Hi all I have been snooping around here for a bit and by far you all seam to be some of the most experienced and helpful folks on any of the forums that I frequent. I wanted to go a head and say hello and ask for a bit of a gear list review from you. I am 29, in decent shape, love packing, former heavy packer, converted to light packing some years ago and still trying to drop OZ's as possible. I am not supper focused on absolute minimum weight possible (you will see a few extras here and there in my list) but I do want to continue to improve as much as possible for my own comfort. This year specifically I am planning to hike 2 separate 100 mile sections of the Idaho Centennial Trail one in late april or early may that is a flat desert section that I hope to only spent 4-6 days on. The other is up through more rugged terrain in the Sawtooths so it should take a bit longer, that will most likely not be until early September due to scheduling with a buddy. In either case temps should be daily highs to 70ish and night lows to the 30's. I tend to sleep cool even with good base layers and sleeping hat and socks, so my bag is a bit warmer. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Paul

PACK OSPREY ATMOS 50 49 OZ
TENT BLACK DIAMOND FIRSTLIGHT 53.2 OZ
SLEEPING BAG Marmot Sawtooth reg 48.0 OZ
SLEEPING PAD THERMAREST PROLITE 3S 13.2 OZ
SLEPPING BAG SACK SEA TO SUMMIT SIL DRY SACK 1.3 OZ(plan to add Shoulder strap to use as day pack)

Extra Clothing(carried)

RAIN SHIRT GOLITE WISP JACKET 2.6(not totally waterproof) see umbrella
RAIN PANTS GOLITE REED PANTS 4.3
PANTS MOUNTAIN HARD WEAR ZIP-OFF PANTS 16.0 (plan to buy)
GLOVES MOUNTAIN HEARDWEAR POWER STRETCH 1.3
BASE LAYER SMARTWOOL MID WEIGHT ZIP T 8.1
EXTRA SOCKS Smartwool ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.6
SLEEPING HAT Smartwool Training Cap ? (plan to buy)
UMBRELLA GOLITE DOME UMBRELA 9.5(used Wisp/Umbrella system on a few trips and like but just got Sierra Designs Hurricane LT rain jacket at 12 OZ could go with either jacket and leave umbrella.

Cooking – Water

STOVE JET BOIL 13.8
BOWL ORIKASO FOLD FLAT BOWL 1.2
UTENSIL JET BOIL UTENSILS (FORK & SPOON) 0.8
WATER BOTTLE Platypus 1 ltr bottle 0.8
WATER FILTER KATIDINE HIKER PRO 13.7
WATER STORAGE PLATYPUS WATER TANKER 6 LT 3.0
Hot water/cook bottle Nalgene 16oz wide mouth bottle 3.2


Miscellaneous Items

HEADLAMP PETZL TATCTICA 2.8
TOOLS LEATHERMAN SQUIRT P4 2.0
TOWEL MSR ULTRALIGHT PACKTOWL SM 0.8
FIRST AID AMK ULTRALIGHT .7 KIT REDUCED 5.3
KNIFE SPYDERCO MICRO 0.6
NAVIGATION GRAMIN VISTA GPS W BATTERIES 5.9
BATTERIES SPARE AA BATERIES 1.8
SKIN CARE SUNSCREEN, CHAP STICK 1.0
BUG SPRAY BUG SPRAY 1.0
TOILETRIES TP, SHOVEL, HAND SANITIZER, TOOTH BRUSH, ETC. 4.0
HIKING POLES LEKI MAKALU PLUS 21.9
iPOD IPOD TOUCH W SONY HEADPHONES 4.5

Clothing Worn - Items Carried

SHIRT GOLITE MICRO T 3.7
SHORTS SWIM TRUNKS 4.9
SOCKS SMARTWOOL ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.5
SHOES MERRELL MESA VENT 30.0 (might change to hiking in my vibram five fingers full time saveing 30oz in shoes and 1.5 oz in socks -keep one packed pair for sleeping in)
HAT BASE BALL CAP 3.1

My spread sheet says it all adds up to a full skin out weight of 21.3 pounds befor any food and water which will vary by trip length and conditions. Thanks all

Edited by pgibson on 03/23/2009 14:56:20 MDT.

I'm not an expert by any means. At least not compared to most people around here.

