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Good article on running footwear
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Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Asics Piranha SP on 05/20/2009 17:47:25 MDT Print View

I saw these and just had to have them. Size 5.3 oz on my scale. Size 9 stated at 4.8 oz. Incredibly light you think you are not wearing shoes at all.

Going to test them on a 60 mile hike this weekend.

http://www.asicsamerica.com/products/product.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=240010985&TITLE_CATEGORY_ID=250001617

Matt Lutz
(citystuckhiker) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Asics Piranha SP on 06/07/2009 16:09:43 MDT Print View

Nick - how many miles can I expect to get out of one of those lightweight models? I take it that this is purely a function of the durability of the sole because there is no internal structure/stabilizers/motion control to break down.

Raphi Schuster
(RSchuster) - F

Locale: Washington
Sandals on 06/07/2009 16:31:50 MDT Print View

What about sandals for lightweight? Modified flip-flops dont create stretching in the heel, stay on the feet, and are VERY lightweight. I've found some old-style running sandals used by ancient mexican tribes here: http://barefootted.com/ . His "huarache running sandals" would be fine for lightweight and durable footwear.Running Sandals
These have the Vibram FiveFingers mentioned earlyer this thread also.

Edited by RSchuster on 06/07/2009 16:32:30 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Asics Piranha SP on 06/07/2009 18:06:47 MDT Print View

>> Nick - how many miles can I expect to get out of one of those lightweight models?

I can report these were fantastic and not so fantastic.

They are like walking on air. Did 60+ miles in 3 days. Good thing I rarely wear any shoes, because they have no support. But my arches were fine. I did an 8 mile section on scree/talus and that pretty much did the soles in.

Afterwards I discussed the shoes with my son, who is a distance runner at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. The team wears Asics shoes, and he said they have had poor luck with the Pirannah's lasting long. He recommended I switch to the Asics Gel-Hyper Speed 3. The state weight is 6.5 oz, which is probably a size 9. I have a pair on order.

Matt Lutz
(citystuckhiker) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Asics Piranha SP on 06/07/2009 18:13:46 MDT Print View

Gotcha - I currently run in Asics GT-2140s and did some preliminary research on flats today. I'm looking at the Brooks T6 and the shoe your son recommended. Do you know how well a single size translates between the trainers and the flats? I'd like to be able to order a pair of flats from Asics based on my 2140 shoe size, but I'm hesitant to buy a shoe before trying it on.

FYI - I just sent an e-mail to Asics North America asking the same question.

Edited by citystuckhiker on 06/07/2009 18:22:44 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Sandals on 06/07/2009 18:13:55 MDT Print View

Most sandals weigh more than trail runners. I find that my feet slide around in flip-flops if my feet get wet. I don't know what model of five-fingers are being worn with the hurache sandles, but would bet the total weight is close to trail runners. One problem I have with the five-fingers is that I can only wear them on well maintained trails, otherwise I ocassionally hit the side my little toes on rocks or other debris, which is painful. Overall the best lightest hiking shoe I have found are racing flats. However, they are not going to last as long as trail runners.

Raphi Schuster
(RSchuster) - F

Locale: Washington
Re: Sandals on 06/08/2009 01:04:22 MDT Print View

The FiveFingers that he is wearing are the classic. they and the sandals probably weigh about the same as trail runners. These sandals are made of a Vibram material that ranges from 4-12 mm and has the option of a leather footbed for more support, structure, and grip. Wearing FiveFingers with the sandals is optional.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Asics Piranha SP on 06/08/2009 10:35:55 MDT Print View

Matt,

This is a tough one!! I have a pair of the old model Asics Hyper Xcs flats. The material is mesh with polyester lining inside of them, so not a breathable as a mesh only shoe. The size 12s fit me perfectly. The Pirannah's in a size 12 are looser... almost too loose. I had to snug up the laces on the Priannahs, which was uncomfortable on my heels after 10 miles. The discomfort was from pressure, not because my heel was rubbing. I think this is because the mesh gives more than the other shoe's construction. If I were to purchase another pair of Pirannah's I would go to a 11.5 size. Also, if your feet are pretty tough, you can just wear sock liners alone.

If you can return the shoes, you might want to purchase two pairs and return the ones that are not right.

Edit: Matt forgot to really answer your question on trainers versus flats. I would go down 1/2 size, because most people wear a thicker sock with trainers. Best bet is to try them on. Check and see if there is a specailized running store near year. I find it much easier to find running stores, than hiking gear stores. Plus the running stores usually have some pretty knowledgable people working there, because they are runners.

Edited by ngatel on 06/08/2009 10:46:04 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Sandals on 06/08/2009 10:42:48 MDT Print View

Raphi,

Some ultra marathoners just use the five-fingers alone. The ancient mexican runners used Hurraches, because they were limited to that materials were available to make a shoe. When I was in high school (over 40 years ago), Hurraches were popular, so I have worn them and are familiar with them. I have run/hiked in many kinds of sandals and just don't like them. Racing flats hug your feet, have minimal soles, and are the lightest option available, even lighter than the Vibram KSO, which Vibram recommends for Trekking or long distance running. I find them much more comfortable and protective for hiking. Just my personal experience.

Raphi Schuster
(RSchuster) - F

Locale: Washington
Re: Re: Re: Sandals on 06/08/2009 16:55:06 MDT Print View

I do like how flats provide more protection than sandals, as they cover the toe and top of the foot. I guess I need to try out my sandals more before I try to debate with you and your experiences about this.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sandals on 06/08/2009 20:40:56 MDT Print View

Raphi,

No need to debate :)

We all have our likes and dislikes. So we share what works for us, and that often does not work for others. The other consideration is that I never have foot problems and I have been hiking and running for over 50 years. Others are not so lucky. I will tell you that if you hike long distances in flats or five-fingers you better have well condition feet or you will be miserable and sore. They definitely are not for everyone.

I do not have a conventional job and work out of my home office most of the time, so I am wearing minimal footwear all the time. If I hade to wear conventional shoes to work everyday, then I could not hike in flats unless I was running 50 or more miles a week.

I have hiked and run in sandals and just don't like them for those activities. Just a personal preference. But I have several pairs of flip flops and sandals and do wear them a lot. Here in Palm Springs, my dress shoes are a pair of Keen sandals (unless my wife catches me before we get to the restaraunt)!!

Adrian B
(adrianb) - MLife

Locale: Auckland, New Zealand
Saucony Shay XC Flat on 07/06/2009 00:06:27 MDT Print View

I bought a pair of Saucony Shay XC Flat for running in.. wow very light. Half the weight of my Terrocs. Wish I could use them for hiking, but the uppers look like they'd rip up pretty quickly.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Saucony Shay XC Flat on 07/08/2009 00:31:02 MDT Print View

Adrian,

I wouldn't worry about the uppers, they will outlast the soles!! I have pretty muched switched to the racing flats for almost all my hiking all of this year. Just make sure you get used to running/hiking in them before undertaking a long hike, as they provide little support.