no Bronner's
Display Avatars Sort By:
Brett Peugh
(brettpeugh) - F

Locale: Midwest
no Bronner's on 04/02/2009 07:40:11 MDT Print View

I have tried to use Dr. Bronner's over the years but I always stop because for being a soap it really never lathers up well for washing your skin or hair. Secondly, anything but the unscented can be smelled about 50 yards away and even that has something going on where you can smell it at your periphery. Lately I have been using my Kiss My Face shampoo as it tends to lather up really well and the smell is not overpowering. Granted I can't use it as toothpaste but then again I bring along some Tom's. Is there anything else on the market that I should be looking at?

Jeremy Greene
(tippymcstagger) - F

Locale: North Texas
Re: no Bronner's on 04/02/2009 07:57:57 MDT Print View

Baking soda replaces all these with no scent. Toothpaste tastes gross when I get home.

William Puckett
(Beep) - F

Locale: Land of 11, 842 lakes
Re: no Bronner's on 04/02/2009 10:48:45 MDT Print View

FWIW, the amount of lathering for soaps is pretty much a feature that is designed/specified by the manufacturer. Lathering is not needed for a soap/detergent to work, though low lather soaps are generally not "natural". There has been lots of market research that shows that lathering and effectiveness are pretty well linked in the minds of most consumers, though I'm informed by chemists that lathering isn't needed for soap to do its "thing".

Brett Peugh
(brettpeugh) - F

Locale: Midwest
usage on 04/02/2009 11:38:44 MDT Print View

For me it is much more about usage. I have to use a lot more of the Bronner's versus the Kiss My Face to cover the same area or for my hair.

Dustin F
(dirtt) - F

Locale: So. California
KissMyFace and Dioxane on 04/02/2009 12:25:32 MDT Print View

This may not matter to you, but KissMyFace soaps and shampoos were found to contain Dioxane. Dr. Bronners contains none.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/bodycare/DioxaneResults08.cfm

Taken from wikipedia

Safety and environmental concerns

Dioxanes combine with atmospheric oxygen on standing to form explosive peroxides, similar to many other ethers. Distillation of dioxanes concentrates these peroxides increasing the danger. Appropriate precautions should be taken.

1,4-Dioxane is a known eye and respiratory tract irritant. It is suspected of causing damage to the central nervous system, liver and kidneys.[3] Accidental worker exposure to 1,4-dioxane has resulted in several deaths.[4] Dioxane is classified by the IARC as a Group 2B carcinogen: possibly carcinogenic to humans because it is a known carcinogen in animals.[5]

The State of California, under proposition 65, listed 1,4-dioxane as a chemical known to cause cancer on January 1, 1988.[6]

Like many solvents, 1,4-dioxane forms contamination plumes in groundwater when released to the environment. Groundwater supplies have been adversely impacted in several areas.

1,4-Dioxane is highly soluble in groundwater, does not readily bind to soils, and readily leaches to groundwater. It is also resistant to naturally occurring biodegradation processes. Due to these properties, a 1,4-dioxane plume is often much larger (and further downgradient) than the associated solvent plume.[7]

In 2008, testing sponsored by an independent consumers organization found 1,4-dioxane in almost half of tested personal-care products.[8]

----------------------------------------------------------

PS
I am a smoker and here I am worried about trace amounts of dioxane. :)

Brett Peugh
(brettpeugh) - F

Locale: Midwest
alternative on 04/02/2009 12:47:43 MDT Print View

Well if the Kiss My face is not doing that good anymore is there anything else out there than Bronner's?

Brett Peugh
(brettpeugh) - F

Locale: Midwest
against Bronner's on 04/02/2009 12:56:49 MDT Print View

Here is something that I just stumbled across from another site.

I find these studies really frustrating. It bothers me that once a product labels itself as green, it automatically goes under the microscope, and any flaw found is seen as a massive, news making black mark. The reality is, even with these downsides the products are still better than most mainstream products out there. When products are tested without comparison - ie. they talk about Green Shampoo X having carcinogens, but they don't talk about Mainstream Shampoo Y having twice as many carcinogens - it is misleading and quite unfair to the product, because the product is usually overall better for you and for the environment. That gets lost in the hype.