STOVE JET BOIL 13.8
BOWL ORIKASO FOLD FLAT BOWL 1.2
UTENSIL JET BOIL UTENSILS (FORK & SPOON) 0.8
WATER BOTTLE Platypus 1 ltr bottle 0.8
WATER FILTER KATIDINE HIKER PRO 13.7
WATER STORAGE PLATYPUS WATER TANKER 6 LT 3.0
Hot water/cook bottle Nalgene 16oz wide mouth bottle 3.2

Do you really use the fork? I have never needed a fork or a spork while backpacking. Only a spoon. I even use a spoon to spread peanut butter, which means I don't even need a knife (at least not as an eating utensil.)

Do you need 6 liters of capacity for water? Could you replace that with something smaller and less heavy? Perhaps recycle a bottle or carry a few more small platypuses?

Do you need a bowl? I usually eat right out of the pot. Then I only have one item to clean afterward. When I really need a bowl, I've started recycling plastic bowls from food I buy. My latest find is a Greek yogurt bowl. It's really thin yet maintains flexibility. I cut off the lip around the edge so that it'll fit inside my pot. Now my savory dinners won't pollute my sweet breakfasts.

Do you need the Nalgene? I suppose it's nice to have a hot water bottle when you go to sleep, but maybe it's something you could leave at home sometimes to save some weight.

Extra Clothing(carried)

RAIN SHIRT GOLITE WISP JACKET 2.6(not totally waterproof) see umbrella
RAIN PANTS GOLITE REED PANTS 4.3
PANTS MOUNTAIN HARD WEAR ZIP-OFF PANTS 16.0 (plan to buy)
GLOVES MOUNTAIN HEARDWEAR POWER STRETCH 1.3
BASE LAYER SMARTWOOL MID WEIGHT ZIP T 8.1
EXTRA SOCKS Smartwool ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.6
SLEEPING HAT Smartwool Training Cap ? (plan to buy)
UMBRELLA GOLITE DOME UMBRELA 9.5(used Wisp/Umbrella system on a few trips and like but just got Sierra Designs Hurricane LT rain jacket at 12 OZ could go with either jacket and leave umbrella.

Do you need to carry extra pants? I hiked 1500 miles of the PCT without extra pants. In all that time I never missed extra pants.

Same question for the extra crew socks. I realize socks are personal. I met a guy who carried 14 pairs of socks and he needed them all. I only carry extra warm socks for sleeping and wear two pairs of other socks. Then I can play mix-and-match whenever something is bothering my feet.

Do you need to carry a base layer that isn't being worn? You have a lot of layers already. Seems unless it's really cold you would not need the extra layer.


I, too, am trying to decide between an umbrella + water resistant shell vs a poncho + leave the umbrella home. The issue for me, though, is that I like the sun protection of the umbrella. The umbrella is lighter than your jacket and provides two uses, if that provides any more to confound your decision.

I appreciate your comments, its great to have other prospectives on gear. Let me elaborate a bit on a few points. Some of my gear/system I have played with and I might be able to justify some of it for you and I am sure that there are still other things that I need/could cut. Fork and spoon wise I also have some lexan sporks that I have used but I like to do a lot of spaggeti/angel hair pasta and a fork is just a bit easier and the flip side forks suck for getting all the oatmeal out of any thing.

I like to pump all of my water for the night when we get to our camp site, I also have a 4 litter Platty that is only a few tenths of an ounce lighter. I usually only carry 1/2 -1 litter of water at a time and just keep my pump handy on the trail. But at camp I hate stopping to go pump more water in the middle of a meal, so I pump enough to do all the nights cooking, cleanup, and some for in the morning. Anything that is left after we are packed up and ready to head out for the day is either drank on the spot or dumped.

Yes a bowl is a 1oz necessity for me I hate cleaning deep down cooked on grunge out of my jetboil. I have cooked in it and it sucks for cleanup. at this point it is mostly just a boil water to rehydrate with stove to me. The bowl gets food and water dumped in for the last bit of cooking and clean up is much easier on the Orikaso bowls than the jetboil pot.

The nalgene serves multiple purposes and over the years I really like to have one along. During the day I rehydrate my pasta, rice, beans, etc. in the nalgene to help save on fuel when we get to camp and start dinner. at night I make some hot chocolate to through in my sleeping bag for added heat on cold nights and a drink in the wee hours or first thing in the morning. Not the perfect vessel weight wise but I have not found anything as leek proof for my use yet.

