I think the divide between hi and low tech is artificial at least in the sense of electronics vs older technologies. Innovation has always been with us right back to when that first bunch of sissies started wearing animal skins and, gasp, took all the sport out of hunting by sharpening their rocks. Someday the traditionalists will be opining that GPS is all anybody needs, no need for that direction sensing implant.

Edited by herman666 on 11/23/2009 11:37:40 MST.

Although I certainly don't have a problem with people saying they don't want technology on the trail, I can say for my purposes, I very much enjoyed using an iPhone for an arctic trip this year. I had zoomable topo maps that helped me decide on the fly where I wanted to go, voice memos to journal what would have otherwise taken too long to write down, documents on identifying edible arctic plants, regular gps features, and once put inside a aloksak it was waterproof and could be used through the bag.
I never once played a game, listened to music, or anything that wasn't directly related to what I was doing out there in the first place.
I suppose if I were to hike in areas I already knew, I probably wouldn't care to have it with me, but when exploring the unknown, I've been very glad to have it with me.

I would never own an iPhone for the simple reason that the only apps you can put on the phone are the ones that Steve Jobs approves. The bottom line is that Apple decides what software you are allowed to install on YOUR device. I don't know how much more arrogant a company can get than this. I have the privilege of spending $200-$300 on a device and then the manufacture gets to dictate to me how I use it? I think not! Google seems to have figured out how insane this attitude is and has produced a phone that does not have this restriction. And then there is Microsoft who has always allowed the user to install any software on their devices. For me Apple's attitude is simply unacceptable.

What a ridiculous complaint.

Two words: Quality Control.

I've never heard *anyone* complain about lack of apps for the iPhone. There are many many options, and the system as a whole is better, and the apps are better.

And it's not as if Steve Jobs is forbidding people to develop apps. Quite the contrary, almost anyone can develop an app for the iPhone, and there are new apps from al sorts of companies every single day!

I'd prefer a little control over a completely open model where things break down (Windows, Windows!) and you have to have several different programs to monitor your other programs because all the programs are not coordinated to talk to one another.

I dare you to find one iPhone user who feels like their choice in apps is limited by Apple. Now, ATT, that's a whole different story.

P.S. I cannot wait until satellite internet is available on the trail. Will take some of the boredom of downtime out of it and allow me to be connected to the world while out in the wilderness. I don't buy into the duality of wilderness/civilization and find that blending the two works just fine for *me* Personally, I'd like access to the news, weather, and friends while on the trail.

cough* droid cough* cough*

First this is not an Apple vs. Microsoft thing. It is an Apple vs. everyone else thing.

Secondly it isn't ridiculous. Does some uber cabal control what I install onto my home computer? Do I want such a thing? NO WAY. The point is simple: I own the device and I don’t need some unseen force issuing quality control. Once I write the check I own it and will control it, thank you very much. The point isn’t how may iPhone apps there are, but the simple fact that the consumer and the free market doesn’t get to decide. There have been many cases already where Apple has either revoked an app or not allowed an app. This is simply unacceptable.

Finally, all apps MUST be digitally signed by Apple. Without the signature and the placement into the iPhone app store it will NOT make its way onto your device. All new apps must make it through the Apple gauntlet. If you look at the Google phone or the Microsoft smart phones you’ll find that absolutely any app is allowed and there is no central committee approving apps.

The freedom to install any application is a small sacrifice to have a smartphone that doesn't suck. Sorry, sorry--getting all fanboy on you.

But back to the discussion at hand: StarMap is GREAT for night sky viewing and I use iTopo for topography/GPS. The great thing about iTopo is its a one time fee of 10 dollars and you can download all the USGS quads you want. (Though limited by your memory cache).

Those are just a few of the options that the Uber Cabal has graciously allowed us iPhone zombies to consume. ;)

Also, a good investment if you use a lot of juice is a Morphie battery pack. Gives you a full charge, and if you are relying on your smartphone GPS, then it's a great emergency backup.

I don't even care what this discussion is about, the title of Nate's response gets an automatic five stars from me.

Somebody set up us the bomb.

For great justice,
Adam

awesome nate.

