"but it saves getting your expensive rainjacket shredded on a thorny bush."

My hikes aren't quite "Man v. Nature" extreme -- and within that context, I do select gear that will do the job without fuss. I wouldn't buy an expensive rain jacket that will get shredded on a thorny bush.

I think the subjective part is how much we want to "fine tune" our comfort while hiking. As mentioned, a good wind jacket is going to be more breathable than a good rain jacket. Nothing wrong with carrying two separate jackets. But to me, the window of need is narrow -- and even within that narrow window -- the rain jacket 'discomfort' can be mitigated to a great extent by venting or walking a bit slower, etc. YMMV of course.

"I like to get up close and personal with the rock."

OK, Mike, you win. I am not going there. :)

there's certainly some functional overlap but I wouldn't say they're redundant. Waterproof garments are not as breathable as windproof ones, there's a big difference here. Windproof stuff is both lighter and more rugged. The functional gap is big enough for me to find different uses for both and not consider them redundant.

In cool/windy conditions, a windshirt goes on inmediatly and it's comfortable. With a rain jacket, I keep pushing back the time to wear it and I don't feel as comfortable, neither before nor after I put it on.

I always carry both and it seems everytime I leave either one at home, I miss it eventually (except for maybe very short hikes in predictable conditions).

I carry both, and use the windshirt as my second shirt.
I do like to have a backup shirt and something to wear other than my rainjacket when I am washing and drying my primary hiking shirt.

If someone can point me to a viable, dual use second shirt that weighs less than my 3 oz windshirt, I'm all ears.

And I do sometimes prefer it for light wind and rain protection over my DriDucks.

> I carry both, and use the windshirt as my second shirt

I do the same. It's actually not only about windshirt vs. rain jacket but about a whole integrated system. I find I build a better system when I take both things.

> I do the same. It's actually not only about windshirt vs. rain jacket but about a whole integrated system. I find I build a better system when I take both things.

Exactly my idea.

And I do sometimes prefer it for light wind and rain protection over my DriDucks.

So do I, actually. Which is why on day trips, the Driducks stay home while the silky Marmot Ion gets to go out and play. But the difference is just not pronounced enough for me to pack both on a trip and fuss with first pulling one out and then repacking it and pulling out the other...

As OP no doubt has discerned by now -- the difference is certainly there but whether or not it is "worth bothering" -- he will likely have to try it out both ways and then see for himself.

One other thing I love about carrying a windshirt AND a rainjacket is that I have a dry wind layer to change into at the end of a windy, rainy cold day. When you're hanging out, even in a tarptent, on a windy evening things can be very drafty, plus the windshirt is often enough for those midnight nature calls rather than putting on a soaking wet rainjacket.

"the difference is just not pronounced enough for me to pack both on a trip and fuss with first pulling one out and then repacking it and pulling out the other..."

I almost never do this. Either the weather is cold and windy most of the day, so the windshirt goes on and stays on (unless things warm up), or it's a wet day and the rainjacket goes on and stays on (or goes off if it stops raining). It is very rare for me to be pulling both garments in and out of my pack throughout a single day. As such, I, like Ben, would never carry both garments on a day trip. In fact, Like Ben, if the weather looks bad enough for a rainjacket on a day trip, I would tend to just stay home, so essentially I only ever take the windshirt on day trips.

I carry both a wind and rain jacket as part of a system. It's rarely scorching hot wear I hike, and often breezy, and I want long sleeves because then I don't need sunscreen on my arms. So I wear a short sleeve T under a wind jacket. I could wear a long sleeve zip neck and no wind jacket for ~8 oz, and have the extra warmth but minimal protection against the wind chill when I get sweaty, or I can wear the short sleeve and wind jacket, 5.5oz + 3.75oz for 9.25 total, and for the extra weight I get wind protection. My rain jacket just isn't breathable enough to wear unless it's actually raining.

Interesting thread! A few more comments about the windshirt.

-I find a windshirt useful when I anticipate snow but I need very little insulation- for example, snowshoeing in deep snow when enery level is high, and I could probably do fine with a merino LS shirt by itself, but need to stay comfortable in the likely event that a pine bough decides to dump its snow load on my head.

-In high activity, cold temperatures, no snow or precipitation, where one is going to sweat a bit even in a LS merino shirt, I've had moisture as either condensation or frost gathering in places on a merino LS shirt when that is my only layer. In these conditions, would a windshirt simply provide an additional barrier to this moisture, or might it help me deal more effectively with it by creating a buffer area of warm air?

-For nights in camp, would a windshirt be worth its weight, as an alternative to a less beathable shell, over a puffy synthetic/down insulation layer, particularly in situations where the dewpoint might be inside the insulation? The windshirt might move the dewpoint closer to the exterior of the insulation layer, or even put the condensation point on the inside of the windshirt itself- and deal with the resulting condensation better than a gore-tex or eVent shell.

James