Hello all, longtime reader of backpackinglight, but this is my firstime posting.

I live in NYC and have been backpacking with my wife for just coming up on our 3rd year. 3 season mostly, although I have more tolerance for rough weather than she does.

this year I'd like to do some higher peaks, and some longer treks... hopefully I'll make it out west for a week in northern California redwoods too.

here is my list right now, I'd really appreciate help identifying the best weight/bulk reductions. I've put "!" in front of the items I know need addressing, alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Everyone!

2008 3 Season Backpacking Gear List:
23lb (375.81oz) *Carried*
4.04lb (64.7oz) *Worn*
4lb+ easlily reduced if need be.

Kitchen: 3.38lb (54.04oz)
MSR Pocket Rocket (3oz)
MSR IsoPro Fuel (8oz)
Brunton Canstand (0.7oz)
Kataden Hiker Pro Filter (11oz)
Aquamira Water Treatment Drops (1oz) *Repackage*
! Chinatown Steel Cook Pot (12oz?)
! GSI Stainless steel cup (5.2oz) *Replace with Lexan or Silicone*
! Nalgene Wide Mouth Bottle (6.2oz) *Replace with Platypus*
! Guyot Designs Nalgene Splash Guard (0.14oz) *Only Nalgene*
Permaware Lexan Spork (0.4oz)
Folded Aluminum Foil (0.3oz)
Mini Bic Lighter (.4oz)
Ursus Ultralite Bear Bag (2.2oz) *Hang via PCT Method*
50' paracord (3.5oz) *Replace with ultralight?*

Toiletries: .375lb (6oz)?
Childs Toothbrush
! Toms of Maine Mini Toothpaste *Replace with dried chips or Powder*
Floss wrapped around toothpaste
Doctor Bronner's Soap repackaged
MSR PackTowl UltraLite Medium (0.8oz)
Folded Toilet Paper in small ziplock
Baby Wipes in small ziplock
Red Snap'r Plastic Trowel (1.7oz)
Insect Repellant in small bottle
Sunscreen in small tube
Toilet Paper in small ziplock
Deodorant Crystal in small ziplock

Shelter: 4.19lb (67oz)
MSR Trekker Tent (4lb) *split weight with Emma*
! Space Blanket as Groundcloth (3oz) *Replace with tyvek footprint*

Bedding: 4.63lb (74oz)
EMS Mountain Light 20 (2lb 3oz) *must replace stuffsack with silnylon*
Therm-a-Rest ProLite 4 (1lb 8oz) tied with small fabric strip
Sea To Summit Reactor Liner (8oz) *only carried in cold or as a summer sheet*
Therm-a-Rest Small Pillow (7oz) *I'm on vacation*

10 Essentials: 1lb (15.69oz)
SUUNTO M-2 Locator Compass (1.3oz) *right pants pocket*
Custom Waterproof Map (0.1oz?) *Trimmed to size right pants pocket*
Waterproof Matches (0.25oz) *redundant, but comforting*
Birthday candle + Tinder (0.25oz) *fire starter*
Magnesium Fire Starter (1.5oz) *redundant, but comforting*
Benchmade Pika Knife (1.8oz) *Left pants pocket daily carry*
Leatherman Fuse Multitool (6oz) *admittedly overkill*
First Aid (3oz?)
EPI-Pen *for bee stings*
4 Aspirin
4 Ibuprofen
Antihistamine *allergies/pain/bee stings/sleep aid*
Antibiotic Ointment *4 packets*
Antiseptic wipes *4 packets*
Folded Medical Tape *little wounds*
Folded Duct Tape *big wounds or equipment repairs*
2 Sterile Gauze
4 Band-aids
4 Butterfly Closures
1 Moleskin sheet
12" Folded Duct Tape
Needle & Thread *wrapped *
4 Safety Pins
Tweezers *does this overlap multitool?*
Photon Microlight II LED (.24oz)
! Emergency Whistle (.5oz?) *Metal w/Pea replace with fox40*
Emergency Space Blanket (1oz) *Doubles as groundcloth*

Misc: 2lb (32.05oz)
Leki Makalu Trail Antishock Trekking Poles (19oz) *used as Tent poles*
Petzl Tactikka Plus Headlamp (2.75oz)
Micro Pocket Monocular (1.8oz)
Canon SD 1000 Camera (3.4oz) (Emma usually carries)
Carabiners various small sizes (1oz)
Homemade braided elastic clothesline (.5oz)
Samsung SCH-u740 Cellphone (3.6oz) *weather via TXT or Emergency*

Clothing Carried: 5.49lb (87.8oz)
Marmont Rain shell (14oz)
EMS Thunderhead Rain Pants (11.3oz) *uneeded for very warm or dry weather*
! EMS Zipper Soft Shell (1lb 6oz) *replace with down shirt for cold*
! EMS Polypro Thermal Shirt (5oz) *Replace with lightweight Merino*
! EMS Polypro Thermal Pants (6.8oz) *Replace with lightweight Merino*
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz) *swap for heavyweight if cold weather*
! EMS Beanie (1.5oz?) *prefer merino wool*
Crocs (5.4oz) *ugly but comfy and light*