Clothing wise I am a bit confused. I am only taking one pair of pants + swim trunks + rain pants. I would usually only take the trunks and rain pants but the rain pants do not breath at all and after just a little wile the get unbearably clammy. Also I am only taking one pair of socks to hike in and one pair to sleep in. As well the base layer is my only insulation in my kit. I am only taking 1 ss t-shirt, 1 long sleeve base layer, and 1 wind/rain layer. I suppose how I have my list laid out it is a bit confusing and jumps from one category to the next, I copied and pasted from the gear list I got here form the old spreadsheet contest.

Again thanks for the input, please keep it coming.

Just checking on what you say about the rain pants... do they not breathe at all even when stopped and not hiking? A whole extra pound of pants seems like a lot to carry in your pack, when hiking tends to generate enough heat in the legs to keep you reasonably warm (depends on the person, I guess). Maybe rather than hiking in the swim trunks, you could just hike in the pants and not carry them in the pack.

If the shorts are warm enough to hike in, though, and the rain pants are only clammy when hiking, I'd suggest using the rain pants as your outer layer for when stopped (and therefore generating less heat).

My pants system is generally running shorts for hiking, with rain pants over them for when stopped.

Not sure how big your Osprey pack is but couldn't you fit all that in a GoLite Ion?

Johann,

The Atmos 50 is 50L so i highly doubt it considering the Ion is 25L.

I would look at the Exos series if you're in love with the Atmos suspension bags.

also I would recommend maybe a Gorilla by Gossamer Gear which is ~46L including pockets. It'll save you over a pound and a half. Or maybe look at ULA's similar bag.

I had an Atmos when i was first trying to "see the light" but alas, i sold it in two months and was using a Golite Jam. Never looked back.

It's hard b/c the cottage industries aren't in stores to try on, but i would look at reviews for packs. JMHO.

I'm at work so i didn't really check out much of the other stuff, just the pack caught my eye from Johann's comment.

- Dana

PS - Welcome to BPL.com!!!

Edited by Naman919 on 03/24/2009 09:46:21 MDT.

"Not sure how big your Osprey pack is but couldn't you fit all that in a GoLite Ion?"

Not if his life depended on it.


Do you want recommendations to replace gear?

Hello, and welcome.

You carry a leatherman squirt AND a spyderco knife? Seems redundant. You also carry a shovel? I hope that you mean a trowel. I hike in sandals so I don't have a boot heel, but can always find something to dig a cathole with (I find that Armadillos work best). Do you actually use these items enough to justify the weight?

Paul, good to see you are here looking for advice, here is mine without any intended malice, I know new things cost money, but you don’t have to get everything at once, I’m always working on my list-- see comments below next to each item:
PACK OSPREY ATMOS 50 49 OZ--- Other packs with the same volume are far lighter
TENT BLACK DIAMOND FIRSTLIGHT 53.2 OZ--- Try a tarp or tarp tent, under l lb.
SLEEPING BAG Marmot Sawtooth reg 48.0 OZ--- You can get a 15* down bag under 2 lbs, or even lighter go with a 30* bag and add some insulating layers to your clothing- I don’t see anything in the clothing insulation.
SLEEPING PAD THERMAREST PROLITE 3S 13.2 OZ--- no change
SLEPPING BAG SACK SEA TO SUMMIT SIL DRY SACK 1.3 OZ(plan to add Shoulder strap to use as day pack)--- Use a trash compactor bag and nix the daypack idea

Extra Clothing(carried)

RAIN SHIRT GOLITE WISP JACKET 2.6(not totally waterproof) see umbrella--- keep
RAIN PANTS GOLITE REED PANTS 4.3--- For camp only?
PANTS MOUNTAIN HARD WEAR ZIP-OFF PANTS 16.0 (plan to buy)--- There are lighter ones on the market. You can wear these as rain pants also. Get ride of the swim suit and use the shorts for swimming- get a quick dry pair and they will work great.
GLOVES MOUNTAIN HEARDWEAR POWER STRETCH 1.3--- Keep
BASE LAYER SMARTWOOL MID WEIGHT ZIP T 8.1--- A little heavy?
EXTRA SOCKS Smartwool ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.6--- Keep
SLEEPING HAT Smartwool Training Cap ? (plan to buy)--- Keep
UMBRELLA GOLITE DOME UMBRELA 9.5(used Wisp/Umbrella system on a few trips and like but just got Sierra Designs Hurricane LT rain jacket at 12 OZ could go with either jacket and leave umbrella.--- DriDucks are lighter and far cheaper

