I'm just getting started backpacking (first overnight in a week) and need some direction to narrow my choices down given my relevant info and desires below. I know most recommend getting all other gear first and then the pack, but it could take some time to get there and what do you do in the meantime? I do have access to an old pack that will get me by on an overnight though I'm not certain it will be very comfortable. This shows a 20" CCF roll next to it. It has a top and bottom compartment (note open horizontal zipper), which means that roll would not fit on the inside, and 4 small side pockets.


Here's the back:

Anyway, I can suffer with it for 1 or 2 night trips, but I'm planning a trip of up to 9 nights in GSMNP in mid-July. I was hoping to carry all my food (I eat pretty light) but if that's not practical I'll do 2 smaller loops rather than 1 big one. I may end that way anyway since some things I'd like to see like Ramsey Cascades are in-out trails. Regardless, I'd need to carry at least 4 days of food.

The heavy items I have so far:
Lunar Duo (41 oz)
Sub Kilo bag (32 oz)
POE X-Lite Thermo pad (26 oz)

I don't have any clothes yet really - struck out finding nylon stuff at Goodwill. I understand Champion C9 stuff at Target isn't too bad. I'll use just a basic vinyl poncho for raingear.

Cook gear will be a Super Cat stove, an aluminum pot, and Fozzils flatware (likely just cup and spoon - eat from pot or freezer bags).

I plan to use a couple liter bottles in side pockets rather than a bladder so it would be nice if those were accessible while wearing the pack. I may get a waist pack to hold those, camera, etc. Frontier Pro + bleach to treat water.

Most of my trips will be short 1-2 nights, but I'll have some up to a week (this potential 10-day one will be very rare). If most of you don't take a week's worth of food at once, I'll learn to resupply. However, on some trips I'll need to carry some extra gear for family members so I'll still need some room to spare on occasion.

Let me also state that I don't have any intention of going SUL or even UL totally - just light as I can while still being comfy and inexpensive. Thus, I'd like any suggestions to be under 3 lbs if possible and under $125 (which almost certainly means used, closeouts, etc.) Are there any backpacks that get close to this?

BTW, I'm 5'9", 160 lbs. My wife claims my torso is ~21". I know my inseam is ~30".

Thank you for any advice and recommendations.

Edited by topshot on 05/22/2009 13:23:44 MDT.

http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/784841

Used GoLite Jam2 or Pinnacle. If you watch the gear swap and be patient, you'll find all kinds of deals.

Gossamer gear, very light and noob friendly. The Mariposa plus can carry 30#'s.

It's heavier than the others, but has a bit more volume for when you carry a lot of food or gear for other family members gear. (This from a dad who carried food for 4 people for 5 days last trip out. Try that in a Golite)

Plus it's a good price for a well known brand. If you find it's too big by next year, you'll sell it easily for $100, which makes it about $3 a day for this years trips.

My #1 pack is the Gregory Z55. The most comfortable pack i've ever owned, and the venting is right up there with Vaude.

You can stay in your price range and get a new ULA pack. I'm partial to the new Ohm, myself. It will easily carry the gear and food you mentioned, weighs only 21oz (under 24oz fully optioned), and is very comfortable. Right now there is a one week production wait due to it's popularity.

If I was to get closer to an UL pack, which of these would be closest to meet my needs in the OP (note: I decided to only consider Dyneema packs)?

Golite Pinnacle (largest)
MLD ARK
SMD Starlite
ULA Ohm (smallest)

My main questions:
1. Which would have the most trouble carrying 30 lbs?
2. Which cannot easily access water bottles in the side pockets while wearing it?
3. Which could not compress to a large daypack or overnight pack when needed?
4. Which would still work if I just folded up my inflatable pad into the appropriate size for the back? I may still use whatever size CCF pad fits that can double as a sitpad.
5. Could I not wear a wide-brimmed hat (bushhat) with any of these if they were fully loaded (too tall)?

I also want hip belt pockets, which I think is an option at least on all, but my camera isn't the smallest (4.13 x 2.60 x 1.93 in /104.8 x 66.0 x 49.1mm; 8.3 oz./235g (not incl 4AA batteries). I figure I can make something if I have to.