Clothing Worn: 4.04lb (64.7oz)
! Baseball cap (5oz?) *sun and rain protection replace with other cap?*
Cotton Bandana (.5oz) *worn around neck like a bandit*
! EMS Techwick Crew t-shirt (4.4oz) *Replace with antimicrobial*
! EMS Tecwick Boxers (1oz) *Replace with antimicrobial or Merino*
EMS Profile Zip-Off Pants (16oz)
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz)
La Sportiva Venture XCR Mid (2lb 13.5 oz)

Backpack/Bags: 3.38lb (54oz) approx
Gregory Z-pack 3500 ci (2lb 14oz)
Sea To Summit Pack fly Medium (4oz)
Drawstring Sack - Clothing *Replace with Silnylon*
Drawstring Sack - Kitchen *Replace with Silnylon*
Drawstring Sack - 10 Essentials *Replace with Silnylon*
Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small- First Aid
Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small - Toiletries
Silnylon Sack - for Inner Tent *Emma carries*
Silnylong Sack - for outer Tent *I carry*
Silnylong Sack - for spikes/guylines
Compression Sack - Sleeping Bag *Replace with Silnylon*

Jack,

I started going thru your list, and I just had to stop. My heart was sinking.


23lb *Carried* (is this your BASE weight?) - - - - - Without FOOD or water? Am I reading this right?

Say it ain't so...


You have a posted a standard list for a TRADITIONAL backpacker. And - This is a forum for LIGHTWEIGHT backpacking. It would be hard to evaluate your list, it would require a lot of time. I suggest you present a revised list, appropriate for this forum.

Just so you know - You could EASILY cut that down to 11.5 pounds (half), and with just a little bit of extra dedication, get it down to under 10 pounds (less than half).

I suggest getting the book LIGHTEN UP! by Don Ladigan. It's simple and a great place to start.

And, you could review my pack contents from my summer season (2008)

Here's my summer list:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/80a5cd1800fbac69c35fad3f320f5461.pdf

I am a huge advocate of a lightweight pack, but you'll need to at least "try" to present a list that shows a little dedication to the cause.

A light pack is totally worth it - Please, you'll enjoy the rewards.

(Am I being harsh? I hope not, it's not my intention)

Edited by mikeclelland on 03/22/2009 17:02:22 MDT.

If I had a base weight of 23 lbs, I just wouldn't go!

That whole foot-hurtin', heart-pounding in your ears, every step is a monumental effort feeling you get from traditional heavy packing saps all enjoyment out of the enterprise for me....

The list below could EASILY be completely eliminated. If you don't bring ANY of the items below, you will be just fine.



N I X items below:

============



Kataden Hiker Pro Filter (11oz)

MSR PackTowl UltraLite Medium (0.8oz)

Folded Toilet Paper in small ziplock

Baby Wipes in small ziplock

Red Snap'r Plastic Trowel (1.7oz)

Toilet Paper in small ziplock

Deodorant Crystal in small ziplock

! Space Blanket as Groundcloth (3oz) *Replace with tyvek footprint*

Sea To Summit Reactor Liner (8oz) *only carried in cold or as a summer sheet*

Therm-a-Rest Small Pillow (7oz) *I'm on vacation*

Magnesium Fire Starter (1.5oz) *redundant, but comforting*

Leatherman Fuse Multitool (6oz) *admittedly overkill*

Emergency Space Blanket (1oz) *Doubles as groundcloth*

Petzl Tactikka Plus Headlamp (2.75oz)

Micro Pocket Monocular (1.8oz)

Carabiners various small sizes (1oz)

Homemade braided elastic clothesline (.5oz)

Samsung SCH-u740 Cellphone (3.6oz) *weather via TXT or Emergency*

Crocs (5.4oz) *ugly but comfy and light*

Sea To Summit Pack fly Medium (4oz)

Drawstring Sack - Clothing *Replace with Silnylon*

Drawstring Sack - Kitchen *Replace with Silnylon*

Drawstring Sack - 10 Essentials *Replace with Silnylon*

Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small- First Aid

Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small - Toiletries

Silnylong Sack - for spikes/guylines

Compression Sack - Sleeping Bag *Replace with Silnylon*

Edited by mikeclelland on 03/22/2009 17:00:48 MDT.

2008 3 Season Backpacking Gear List:
23lb (375.81oz) *Carried* C’mon! dude! Way to heavy!
4.04lb (64.7oz) *Worn* This is heavy!
4lb+ easlily reduced if need be. DO IT!!!