Cooking – Water

STOVE JET BOIL 13.8--- For just boiling water this is way too heavy!!! Make yourself an alcohol pop can stove for nothing or look into a caldera cone or something like that...
BOWL ORIKASO FOLD FLAT BOWL 1.2--- Just eat out of a freezer bag
UTENSIL JET BOIL UTENSILS (FORK & SPOON) 0.8--- ??? one or the other
WATER BOTTLE Platypus 1 ltr bottle 0.8--- keep
WATER FILTER KATIDINE HIKER PRO 13.7--- Try AquaMira or the like- or a lighter system
WATER STORAGE PLATYPUS WATER TANKER 6 LT 3.0--- Do you really plan/need to carrying 13 pounds of water? Even in the Idaho desert there should be water sources?

Hot water/cook bottle Nalgene 16oz wide mouth bottle 3.2--- If it works with your cooking system, keep it but get rid of the Jet Boil (sell it on ebay or this forum)


Miscellaneous Items

HEADLAMP PETZL TATCTICA 2.8--- There are light options
TOOLS LEATHERMAN SQUIRT P4 2.0--- Overkill and unnecessary
TOWEL MSR ULTRALIGHT PACKTOWL SM 0.8--- Use a Bandana
FIRST AID AMK ULTRALIGHT .7 KIT REDUCED 5.3--- Keep
KNIFE SPYDERCO MICRO 0.6--- Keep
NAVIGATION GRAMIN VISTA GPS W BATTERIES 5.9--- Learn to use a map and compass, some places in the Sawtooths you will not get accurate reception and will need a compass anyway, you are already bringing an I-pod for entertainment, leave the GPS home!
BATTERIES SPARE AA BATERIES 1.8--- No need, see above
SKIN CARE SUNSCREEN, CHAP STICK 1.0--- Keep
BUG SPRAY BUG SPRAY 1.0--- Keep
TOILETRIES TP, SHOVEL, HAND SANITIZER, TOOTH BRUSH, ETC. 4.0--- Maybe use a tent stake instead of a trowel, repackage the sanitizer, toothpaste, TP (maybe leave this out), shorten the tooth brush, etc.
HIKING POLES LEKI MAKALU PLUS 21.9--- Try and find lighter ones
iPOD IPOD TOUCH W SONY HEADPHONES 4.5--- Why- isn’t nature enough?

Clothing Worn - Items Carried

SHIRT GOLITE MICRO T 3.7--- Keep
SHORTS SWIM TRUNKS 4.9--- Leave home- see pants above
SOCKS SMARTWOOL ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.5--- Keep
SHOES MERRELL MESA VENT 30.0 (might change to hiking in my vibram five fingers full time saveing 30oz in shoes and 1.5 oz in socks -keep one packed pair for sleeping in)--- When these wear out look for a lighter pair
HAT BASE BALL CAP 3.1--- Try and find a nylon BB cap- I found one that weighs 1.0 oz

Take all I’ve said and look through the forums about how to lighten your load, then make your own list- but always keep an open mind

Edited by bestbuilder on 03/24/2009 12:59:06 MDT.

Paul,

It's the BIG items that really add up, the notorious BIG THREE.

If you get a lighter pack, sleep system and shelter, your pack weight will plummet dramatically. All the other stuff is fun, but it won't make much difference in the big picture.

And with less stuff (and lighter stuff) a small light backpack will be fine.


_____________________

PACK OSPREY ATMOS 50 49 OZ - Wow, This is heavy, GoLite JAM2 should be your target pack. Or a GoLite Pinnacle

TENT BLACK DIAMOND FIRSTLIGHT 53.2 OZ - switch to a tarp, the sawtooths in september? And the idaho desert? Minimal bugs.

SLEEPING BAG Marmot Sawtooth reg 48.0 OZ - a three pound sleeping bag is heavy by the standards on this forum. But, you said you seep cold, and if you take a heavy sleeping bag, you can leave behind some other items.

SLEEPING PAD THERMAREST PROLITE 3S 13.2 OZ - - - KEEP.

SLEEPING BAG SACK SEA TO SUMMIT SIL DRY SACK 1.3 OZ(plan to add Shoulder strap to use as day pack) - - - No need for a day pack.

Extra Clothing(carried)

RAIN SHIRT GOLITE WISP JACKET 2.6 - - - KEEP.
RAIN PANTS GOLITE REED PANTS 4.3 - - - KEEP.