The truth is, nothing is 100% environmentally friendly. Nothing comes without a cost. Yes, manufacturers need to strive to do better and better and consumers need to be aware of what we're buying. But to focus on a single flaw on a product that is at least trying to be better for the environment makes me gnash my teeth in frustration, because it is so short sighted and hurts the environmental momentum overall. Even your products, that you claim to be certified organic, use Caustic Soda or Potassium hydroxide (that are not really very natural and safe ingredients) during the soap making process. Caustic soda or Sodium Hydroxide is linked to cancer, neurotoxidy, causes skin and eye irritation in very low quantities and there are so many cases of occupational hazards for the workers who are exposed to such dangerous ingredient. The important thing is Dr. Bronner is going to the market with his pointing finger trying to show so-called bad ingredients but he is hiding to consumers that he is using a very bad one (Dr {edited} is misleading consumers because he doesn't display all ingredients that he use to make his soaps. He lists ingredients like saponified organic oil. But he doesn't state how he saponify them. Dr Bronner uses an alkalyne product like CAUSTIC SODA that causes cancer). The normal ph of skin is 6-7 and his product ph is 10.... this is not exactly mild to skin

Joshua Goldenberg
4/13/08

Paul Gibson
(pgibson) - F

Locale: SW Idaho
Broners Alternative on 04/02/2009 12:57:13 MDT Print View

http://www.sierradawn.com/products.asp

Try this link, I really don't like broners if I can avoid it, it once made a friend break out in hives on a trip. and it is way to strong of a sent for me as well. Camp suds are also meant to be a concentrate so only a couple drops go a very long way. Good luck

Dan Cunningham
(mn-backpacker)

Locale: Land of 12,000 Loons
Re: Broners Alternative on 04/02/2009 14:16:04 MDT Print View

I've used Campsuds and Bronners - I think I personally prefer the Campsuds. It seems to take less of it to accomplish the same task.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Broners Alternative on 04/02/2009 14:30:41 MDT Print View

Campsuds is a option. How about a small unscented hotel bar of soap? Or cut up a bar of Ivory soap. I find Bronners works for me.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Biodegradable on 04/02/2009 17:27:39 MDT Print View

I try to avoid regular soap and shampoo out in the backcountry. The regular stuff lasts an awfully long time and can get in the water. If I reasonably can, I'll use something biodegradable.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Biodegradable on 04/02/2009 18:02:15 MDT Print View

Jim,

That was a given on my part. That is why I mentioned Ivory, which I have read (but not verified) is biodegradible.

Monty Montana
(TarasBulba) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Broners Alternative on 04/02/2009 22:27:26 MDT Print View

Jim, you make some good points! I've never used Bronner's, or any other soap for that matter, in the back country. Just don't like the idea of that stuff getting into the streams and lakes, biodegradable or not. Instead, I use Wet-nap moist towelettes or Purell sanitizing hand wipes, which I pack out with me, so no errant pollution. I've never felt the need to wash my hair (or shave) in the backcountry, so I don't know what I'd use, maybe a glycerine soap, because it does really lather up.

Dustin F
(dirtt) - F

Locale: So. California
Brett on 04/02/2009 22:48:25 MDT Print View

What happens to sodium hydroxide when it enters the environment?
Sodium hydroxide released to the atmosphere breaks down readily by reacting with other chemicals.
Sodium hydroxide separates in water to sodium cations (positively charged sodium atoms) and hydroxide anions (negatively charged oxygen and hydrogen atoms), which ultimately decrease the acidity of the water.
If released to soil, sodium hydroxide will separate into sodium cations and hydroxide anions when it comes into contact with moisture.
Sodium hydroxide does not accumulate in the food chain.

______________________

Sodium Hydroxide is lye or caustic soda.

I know that burning wood and collecting the ash, then filtering water through it creates a lye solution or caustic soda solution. Seems pretty close to natural to me. And as far as I know, lye is only known to have caused cancer where people have been severely burned by it. Whereas dioxane just does. Sounds like th person who posted that has a vested interest in some of these pseudo safe and natural products or he has just not done his own homework. Or maybe Im wrong, who knows.

I know that burning wood and collecting the ash, then filtering water through it creates a lye solution or caustic soda solution. Seems pretty close to natural to me. And as far as I know, lye is only known to have caused cancer where people have been severely burned by it. Whereas dioxane just does.