Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded
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Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 13:48:03 MDT Print View

I've been playing around with all the recommended products used for bonding cuben fiber and decided that it was time to bond my first cuben product... a stuffsack! Nothing fancy, but it is easy to make and does not require sewing...that's good for guys like me who are scared of those machines. :)

The goal is to create a simple stuffsack to replace my backbreaking Nano stuffsacks that I purchased here ;o. Finished size is ~ 10" x 7". Material is 0.33/oz cuben fiber. I cut the material using a razor and carpenters square on a piece of cardboard. Bonded with Hysol U-09 FL. IMO, this adhesive is superior to the 3M tape as you can apply it with a paint brush and is a bit more forgiving...the tape is really a one shot deal.

Details below:

The Pattern
Stuffsack Pattern

The Final Product
Stuffsack main

Corner Detail
Stuffsack Corner Detail

Cord Detail
Stuffsack Corner Detail

Stuffed
Stuffsack Stuffed

Water-PROOF...except for the big hole at the top. ;)
Stuffsack waterproof

And only 0.1 oz (2.8 grams)
Stuffsack Scale

Edited by Steve_Evans on 04/06/2009 14:27:43 MDT.

Matt Lutz
(citystuckhiker) - F

Locale: Midwest
Sack on 04/06/2009 13:50:17 MDT Print View

Awesome. Almost makes me want to buy some cuben and make some. Maybe a packliner?

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 13:55:41 MDT Print View

Steve,

PM me your snailmail addr and I'll send you some AirCore 1 line and a tiny cordlock so you can ditch that porky drawcord string (he-he).

(serious offer)

Kevin Egelhoff
(kegelhoff) - F

Locale: Southern Cal
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:06:09 MDT Print View

Steven,
Very nice !!! I had always wondered how easy it was to use the Hysol glue. Did you use the Hysol from a gun using a dual mixing applicator ?? What is the set-up time ??

When I use the 3-M tape I usually cut it in half with a sharp razer blade to save weight on all non main bearing seams. Looks like the glue is a better way to go !!!!
Might have to really look at this option for the two man cuben tent.
Thanks
Kevin

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:12:36 MDT Print View

Jim, thanks for the offer. I used the same line that came with my MLD Cuben Poncho...because I had some. I won't bother you to send it, but where do you get the tiny cord locks from? I looked for a bit but they all seemed so heavy...the ones on the nano sacks are super tiny. I couldn't find them anywhere.

Looking back at the pictures, the line I used looks like climbing rope. :)

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:12:43 MDT Print View

Where do you get the adhesive? I found only one place on the net:

http://www.amazon.com/Loctite-U-09FL-Urethane-Adhesive-Flexible/dp/B000WXL1UI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1239048687&sr=1-1

I searched for Loctite Hysol U-09FL

Matt Lutz
(citystuckhiker) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:15:19 MDT Print View

<--also interested in stupidly tiny cordlocks.

Edit: purchased 20x stupidly tiny cordlocks.

Edited by citystuckhiker on 04/06/2009 20:36:41 MDT.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:19:29 MDT Print View

zpacks.com sells tiny cordlocks.

peter kvamme
(karacolor) - F

Locale: midwest
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:22:20 MDT Print View

I think these are "tiny" cordlocks, but maybe there is a source for something even smaller? I dont know how much smaller is feasible to still function...

"mini" cordlocks from OWF Inc.
http://owfinc.com/Hardware/phardware.asp#Cordlocks

"mini mini" cordlocks from Quest (measures 5/8" x 3/8" wide. Each weighs .015 oz. each)
http://questoutfitters.com/plastic.htm#Acetal%20Fasteners

I think they are both comparable in size, but could be mistaken.

Great looking bag, almost has me inspired to buy some cuben too!

Edited by karacolor on 04/06/2009 14:26:19 MDT.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:25:18 MDT Print View

Hey Kevin,
I have the applicator gun but just squirted a small amount on scrap cardboard, mixed it, and applied it with a paintbrush. The gun really pushes alot out and fast, and I think it would be impossible to do any precision work with it. Maybe if you were bonding huge sheets together or something. If you were just doing something small, I'd pass on the gun and just push the stuff out with your thumbs and make sure each cartridge is relatively equal. Of course, if you are building another one of those shelters...it could get time consuming.
It states working time to be 10 minutes but you can pull apart the pieces for probably 30 minutes which makes it easy to adjust seams and stuff. It starts to become difficult to apply with a paintbrush (becomes gummy) after the 10 minute mark. I mix small batches at a time cuz this stuff gets pretty pricey. I have limited experience, but it probably takes full 24 hours to dry and then another 24 to dry clear (the stuff on my bag is still a bit milky after a day or so).