PANTS MOUNTAIN HARD WEAR ZIP-OFF PANTS 16.0 (plan to buy) - - - Wow,a full pound is a lot.

GLOVES MOUNTAIN HEARDWEAR POWER STRETCH 1.3- - - KEEP.
BASE LAYER SMARTWOOL MID WEIGHT ZIP T 8.1- - - KEEP.
EXTRA SOCKS Smartwool ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.6 - - - KEEP.
SLEEPING HAT Smartwool Training Cap ? (plan to buy) - - - KEEP.

UMBRELLA GOLITE DOME UMBRELLA 9.5(used Wisp/Umbrella system on a few trips and like but just got Sierra Designs Hurricane LT rain jacket at 12 OZ could go with either jacket and leave umbrella. - - - - THe sawtooths in Sept. are pretty mild for rain. A 6.6 oz DRI-DUCKs jacket (20 bucks) is pretty nice for an envenomed with minimal rain. And so is the desert.

STOVE JET BOIL 13.8

BOWL ORIKASO FOLD FLAT BOWL 1.2 - - - - A tiny mug (plastic or titanium) is more versitile. But 1.2 oz is pretty nice.

UTENSIL JET BOIL UTENSILS (FORK & SPOON) 0.8

WATER BOTTLE Platypus 1 ltr bottle 0.8 (you have three water vessels listed)

WATER FILTER KATIDINE HIKER PRO 13.7 - - - - - No need for a heavy filter, Aqua Mira (repackaged) or iodine will be much lighter ad fully safe.

WATER STORAGE PLATYPUS WATER TANKER 6 LT 3.0 - - - - - 6 liters? that's way overkill, especially with a partner.

Hot water/cook bottle Nalgene 16oz wide mouth bottle 3.2 - - - - THe Baby Nalge is actually pretty nice, I use one in the winter - BUT - if you don't' have it, you'll b fine. You have three water vessels for one person. Try going with JUST a 2 liter platy.

HEADLAMP PETZL TATCTICA 2.8 - - - - Lot's of lighter options, but this is fine. Get a lighter backpack before you worry about this.

TOOLS LEATHERMAN SQUIRT P4 2.0 - - - - - no need.

TOWEL MSR ULTRALIGHT PACKTOWL SM 0.8 - - - - No need, use a trimmed down bandana.

FIRST AID AMK ULTRALIGHT .7 KIT REDUCED 5.3 - - - KEEP.

KNIFE SPYDERCO MICRO 0.6- - - KEEP.

NAVIGATION GRAMIN VISTA GPS W BATTERIES 5.9 - - - the trail system in the sawtooths is awesome, a map and compass will be fine. (I don't see map and compass listed anywhere?)

BATTERIES SPARE AA BATTERIES 1.8 - - - - - no need.

SKIN CARE SUNSCREEN, CHAP STICK 1.0 - - - KEEP.

BUG SPRAY BUG SPRAY 1. - - - - - The bugs are minimal (or non existent) in the sawtooths in aug - sept - NIX it.

TOILETRIES TP, SHOVEL, HAND SANITIZER, TOOTH BRUSH, ETC. 4.0 - - - Nix the TP and the trowel, use a tent stake or a stick. Repackage all the little stuff in the smallest bottles you think will work.

HIKING POLES LEKI MAKALU PLUS 21.9 - - - - Not on your back, who cares.

iPOD IPOD TOUCH W SONY HEADPHONES 4.5 - - - be careful in bear country (lions) with an iPod. I do NOT advocate this for safety reasons.

Clothing Worn - Items Carried - - - - Not on your back, who cares.

SHIRT GOLITE MICRO T 3.7

SHORTS SWIM TRUNKS 4.9 - Swim trunks AND zip off pants? Go with just swim trunks and a super light nylon pant (like 9 oz or so) use your REED pant's if it rains.

SOCKS SMARTWOOL ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.5

SHOES MERRELL MESA VENT 30.0 (might change to hiking in my vibram five fingers full time saveing 30oz in shoes and 1.5 oz in socks -keep one packed pair for sleeping in) Be careful with the five toe shoes, do some LONG practice trips before commiting.

HAT BASE BALL CAP 3.1

( I think I might have repeated much of Tad's advice )

Edited by mikeclelland on 03/24/2009 19:25:29 MDT.

Lots of advice to sort through :) Thank to all of you for some good info and another prospective. I have already gone ahead and cut out several items from my list. A little more info about me and my plans to put some things in prospective.

