Hi Rand,
Looks almost identical to the SILICONE 5000!
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/15535/index.html?skip_to_post=115989#115989
Well done on lightening it up.

>Thanks for the tip. I will try that on my next trip. Do you package each breakfast in individual bags, or pack it a large one, then re-use a smaller one for each meal?<

Nick,

My usual trip is one or two days so I package them individually, but I see no reason not to use a larger bag with a smaller reusable for longer trips. I'll have to try it myself.

-Mark

>As soon as the pot/can is supported significantly above the rim than the cone can be smaller, more compact and lighter. All good things.<

Nia,

I think the reason that TrailDesigns has not done this before is that the efficiency of the cone drops a fair amount when the water level in the pot is above where the top of the cone hits. And Rand notes that the Keg-H is not as efficient at the Keg-F. So yes, you will get a "smaller, more compact and lighter cone", but that will be offset by having to take more fuel. It is all a trade off.

-Mark

Thanks Mark. I'm sure there is some efficiency trade off. But I'd like to see some hard numbers on it to see what really matters and where the crossover point is.

And adding the caddy into the equation I think would take up a good portion of any extra efficiency. Looks like you've dropped that piece from your pack though.

Doing a quick google, I can't come up with any good test numbers. Does anyone have a link?

For me I've switched to a homemade stove that's lighter than the cone, packs smaller, and uses wood so efficiency is largely irrelevant.

Nia,

I've been horsing around with cones now for a couple of years including making my own that fit in the keg. I did this by wrapping fiberglass wick around the can so that roughly 3/4 of a cup of water was above the cone top when I put in 2 cups of water. My boil times were consistently in the 10 min range for 60 F water. Occasionally I could get it to boil with 16-17 ml of ethanol- isopropanol 50:50 mix, but usually it took a little more- maybe 20 ml ( sorry I don't have my notes with me ). My present Keg-F by Traildesigns, where the cone comes to the top of the water, boils 60 F water in 6:30 min. with 15 ml ethanol.

I realize one can't really figure out the efficiency based on my fuzzy memory, but it gives you some idea of the difference.

Sounds like your wood stove is an improvement for you. I got tired of soot and everything smelling of smoke so I've gone this route for a while.

-Mark

Thanks for the info Mark. My wood stove works well for me accept where it is banned. Plus I'm always looking for a better mousetrap.

I'm surprised at the slow boil times in particular. Maybe this is a bigger issue based on the narrow base, so most of the surface area is up the side of the can? Would the same differences show up on a wide short pot like the AGG-3 cup?

If it was only 1-2 ml difference than it's largely negligible. At 5ml or 33% more it's a pretty significant difference.

Nia,

Yeah, the narrow base of the beer can I think is the main problem. I haven't made a cone for my larger based pot (1.3 L Evernew Ti), but I do have a a Caldera Cone for it (first one I bought a long time ago). The larger based pot boils 2 cups 60 F water in about 4:30 min. vs the Caldera Keg at 6:30 min.

-Mark

All:

Been getting some inquiries about the new Caldera Keg versions that I promised after the PCT Kick Off. I just posted them to the Trail Designs website at:

http://traildesigns.com/products01.html

As discussed, the "Caldera Keg" is now the "Caldera Keg-F" and now includes a monster band for use with an un-formed fosters to replace the mid-can lip we machine in should you damage yours.

The Caldera Keg-H is based on a Heineken can, and the cone is sized to fit down inside the pot/can. This definitely makes it more packable.....though slightly less efficient.

Finally, the one I didn't discuss fully is the exclusive for Gossamer Gear called the Caldera Keg-GVP. Glen Van Peski has been running an "esbit only" version of the Caldera Keg-F for a while now, and Gossamer Gear asked us to productize it for them. Being esbit only, we could make the cone shorter (and lighter) so it fits completely in the can. Still getting the "buy it now" links sorted out, but we built product and are poised to ship once all the web sites start talking to each other!

Rand :-)

(here's a shot of the GVP)

Edited by randlindsly on 04/30/2009 00:39:51 MDT.

I've decided to go for the Keg-H.
If i want more of the can inside the cone, i'll simply dig a little hole for the stove to sit in. :)