I think it's great that you want to do a 9 day trip in GSMNP, but first things first. If you don't have any intention of going UL or SUL, then I don't recommend getting an ultralight backpack as your first or only pack!

Just take a few backpacking trips with that external frame and weigh your gear before each trip. If it weighs less than 25 pounds with food, water, all your gear, and insulating clothing good down to 20 degrees (yes you read that right), then OK, ultralight might work for you. If not, I really think a good 65-75 liter internal frame backpack will be the better choice for a backpacking newb. ULA makes some, but they tend to be kinda small. The ULA Catalyst might be the only one in their line that I'd recommend to someone completely new to backpacking. Otherwise something like a Gregory or an Osprey should be fine. That external frame pack is good for now but chances are that you're going to want some actual hip support that neither a cheap external frame, nor an ultralight pack can provide.

Edited by artsandt on 05/23/2009 11:04:07 MDT.

Art,
Let me clarify that I do intend to go at least as close to UL as I can get. I've not yet come across the definitions of what those weights actually are, but I'd expect to get close to 15 for 1-2 nights or under 20 for an extended trip with available water sources.

Is that unrealistic at 8.2 lbs max for tent, bag, pad and pack?

My first trip is 1 night the 29th with my 11 yo. I'll do my best to stuff that pack I have but I'll be surprised if it can fit 25 pounds of stuff. It is only 2000 in^3 not counting the 4 small outside pockets. I bet I can't even squeeze my current bag in the top compartment (it will be strapped outside somehow). The Sub Kilo is on backorder. I don't have any specialized clothing yet outside of socks, but that will help increase the weight. I'll do my best to stuff it all in! :)

I'm 42 with so-so knees and <3 yo son to also get through Scouts hopefully so I need to be light, but also not spend a great deal to get there.

Nothing is unrealistic. I'm just trying to steer you towards something that might give you better mileage for what I assume your needs to be (of course I shouldn't assume these things, but at this point it just makes straightforward advice a lot simpler). The best all-around backpack for a novice backpacker is an internal frame pack, in my opinion. Though you could of course get a UL pack as your primary pack, I think you may feel constrained by it since as soon as you overload them, they tend to hurt your shoulders, whereas an internal frame pack, once overloaded, doesn't hurt your back directly--rather it just makes your legs do more work.

Before you buy an ultralight backpack, though, I recommend just weighing out your gear to make sure it really is as light and compact as you think. 15 pounds for 1-2 days, including food, water and stove fuel might be a little different from expected when you actually have it on the scale, and I am using "may" herevery loosely. It took me A LOT of practice packing a backpack to get a comfortable gear list weighing only 15 pounds (with consumables) and that included a 1 pound sleeping bag, 1.5 pound backpack, 12 ounce tarp, and an 8 ounce sleeping pad. It's easier than most people think to pack 40 pounds of gear and consumables into a backpack, and far harder to pack less. That's why we have websites like this, after all...

Packing strategies aside, the point I want to stress is that a sturdy internal frame pack going to be comfortable at pretty much all weights whereas ultralight packs are really only comfortable for less than 25 pounds-- less than that even if you don't have shoulders of steel. I never put more than 20 pounds in an ultralight backpack when I have the option of using an internal frame. So if this is to be a backpack for family excursions, carrying other peoples' gear, or a backpack for week-long trips, or a backpack for winter trips, I'd go with the internal frame as your do-it-all pack.

Then again, nothing is unrealistic and if you want to get into UL backpacking from the outset, I wish you well. ULA and Zpacks are my favorite UL backpack makers.

What does your present pack weigh? There are advantages to external frame packs, especially if it's not really heavy.

The old 2000 cu in ext frame pack I have is ~53 oz. It doesn't feel all that comfortable (empty) but I don't have anything to judge against.

Looking at Clelland's "Pretty Good" gearlist, I don't believe I'd ever get below 15 lbs base.

Edited by topshot on 05/24/2009 20:46:12 MDT.

Hi Michael

As a rule, most will tell you to buy the pack last of all. I will strongly endorse this.