1. I used to work in a gear store and had the opportunity to try out many of the packs on the market. I am a huge Golite fan but after wearing amy of the different models loaded up with 15, 20, 25 pounds for a full day each they just did not fit me as well as I would have liked. When the Atmos came on the market I also tried it and the fit was much more comfortable. I understand all of the principles outlined by "The grandfather" Ray Jardine, that if your pack ways supper minimal fit is not as critical but I would rather be comfortable than sore. :)

2. Tent wise I have tarped it a number of times as well I have gone with no shelter at all and enjoyed the night sky. But when I take my wife ;) the only option is the tent. As well I have been caught a number of times by the afternoon storm - downpour and I love my BD tent I can have it pitched in under a minute and every time it have done a tarp I just have never been that fast. As for the bug thing, I have been to a lake one week and there is hardly a bug to be seen and the next week same lake been so swarmed that we bailed early. Just never know.

3. Sleeping bag wise the the Sawtooth was more of a budget thing than anything else. I have been planing well really drooling over another bag that I want to replace the sawtooth bag with. It is 30 degree and 26 oz. so a pretty sizable cut.

4. Sea to summit stuff bag-day pack. Yes of corse most through trips the daypack is not needed as I would be moving camp daily. But I do have some in and out trips that I am planing to do some peak-bagging on. These would include a full day 2-3 thousand feet of vertical change from my base camp. I think having some way to carry a snack and some water would be a good idea. but defiantly not necessary on the trough trips. I was thinking of only adding one shoulder strap to the dry bag would be fairly minimal impact weight wise but more than enough for my off trail hikes.

5. Water wise - No I have no desire to any distance with even one litter of water when not necessary. I have never filled and hiked with my 4 or 6 litter platty. I only use this bottle at camp for a clean readily available water supply. Evening cooking, cleaning, drinks, morning cooking, and water to chug in the morning and top off the water bottle for myself and any hiking partner. On the trail I like to top of my 1 ltr bottle, drink as much as possible and then top off the 1 ltr. bottle again. Again the small nalgene is used for food rehydrating, hot drinks, as a mug, and sleeping bag warmer.

6. Gps- This I know will be a debate point for most folks here and I know many will never get it. I am an avid geocacher. Also I do know how to use a map and compass. I have navigated many times by map and compass and all in all I prefer the GPS, I guess its the tec geek thats in me. I also like to geocache as a pass time wile in the backcountry. No necessity about it its just something that I enjoy.

Any way Thanks to all of you for the advice. Like I said I really appreciate and respect the advice that you all have given. Mike C like you have probably been told may times before--I am a big fan of your work and I read and re-read your and Alan's books every year both at hiking season and at winter camping season. Any way thanks all If any body sees anything else please chime in.

Paul,

As someone who just got into the ultralight thing in the past couple of years... I sympathize. I just want to repeat things that other people have already mentioned, but with a different emphasis:

You will always be able to find something lighter than what you have. Always. You just have to decide what you are willing to carry, and what you are willing to spend to lighten. So, if the GPS is important to you, I say keep it. If you get heavily into the ultralight thing in the future and ounces start to really matter to you, then you can reconsider the GPS, or perhaps save a few ounces with a Garmin Geko or a GPS watch.

If you want to slim down quickly then the Big Three is the place to start, as mentioned:

#1 pack: I understand that you have found a pack with a suspension that you find comfortable, but there are lighter packs with decent suspensions out there. They aren't complex suspinsions mind you, but they are out there. Gossamer Gear makes light packs that at least have aluminum stays, for instance (save 20 ounces). Not all lightweight packs are suspensionless like the GoLite Jam2 (which happens to be one of my current packs). And, maybe years from now when you've gotten your pack weight WAY down the suspensionless packs won't be so uncomfortable. As a bonus, ultralight backpacks can be cheaper than many normal packs.

#2 tent: I sympathize with you regarding your wife's insistence on a nice big tent. (I won't get into my own spousal issues...) You can lose ounces cheaply by replacing your shelter with a tarp, as you mentioned, but a truly light bomber freestanding double-walled tent will (as you can imagine) cost you. They are out there- Big Sky International makes some neat ones- but they are financially painful. Good luck. Another option might be any of the 2-person designs by Tarptent, or similar. They are single-walled, and I'm not sure how your wife will feel about that, but they do have floors and mesh to keep the bugs out. You could save about a pound with one of these.