Wesley,
I can't stand Apple, but the iPhone is a great device. I don't use iTunes, refuse to buy music from Apple, and my phone is jailbroken so I can have all kinds of "unapproved" apps on my phone.
Nate, I would be one of countless iPhone owners that feels my choice of apps are limited by Apple. I'd be thrilled if the android based phones took over. In short, I'm a dedicated Apple hater that loves the iPhone.

In an attempt to keep on topic, I'll state that I'd have no trouble switching to another phone, but iTopoMaps and GPS Kit would have to be on whatever phone I have.

Try using Star Walk. I have Starmap Pro also, but one thing that makes Star Walk incredible is its ability to follow the sky dome as you point the iPhone in any direction, including at your feet to view the stars on the other side of the planet. And while you scan the sky with the iPhone Star Walk will highlight and then name and diagram the constellation you are looking at.

Edited by butuki on 12/18/2009 23:58:15 MST.

Thanks for the recommendations for apps.

I love my iPhone, and the access to (mostly) useless apps in a million flavors is awesome (no sarcasm - I really like some of least useful apps). I'm an early enough adopter that I still have one of the first apps written sitting on my phone which was pre-AppStore.

I am not a fan of phones, smart or otherwise, on the trail.

From the perspective of aesthetics, non-emergency phone use doesn't sit well with me.

I sometimes carry one anyway on the theory that it might conceivably have some utility in an emergency situation, but, if I am honest with myself, it's really because I don't want to leave it in my car. I consider it to have low odds of actually being helpful in an emergency, because of its battery life and its non-ruggedness.

The iPhone to me seems particularly ill-conceived for the wilderness, primarily because of its battery life, which I'd have to characterize as 'pathetic'. I certainly do not wish to get into a gear cascade (phone, charger, backup charger, spare battery, etc.) to support it.

Having said that, if I am lucky enough to be out skiing or climbing out of someone's remote and electrified cabin, I'd love to use it to stargaze from the lawn. Thanks for the recommendations.

Thomas,
The iPhone does have rotten battery life, but since I turn mine off between uses, it's not as bad as you might think. I was over 100 miles from the closest cell signal, so the phone portion was useless. The other features I was able to use for many days without needing to charge the phone.

I do however have a Solio charger with me. I take a DSLR camera, so having a charger that could charge the phone and the DSLR battery worked out better than trying to have enough extra batteries to give me power for what I wanted.

I've found the iPhone to be surprisingly rugged. It's obviously not as rugged as a dedicated outdoor GPS, but it has survived some nasty drops for me.

I'm not suggesting that a smartphone is for everyone, and clearly some printed paper topo maps and a pen to write on the back of them could serve in place of what I used a smartphone for. But it would not have been as quick and convenient or useful as the smartphone was.

I think it's better to look at these devices for all they do that isn't a phone. Leave the sim chip in the car or turn off the phone capability. For wilderness purposes, they should not be treated as a phone, but rather a potential replacement for a GPS, topo maps, compass, pen, etc.

If it's a philosophical thing where you won't be able to relax on the trail if you have any electronic gear, then a smartphone of any kind is probably the worst thing to consider. My viewpoint is that smartphones, or more accurately pocket computers, may be more applicable to wilderness applications than most people realize and deserve a fair evaluation.

Yeah, I do the same.

When I have carried the phone with me, I have typically planned my usage in advance while it is off. I then turn it on, use whatever I need or wish to use (one example lately has been txts and photos) and then immediately turn it off and stow it again.

Even so I am underwhelmed by its battery life.

Don't get me wrong - I am an iPhone fan, and in fact I am a fan to such a degree that most people I speak to about it probably add the extra syllables (to make fan-atic).

I just haven't found it that useful on trails, or that reliably connected beyond day hikes in relatively non-wild environments.

First of all, thanks for the post Jesse/tacedeous!

Second, I'd never heard of this Garmin XT before. Sounds like it uses the MiniSD slot. I wonder how it compares to some of the excellent GPS apps out there in the last eight months since you posted. Would love to here more!

