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Guns in parks?.... maybe soon!
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Art Sandt
(artsandt) - F
Re: Re: hot topics on 05/21/2009 19:48:14 MDT Print View

Over the years I've posted on probably 70 message boards and I've never seen an internet debate end well.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: hot topics on 05/21/2009 20:17:09 MDT Print View

"Over the years I've posted on probably 70 message boards and I've never seen an internet debate end well."

But what is the debate? In this thread it certainly doesn't appear to be about guns.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
just doesn't. on 05/22/2009 00:43:26 MDT Print View

well art.

you can lead a mule to water but you can't make them drink.

you tried being reasonable. i tried the Theatre of the Absurd. either way, it just didn't take.

sometimes the mule just circles the water, braying loudly.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Dave T on 05/22/2009 02:44:23 MDT Print View

> very well said.
that really is the essence of it.

Oh, the irony!

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: off topic on 05/22/2009 06:25:49 MDT Print View

Yes, off topic but true.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: just doesn't. on 05/22/2009 07:45:17 MDT Print View

Try closing your eyes real tight and repeating:
"Make it go away, I don't like it. Make it go away, I don't like it. Make it go away..."

Or maybe just don't read it?

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: just doesn't. on 05/22/2009 07:54:01 MDT Print View

And I also believe that anyone who reads over this thread will find that the only places it begins to turn "ugly" are the places in which the people begin chiming in that nobody should be talking about guns.

This self-appointed moral majority censorship thing is far more lame than any discussion we could have about carrying guns backpacking.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
yep. on 05/22/2009 09:40:25 MDT Print View

don't read my nonsense. it was supposed to be nonsense. (mostly... though but i do worry about the amount of poaching of the pot-bellied otter going on in Australia).

... but just read Art's post. if you don't agree with it, that's cool. but if it was the "self appointed moral majority" that wanted to keep Whiteblaze from descending into garbage (which is where it went), maybe they were on to something.

you say "let's argue all we want!" and i say let's not. you get offended. we get offended. everyone gets offended. and it all goes downhill.

i wish people on here could talk about guns in the backcountry just like they do about the neo-air. but they don't. i watched the last two giant threads about it just a coupla weeks ago. and i, and lots of others, didn't want to see another one bringing down the vibe like those ones did. so some people tried asking. other people gave an example. i posted lots of absurd nonsense, eventually with the goal of moving it to Chaff where the other two threads went. thank heavens for little victories!

okay, continue...

Edited by DaveT on 05/22/2009 09:43:27 MDT.

Steve O
(HechoEnDetroit) - F

Locale: South Kak
Happy Friday on 05/22/2009 11:16:52 MDT Print View

One drawback to carrying on the trail is that I couldn't enjoy some bourbon without breaking the law. Concealed carry laws have zero tolerance for any level of BAC.

I'm thinking bear-spray and a pint of Woodford Reserve.

I'm sure many NPS folks would love to open up hunting for feral hogs and other invasive species though. In the Congaree National Park in SC they have a huge problem with hogs. There is currently a debate on the legality of hunting them below the high water mark on the Congaree River.

As for the choice of guns for any two-legged problems, here's a few ideas:
1. Kel-Tec P3-AT (8.3oz) OR Ruger LCP (9.4oz).380 auto
2. Smith a Wesson J-frame revolver(10.8oz) .38SPL +P
3. Kel-Tec PF-9 (12.6oz) 9mm
4. Springfield Micro-Compact 1911 (24oz) .45ACP
5. Springfield XD SubCompact (26oz) .40S&W

David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
lightweight on 05/22/2009 13:40:05 MDT Print View

For hunting/bears

Kifaru Rambling Rifle 3.75 lbs

NEF single shot Handi Rifle Compact Superlight 5.3 lbs
Inexpensive too.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Debates on 05/22/2009 16:48:43 MDT Print View

In an ideal world all those (on both sides of the "debate")who want to could just get down on all fours and type away on gun issues in the chaff section. Unfortunately based on my own experience on internet forums Art seems spot on to me about what happens then. BPL is a great place and I would hate to see it change.

For more information on gun issues I suggest going here

The down on all fours comment isn't meant to insult anyone, but is based on something Tim Leary said(go find out for yourself if you are interested and don't think Leary was the devil).

Edited by jephoto on 05/22/2009 16:56:06 MDT.

Steve O
(HechoEnDetroit) - F

Locale: South Kak
Re: lightweight on 05/23/2009 11:16:45 MDT Print View

That Handi-Rifle sounds really nice, thanks for posting that. Accurate, reliable, and CHEAP is a winning combination.

I haven't created the chance to hunt on a backpacking trip, mostly because I haven't considered hunting public land, and haven't had a big and remote private tract to use. Something to consider in the future I suppose. Of course then I may have to purchase a pack-raft to remove the harvest.

Ultralight packraft hunting... hmmmm.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: lightweight on 05/24/2009 14:30:16 MDT Print View

Well speaking of lightweight...I was over at Wikipedia reading up on gun laws in various countries (since no one here is willing to discuss it for reasons I still can't fathom), and see that Pakistan produces a James Bond style pen gun. No details on what it weighs, but it sounds like it would be ideal for backcountry protection from 2-legged animals, though probably not 4-legged ones. Then I googled "pen gun" and found lots of MYOG (that would be Make Your Own Gun) sites. Has anyone ever seen or made one of these?

Denis Hazlewood
(redleader) - MLife

Locale: Luxury-Light Luke on the Llano Azul
Re: Re: Re: lightweight on 05/25/2009 19:29:02 MDT Print View

I've heard that gangs "south of our border" do, all the time. Cheap and easily produced. And, under the radar.

Edited by redleader on 05/25/2009 19:29:37 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: lightweight on 05/25/2009 19:46:39 MDT Print View

Do a little searching on whats going on to our south...

Apparently of the 7000+ drug related murders in Northern Mexico this past year, authorities are estimating that roughly 70% are being committed with guns from the United States (typically purchased by straw buyers and smuggled south).

Not sure you need to make homemade pistols when you can readily get Mini 14s, AR15s, and the like.

David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lightweight on 05/26/2009 13:33:27 MDT Print View



17% according to this story (Fox News, for what it's worth)
Also much Mexican Drug gang armament is heavier than can be
purchased by citizens here, and likely came from military sources.

A friend of mine from Mexico said if they would have had
a 2nd amendment, they would have long ago done away with
the corrupt oligarchy they have for a government there.

David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Beast in the Garden on 05/26/2009 13:47:03 MDT Print View

Just finished a book about cougars in the Colorado
Front Range. Great book and talks about the problems and
dangers of habituated wild animals leading up to the death
of a high school cross country star by cougar attack.

Some of the findings on cougar behavior go against traditional
beliefs. Weapons may be appropriate even in near urban
park settings when things progress this out of hand with

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Beast in the Garden on 05/26/2009 13:49:50 MDT Print View

"Weapons may be appropriate even in near urban
park settings when things progress this out of hand with

Nah, Dave. Just take your cat along when you hike. No cougar(or bear) will get within a mile of you. :)

cary bertoncini
(cbert) - F

Locale: N. California
beast in the garden - good book on 05/26/2009 14:05:46 MDT Print View

pretty much convinced me a gun would be useless in preventing or aiding in the event of mountain lion attack

perhaps a fixed blade knife, conveniently located where it could be reached quickly

or some kind of safety collar - apparently some people have survived attacks because their large backpacks kept the cat from being able to bite their necks: perhaps a weakness for us with small ultralight packs :)

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Beast in the Garden on 05/26/2009 14:07:19 MDT Print View

It's all debatable David!