#3 sleeping bag: The sleeping system is the place where most lightweight fanatics drop serious cash. You mentioned that you covet a new bag. I say go for it- You're going to spend a lot on a nice bag anyway, so why not throw a fraction more $ at the problem, and get a light one. I have (painfully) made the transition to quilts, and I'm currently coveting one of the Nunatak Arc quilts for colder weather. 20 degrees, 20 ounces. (Roughly.) Gossamer Gear and some other companies make top-bags, if you just can't wrap your brain around the quilt thing.

Then, sit down with all your gear and ask yourself "What have I not used?" Anything that you can't remember using in the past year- sell it. I suspect that you might find that you haven't used all those clothes in a long time, barring special circumstances such as winter snow-camping, or whatever. But do you really need 1-pound mountaineering pants for hikes like this? I'm not one of those "don't carry more clothes than you can wear at once" fanatics, but I agree- you can lose a lot of the spare clothes. (I carry spare socks, for instance. I also tend to wear a short-sleeved base layer in warmer weather, and carry a backup long-sleeverd base layer in case it cools off. I guess I could wear both if i had too...)

I agree quite vehemently with the one comment made about your cooking setup- If all you do is boil water, wow, you can do that for a lot less weight than a JetBoil! Especially on trips less than a week, you can use a Caldera Cone or other alcohol or Esbit-style stove. If you use ethanol for fuel, you can drink it, too. (Alcohol stoves lose their weight advantage on longer trips, because the alcohol weighs more than isopropanol or other gases. There are several highly scientific articles about this issue on this website, if you want to search for them.) I suspect that the higher fuel efficiency of the JetBoil will only save weight for VERY long trips with no resupply stops, compared to a lightweight titanium gas stove.

And, don't let these guys fool you- the "you don't need a knife" thing is for the REAL fanatics. I think that any of the lighter multi-tools is a reasonable choice. I have a Leatherman Squirt. (Which I prefer to the Micra because the pliers come in handy for gear repairs, though I miss the tweezers sometimes.) But I agree that if you have one of these then the Spyderco is redundant, even though it is only 0.8 ounces.

Good luck.

Edited by acrosome on 03/25/2009 06:30:38 MDT.

Hi everybody. Thanks for the tips. I sat down this past week and really went through everything and did some serious work and picked out things that were not serving as much use as I thought they might. So here is an updated list.

PACK OSPREY ATMOS 50 49 OZ Trimmed a bit removing extra straps plan to cut off some more soon (I really don't need a loop for 2 ice axes as I don't even own one and I don't think I ever will. Snip Snip.
TENT BLACK DIAMOND FIRSTLIGHT 53.2 OZ Dropped a couple ounces leaving out the Extra stakes I was packing. I can pitch and guide this tent out with only 4 stakes if I try.
SLEEPING BAG Marmot Sawtooth reg 48.0 OZ still wanting to replace for warm weather with a 30 degree 26 OZ bag but as the BUDGET alows
SLEEPING PAD THERMAREST PROLITE 3S 13.2 OZ keep
SLEPPING BAG SACK SEA TO SUMMIT SIL DRY SACK 1.3 OZ(plan to add Shoulder strap to use as day pack)

Extra Clothing(carried)

RAIN SHIRT GOLITE WISP JACKET 2.6(not totally waterproof) see umbrella switched to new SD hurricane LT jacket about the same weight as the wind jacket and the umbrella combined so no weight change.
RAIN PANTS GOLITE REED PANTS 4.3 keep
PANTS MOUNTAIN HARD WEAR ZIP-OFF PANTS 16.0 (plan to buy) dropped in favor of mid weight thermal for insulation on legs
GLOVES MOUNTAIN HEARDWEAR POWER STRETCH 1.3 keep
BASE LAYER SMARTWOOL MID WEIGHT ZIP T 8.1 keep
EXTRA SOCKS Smartwool ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.6 keep for sleeping in
SLEEPING HAT Smartwool Training Cap ? (plan to buy) still plan to buy now using light lycra stretch cap
UMBRELLA GOLITE DOME UMBRELA 9.5(used Wisp/Umbrella system on a few trips and like but just got Sierra Designs Hurricane LT rain jacket at 12 OZ could go with either jacket and leave umbrella. Dropped see above