Third, My primary reason for contemplating carrying a smart phone:

== CONVERGING DEVICES INTO ONE ==

I've been contemplating getting an Android phone for a couple months now. I've skipped the iPhone because it's a locked down POS... primarily this is because ATT coverage is abhorent in my kneck of the woods, but also Apple's nanny-like approval process for all apps.

The reasons I'm planning on doing this are simple.

Mostly it turns four separate devices into one.

1) replaces my camera for video and photo (I carry this everywhere)

2) obviously it's a phone (I carry it everywhere purely for safety's sake, but it remains off)

3) no need to carry a GPS (up till now I've simply refused to carry one)

4) iPod (I've stopped carrying one in the last year because I felt it to high maintenance, though I do miss it on occasion. It's good for raising spirits on those rare occasions when you get in a funk)

So, at it's most basic a smart phone replaces two key devices with one. If you count those I have neglected to carry because I despise the clutter then four.


== HOW I PLAN TO USE IT ON THE TRAIL ==

First of all, I should explain. I don't just hike. Mostly I bike tour. I'm planning on combining the two this summer to section hike some trails. Maybe / hopefully even some parts of the AT or possibly a larger section of the North County Trail.

Basically that works like this: I have the base weight for ultralight road bike touring setup below 30lbs. This includes gear AND bike. (picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4245474921/ ) With a harness this should allow me to hike with it on my back simply by removing the wheels. Thus this should give me unlimited freedom to explore hiking trails without having to drive or circle back to a parked car. (More Freedom!)

Admitedly this approach is a paradigm shifter. It's impossible to know how well it'll work and just what the advantages are until I've tried it extensively. However, if you choose to you could think of this approach as a great way to scout sections of trail for a future thru-hike. Isn't that what all section hiking is. ;)

So, without any further adieu my somewhat prioritized reasons for carrying a smart phone.

1) web, web, web... There are an infinite number of reasons why I might end up accessing the web but the best example is the simple ability to google the nearest grocery store or gas station (or bike shop) should I have an issue or a need to resupply.

This is integral to my approach.

I don't care for food drops when bike touring, don't need them, and when bike/hiking I shouldn't need to carry more then a few days food when potentially at any road crossing I have quick access to resupply. Hence I can go lighter then most backpackers to compensate for the 19lbs of bike weight. Thus the equation shifts from not how much do I have to carry but simply a matter of how long would I like to avoid civilization.

2) taking photos and video (and posting them straight to the web)

3) GPS tracking, mapping, route following. This as opposed to google maps... I distinguish between the two because I can use GPS maps when offline.

4) blogging / micro-blogging (twittering) / journals... I find it's best to say it with video or photos rather then do to much typing.

5) music... plus audiobooks and podcasts

6) phone... mostly it's simply for emergencies

So, that should be it

- Mike
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ultralightbiking/
http://mmeiser.com/blog

Jesse Helmick (tacedeous):

"and another function i forgot is the stylus is magnetized on one end for some reason, so if i float that on a leaf, I have a compass too..."

Isn't there a built in/ software compas as well? :)

So what you're saying is even if the battery dies it still has a functional compas? I can dig that. Especially since I always read about people who get lost or otherwise in emergency situations because they've relied on a GPS. At the very least I carry a tiny little ball compass.

Also, you forgot to list paper weight... and I bet it skips really well across a pond too. :)


Jesse Helmick (tacedeous):

"The more I carry, the more I love to camp, The less I carry the more I love to hike"

That's pretty brilliant. I'm alsays trying to explain the ultralight thing to people and I'll add this to key ways to explain it.

Some other favorites are:

"It's like going out for a sunday stroll and not having to come back for days or weeks at a time."

and

"It's not about going faster. It's about having the energy to take that side trip up that next mountain."

So... this post was started with a Smart phone running Microsoft's cell phone OS.

However that was almost a year ago. The market has changed a heck of a lot since then. The open source cell phone operating system cool started called Android has gone from being a relative newbie to some 22% market share. It seems to be picking up tremendous steam and has started to get really polished as well.

Best off all you can get Android phones through just about every major carrier which means we can all potentially get one, which means that this isn't irrelevant to anyone not on ATT (i.e. stupid iPhone).

I've been trying to do some research to find out what is available for Android phones and was wondering what others had used and found.

