(jrmacd) - MLife
Re: "Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks" on 05/29/2009 13:48:29 MDT Print View

When they say they're closing the parks, what do they mean, exactly? There's plenty of ways to hike into Mt. Tam and Mt Diablo without paying. (I have a State Parks membership anyways) Would they put up cyclone fencing to keep people out? Just stop maintaining trails? Arrest you for trespassing if you hiked in?

When they say 'close' what does it mean?

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks on 05/29/2009 14:17:32 MDT Print View

Where does park funding come from? Could they not add some kind of increase to sales tax, a fraction of a percent, to raise more funds?

Maybe they are just using scare tactics to get the citizens riled up to accept higher taxes.

How about cutting police budgets? Have they did that yet?