Cooking – Water

STOVE JET BOIL 13.8 Keep I do cook other stuff in this than just boil and bag, made some pasta that needed to cook for 5-8 min to get it just right.
BOWL ORIKASO FOLD FLAT BOWL 1.2 keep
UTENSIL JET BOIL UTENSILS (FORK & SPOON) 0.8 keep
WATER BOTTLE Platypus 1 ltr bottle 0.8 keep
WATER FILTER KATIDINE HIKER PRO 13.7 keep but swithced stuff sacks at over an OZ saved
WATER STORAGE PLATYPUS WATER TANKER 6 LT 3.0 may switch to a 2 ltr
Hot water/cook bottle Nalgene 16oz wide mouth bottle 3.2 keep


Miscellaneous Items

HEADLAMP PETZL TATCTICA 2.8 keep
TOOLS LEATHERMAN SQUIRT P4 2.0 Drop
TOWEL MSR ULTRALIGHT PACKTOWL SM 0.8 Switch to 2 bandanas one add to the cook system for clean up the other as a towel, wear about the same but more functional
FIRST AID AMK ULTRALIGHT .7 KIT REDUCED 5.3 keep
KNIFE SPYDERCO MICRO 0.6 keep
NAVIGATION GRAMIN VISTA GPS W BATTERIES 5.9 keep
BATTERIES SPARE AA BATERIES 1.8 keep
SKIN CARE SUNSCREEN, CHAP STICK 1.0 keep
BUG SPRAY BUG SPRAY 1.0 keep
TOILETRIES TP, SHOVEL, HAND SANITIZER, TOOTH BRUSH, ETC. 4.0 keep except for the trowel switched to tent stake cut 1 OZ difference.
HIKING POLES LEKI MAKALU PLUS 21.9 Dropping to only one, Hiked with the pair yesterday and found myself caring them a lot, I used to hike with them all the time but got away from them and I'm not used to them any for, but they were handy for clearing tumble weeds from the trail and in the past I have used them to flick a snake out of the trail so I like the idea of having at least one. Saves 1/2 so about 11 OZ
iPOD IPOD TOUCH W SONY HEADPHONES 4.5 I probably will drop this to mostly just because I don't want to break it on the trail.

Clothing Worn - Items Carried

SHIRT GOLITE MICRO T 3.7 keep
SHORTS SWIM TRUNKS 4.9 keep but may cut out the liner to have quick dry shorts
SOCKS SMARTWOOL ADRENALIN MINI CREW 1.5 Drop
SHOES MERRELL MESA VENT 30.0 (might change to hiking in my vibram five fingers full time saveing 30oz in shoes and 1.5 oz in socks -keep one packed pair for sleeping in) Drop Decided I am going to commit to hiking in my Five Fingers full time, they are supper comfortable and after yesterdays hike with full pack I felt good about them
HAT BASE BALL CAP 3.1 Will probably switch over to a light weight broad brimmed hat, I have a heavy cheap one that I started wearing occasionally and I like not having to worry as much about sun screen on my face, neck, ears etc. I burn easily so this is a better choice any way


A few things I have added

1. added .5 ltr Platty for carring cooking oil in 1OZ
2. added mini bic and some dryer lint in a zip bag for fire started and if the igniter on my stove should fail. 0.6 OZ


So with all of this sorting out my spread sheet says I am at 17 Lbs. full skin out at this point. A lot better than the 21.3 from 2 weeks ago and that is staying with the big 3, pack, bag and tent. Changing my bag to the one I have been looking at would re-total me at 15.6 lbs. I am feeling great with this. I know that it is not nearly as low as a lot of you but compared to were I used to be at it feels like all my gear is made of down. :)

As a side note yesterday me and a hiking buddy went for a hike in the Hagerman National Fossil beds here in Idaho, 4 miles one way and 1940 feet of + loss on the way out and 1940 feet of gain on the way back to the cars. See below for why I like having my Gps





This was a fun hike but educational as well. It was the first full pack weight hike I have done with my Five Fingers shoes and other than a bit more foot break-in they felt good with this load. Having the Gps gives me some good idea as to how I was feeling at varying distances and types of terrain. as you can see in the elevation profile this trail was pretty level for the most part other than one good hill but it was enough to give me an idea how my shoes and feet would handle a good up hill push. And yes I am a tech geek so having the average speed, amount of time moving vers stopped, elevation gain and lost, and trip odometer probably don't matter to much in the grand scheme of hiking it can still help me to figure out how we will do on a longer hike to plan out our milage, hence the number of days, and consequently the amount of consumables to plan for.

So with all of the improvements of the last couple of weeks that I have made with all of your help and advice please keep it coming!