> Is that unrealistic at 8.2 lbs max for tent, bag, pad and pack?
UL packs are designed for people whose base weight load might be closer to 5 lb. It sounds to me as though you might have some problems with the lightest of UL packs.

You don't have to go straight to the absolutely lightest gear. It is often better to steadily reduce your load, bit by bit, learning as you go just what you are comfortable with. Serious UL requires a fair bit of experience first. It makes sense to get that experience cautiously.

Cheers

I'm not sure anyone let you in on definitions after you mentioned them:

Ultralight is a base pack weight (not including food/water/fuel or other consumables) of 10 pounds or less.

Superultralight is a base pack weight of 5 pounds or less, and flirts with the fine line between 'camping' and 'survival exercise.'

You seem like you are interested in 'lightweight' backpacking, which I'm still not sure how to define. Under 15 pounds base pack weight? 20 pounds? I'm not sure...

Incidentally, I hate to say this because I LOVE their stuff, but if you aren't planning to go ultralight I'd disagree with and Rick advise that you avoid the Gossamer Gear packs. They are AWESOME packs if you are ready to shed weight and accept the trade-offs, but they are not as durable as you are probably used to. Most are made out of what is essentially tent fabric, rather than ripstop nylon. (The Gorilla is an exception.) Thus, while not delicate per se, you do have to be careful with them if you are doing serious bushwhacking. They also lack a true internal frame, since loads are expected to be light. Most simply have aluminum stays instead, and use a sleeping pad for padding. Due to the lighter fabric they have a slightly shorter theoretical lifespan. On the positive side they are inexpensive so replacing them after a few years doesn't hurt.

At least read about them on the website before you get one, so that you know what you are getting. They are clever packs.

I've never used the Exos, but all the reviews rave about them. Also, the REI Flash series are considered quite good, and a decent $/oz value. Both were recently reviewed here on BPL:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/osprey_exos_review.html

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/rei_flash_50_65_pack_review.html

Edited by acrosome on 05/25/2009 14:00:31 MDT.

My (our) first trip went pretty well. My full pack weight with 2 L of water (my son also had 2 L) and most of our food was ~25 pounds. Since the pack was so small I also carried a large hip pouch I owned that was 53 oz total (almost half that was my small Bible as I couldn't find my really small one) and my 8.4 oz generic FA kit. I did NOT have our Frontier Pro filters (they came Sat), but I knew we didn't need them even though I wanted to try them out. Also didn't have every bit of clothing for down to 20 degrees as Art suggested, since, one, I don't have that yet and, two, I couldn't have fit it anyway. Thankfully, I did happen to see a poncho and stuffed it into a pocket. There wasn't any rain in the forecast yet we had a nice thunderstorm as we hit the campsite (Indiana weather is just as finicky as the mountains I guess ;) ). I put it on my son. I realized later it was actually a kid sized poncho!

It will be nice to have a "small" bag (backordered Sub Kilos just got shipped). Must give some kudos to the Alps Mountaineering compression sack. I had gotten a medium a while back to get free shipping with an order. Even though it says an extra large is needed to stuff a "normal" sleeping bag, I was able (after about 10 minutes) to get my car camping bag in it twice with no ripped seams. Bag and sack were 4.42 pounds of that ~25.

I must say I was surprised the pack was not as uncomfortable as I thought it would be. It effectively has no hip belt (just a nylon belt maybe 1.5" wide) but seemed like it must have ridden there anyway as I couldn't really feel it pulling down on my shoulders but more toward the rear. I still want to get something BIGGER and I'm pretty confident I won't be over 25 lbs.

I need to get something for my son. My old bookbag backpack hurt his shoulders with maybe 12 pounds in it since there is essentially zero padding on the straps. He did 5 miles total with the pack. Maybe a women's Jam2 will be OK for him? I think at 1400 in^3 the Ion would be too small though the price is certainly attractive.

Edited by topshot on 06/02/2009 07:19:31 MDT.

Given the current Golite discounts, I think I'll risk getting a Pinnacle at this point. It seems to be the frameless that can handle heavier loads the best as well as the most flexible since it's the largest volume yet can compress way down in size. I should be about 25 lbs with everything.