This might be worthy of it's own thread, but I don't want to thread spam so I'll wait until I have a bit more to share.

== GPS backpacking use scenarios ==

1) Tracking

Google's "my tracks" application is a default application that seems absolutely perfect for recording your route as well as time, speed, distance, and elevation.

http://mytracks.appspot.com/

What's more you can use it to easily import that data into a google spreadsheat, share your routes and/or data via google and from there export it to all sorts of route sharing, mapping tools and serices via standards like KML and GPX.


2) Turn-by-turn:

i.e. might be great in an adventure race type scenario

I've yet to find any apps or documentation on turn by turn apps that

a) upload a route to your phone via GPX or KML (though I'm sure it's quite common)

b) precache all the necissary maps along the trail (because obviously you're not likely to have cellular access on the trail)


3) Spot checking

I figure most of the time (and maybe most people) would just like to have their maps on their smartphone so they can doulble check it if they need to.

4) Compass:

Most Android phones do have a built in compas... though obviously it'd be only a matter of convienience, because quite frankly you should always carry a real compass.

5) elevation?

Most Android phones can now get elevation data, though I'm not sure if it's through altimiters or merely pulling that data from google. (If it's the later it wouldn't be to useful because you'd have to be on network)

6) Thermometer?

Not sure how many Android phones have built in thermometers yet.


So! What other specialized GPS related features might one need?

Chad Miller (chadnsc) said:

"Camera – 4.1 oz."

You're just made me miss my JamCam!

My first digital camera I picked it up on a lark for $9 to take on a canoeing trip. Only shot 800x600 photos which had a certain "quality" to them, but was nearly indestructable. I miss the beautiful simplicity of it.

Perhaps I should go buy a tiny P.O.S. camera and ditch my really expensive, complex, high maintence (battery sucking) and heavy (1.5lbs) ditial one.

All this is to say that... I do have reservations about carrying a smart phone on the trail. But they are not technical ones like weight. They are purely aesthetic ones.

I just don't like technological distractions on the trail.

Mostly I solve this inherent contradiction by leaving my current phone off and in the absolute bottom of my pack with other "emergency only" gear.

However I if I get a smart phone with camera and intend to use that camera regularly it will be harder to "escape" the temptations and distractions of modern society which the phone is so obviously a symbol of.

Even if I can turn off the cellular features it's still a complex piece of technology that has to be constantly navigated (to use the camera features), and maintained (batteries).

This is why I stopped carrying an iPod after all. I got sick of carrying around the ear buds and an external battery pack that took four AA.

It wasn't even so much the weight... it was just "clutter".


Indeed I must admit I'm currently even sick of buying and carrying extra batteries for my camera.

I'm sick of wondering how many spare batteries I'll need to carry.

I'm sick of worrying about charging batteries.

I'm sick of finding large grocery stores to avoid paying ridiculous amounts of money for batteries at grocery stores.

So, In fact... I think I will, as an experiment, go buy a keychain camera and try shooting only with that.

Funny that, I came here doing research on using smart phones (and I will get one) but have come away thinking about going less high tech.

P.S. The truth is resolution and fidelity are way over rated anyway. When it comes to memories pictures are mere symbols and triggers of memories about where we've been and what we've done. The best of it all lies in our own minds and the stories written and told. In that sense the fidelity argument is a bunch of bunk.

@Nate Meinzer (Rezniem):

First of all thanks for posting, I've learned a great deal about the state of GPS apps for smart phones from this thread.

iTopo sounds like a great app.

Just being able to download whole areas of USGS topo maps is superemely useful.

However, though you can put in waypoints I don't see any way to download (i.e. GPX file to phone) or plot a compete trail on it.

I guess this is ok if the trail is actually already on the map, but quite frankly 99% of the trails I follow are not.

Are there any GPS apps out there for the iPhone that do this?

@Miguel D Arboleda (butuki)

great list. I can count a few of these I might use including the knot guide, tracks, and potentially trees.

Speaking of trees are there any great apps for identifying edible trees / plants / bugs / mushrooms? That I might find useful.

Edited by mmeiser on 01/18/2010 20:03:46 MST.