I actually used the 3M tape on a couple of other test samples and found the peel and shear strength to be less then the Hysol but still acceptable. Also, the tape is so tough to line up and apply all at once, especially on very long sections (ie. like a bivy). This cuben is really thin so sometimes if you breath or move you arm fast it will move the fabric and mess things up. The Hysol allows for re-application and adjustment.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:31:56 MDT Print View

Roleigh,
My apologies...I have edited my post to show the correct adhesive which is Hysol U-09FL. I purchased it from my local supplier Fastenal. They require a $150 minimum on the stuff but we have an account so sometimes they can piggyback it on another order. It is an industrial product but I'm sure you can buy it somewhere down in the States and probably without the minimum order.

Maybe try RS Hughes?

Steve

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 14:43:56 MDT Print View

RS Hughes and Mcmaster Carr carry it.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6430a32/=1bzvd8

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 15:00:00 MDT Print View

Steven, thanks. I see the amazon link actually has the supplier as R. S. Hughes Co., Inc.., the amazon unit is about twice as heavy as the other, which probably accounts for the price difference.

Chris Chastain
(Thangfish) - F

Locale: S. Central NC, USA
Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 15:05:54 MDT Print View

Awesome.
Great job, and right up my alley.
Opens a whole new field of possibilities for me.

I bought a used school sewing machine 10 years
ago and can't make it work right. Tried to learn
on cotton scrap, but no way. Can't find anyone around to
either teach me, or repair my machine if it needs it.
I have no idea if it is me or the machine.
One local guy said he would teach me whatever I wanted
IF I purchased a new machine from him. I've been considering it.

Thanks for posting this!

Kevin Egelhoff
(kegelhoff) - F

Locale: Southern Cal
Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 19:03:12 MDT Print View

Steven,
Thanks for all the info. I'm going to do some research and see if I can come up with a little quicker drying Hysol. Need something more along the lines of 5 minutes.

Using the inexpensive duel component plastic mixer on the front of the gun/tubes works great in getting the perfect and clean mix and then applying small beads of the glue in the exact area that you need it for just a little extra money. Plus, no extra waste. Here is a small picture. You can get these at McMaster-Carr or RS Huges as well. Will definitely use this on the next shelter !!!

Mixing glue gun tip

Edited by kegelhoff on 04/06/2009 19:06:04 MDT.

Matthew Roberts
(matthewjamesroberts) - F

Locale: San Fernando Valley
Zpacks on 04/06/2009 20:01:19 MDT Print View

I have purchased both size cord locks from ZPacks. The smaller of the two sizes is on just about everything I own with a cord.


Highly recommended.

...
cordlock
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml

Edited by matthewjamesroberts on 04/06/2009 20:01:49 MDT.

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa) - M
Re: Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 20:20:20 MDT Print View

Steven, nice work. Interesting info on loctite.

Kevin, are you planning on using loctite on load bearing seams? I am not sure if a single line from the above mixer can give a strong seam.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 20:37:15 MDT Print View

Kevin,
Thanks for the picture. That is definitely different then the one I have. The one that came with the gun extrudes a wide ribbon of glue. I didn't realize there were different ones. I will look into that ASAP.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cuben Stuffsack - Bonded on 04/06/2009 21:14:25 MDT Print View

Mathew, thanks for the link but believe it or not, 0.02 oz is too heavy to put on this bag :o...that's over 1/2 a gram, which is 25% of the weight of my cuben stuffsack sans cord.

What is the lightest cord out there right now? Is it the BPL aircore 1? Pretty expensive. Z-packs has some light stuff but I thought maybe someone knows of something ridiculous light...

Huzefa, if the joint is designed correctly (forces on bond are in shear) I think Kevin will be good. My test samples using 0.33 cuben with 1/2" seams have proved fine after trying my hardest to pry them apart. Even my all cuben corner stake loops cannot be pulled from the body of my tarp...using only 0.33 cuben and the Hysol adhesive.

Dave Weston
(WSUWESTON) - F

Locale: NW
Fishing Line on 04/06/2009 21:38:29 MDT Print View

Fishing Line is pretty lite. Braided line tends to cut things, but mono seems to do pretty well on my bags.