Kitchen: 3.38lb (54.04oz) OMG!
MSR Pocket Rocket (3oz) Ti Esbit Stove
MSR IsoPro Fuel (8oz) Esbit Tabs
Brunton Canstand (0.7oz) nix
Kataden Hiker Pro Filter (11oz) BOTH? nix
Aquamira Water Treatment Drops (1oz) *Repackage* good
! Chinatown Steel Cook Pot (12oz?) OMG!!! Replace with Ti pot
! GSI Stainless steel cup (5.2oz) *Replace with Lexan or Silicone* nix!
! Nalgene Wide Mouth Bottle (6.2oz) *Replace with Platypus* yes, go with platy
! Guyot Designs Nalgene Splash Guard (0.14oz) *Only Nalgene* nix
Permaware Lexan Spork (0.4oz)
Folded Aluminum Foil (0.3oz)
Mini Bic Lighter (.4oz)
Ursus Ultralite Bear Bag (2.2oz) *Hang via PCT Method*
50' paracord (3.5oz) *Replace with ultralight?* nope. Paracord is fine

Toiletries: .375lb (6oz)? way too much
Childs Toothbrush (only for trips longer than a week)
! Toms of Maine Mini Toothpaste *Replace with dried chips or Powder* (only for trips longer than a week)
Floss wrapped around toothpaste nix
Doctor Bronner's Soap repackaged (only for trips longer than a week)
MSR PackTowl UltraLite Medium (0.8oz)
Folded Toilet Paper in small ziplock (go with paper towels-they work better)
Baby Wipes in small ziplock(only for trips longer than a week)
Red Snap'r Plastic Trowel (1.7oz) nix
Insect Repellant in small bottle (100% DEET)
Sunscreen in small tube
Toilet Paper in small ziplock (I sense some redundancy)
Deodorant Crystal in small ziplock nix

Shelter: 4.19lb (67oz)
MSR Trekker Tent (4lb) *split weight with Emma* (go with tarp instead!)
! Space Blanket as Groundcloth (3oz) *Replace with tyvek footprint* yes, Tyvek is WAY better

Bedding: 4.63lb (74oz)
EMS Mountain Light 20 (2lb 3oz) *must replace stuffsack with silnylon*
Therm-a-Rest ProLite 4 (1lb 8oz) tied with small fabric strip
Sea To Summit Reactor Liner (8oz) *only carried in cold or as a summer sheet* nix-the sleeping bag is enough
Therm-a-Rest Small Pillow (7oz) *I'm on vacation* NIX!

10 Essentials: 1lb (15.69oz)
SUUNTO M-2 Locator Compass (1.3oz) *right pants pocket*
Custom Waterproof Map (0.1oz?) *Trimmed to size right pants pocket*
Waterproof Matches (0.25oz) *redundant, but comforting* nix, Bic lighter is more than enough
Birthday candle + Tinder (0.25oz) *fire starter* fine I guess
Magnesium Fire Starter (1.5oz) *redundant, but comforting* nix, Bic lighter is more than enough
Benchmade Pika Knife (1.8oz) *Left pants pocket daily carry* Go with razor blade (0.1 oz!)
Leatherman Fuse Multitool (6oz) *admittedly overkill*yes, NIX!
First Aid (3oz?) take only blister care and meds!
EPI-Pen *for bee stings* nix!
4 Aspirin
4 Ibuprofen
Antihistamine *allergies/pain/bee stings/sleep aid*
Antibiotic Ointment *4 packets*
Antiseptic wipes *4 packets* nix
Folded Medical Tape *little wounds*
Folded Duct Tape *big wounds or equipment repairs* wrap around trekking poles
2 Sterile Gauze
4 Band-aids
4 Butterfly Closures
1 Moleskin sheet
12" Folded Duct Tape
Needle & Thread *wrapped *
4 Safety Pins
Tweezers *does this overlap multitool?*
Photon Microlight II LED (.24oz)
! Emergency Whistle (.5oz?) *Metal w/Pea replace with fox40* nix
Emergency Space Blanket (1oz) *Doubles as groundcloth* nix!!!

Misc: 2lb (32.05oz)
Leki Makalu Trail Antishock Trekking Poles (19oz) *used as Tent poles*
Petzl Tactikka Plus Headlamp (2.75oz)
Micro Pocket Monocular (1.8oz)
Canon SD 1000 Camera (3.4oz) (Emma usually carries)
Carabiners various small sizes (1oz) ??? nix-keep only one for PCT method bearbagging
Homemade braided elastic clothesline (.5oz) nix!
Samsung SCH-u740 Cellphone (3.6oz) *weather via TXT or Emergency*

Clothing Carried: 5.49lb (87.8oz)
Marmont Rain shell (14oz)
EMS Thunderhead Rain Pants (11.3oz) *uneeded for very warm or dry weather*
! EMS Zipper Soft Shell (1lb 6oz) *replace with down shirt for cold*
! EMS Polypro Thermal Shirt (5oz) *Replace with lightweight Merino*
! EMS Polypro Thermal Pants (6.8oz) *Replace with lightweight Merino* NIX
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz) *swap for heavyweight if cold weather*
! EMS Beanie (1.5oz?) *prefer merino wool*
Crocs (5.4oz) *ugly but comfy and light*

Clothing Worn: 4.04lb (64.7oz)
! Baseball cap (5oz?) *sun and rain protection replace with other cap?*
Cotton Bandana (.5oz) *worn around neck like a bandit*
! EMS Techwick Crew t-shirt (4.4oz) *Replace with antimicrobial*
! EMS Tecwick Boxers (1oz) *Replace with antimicrobial or Merino*
EMS Profile Zip-Off Pants (16oz)
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz)
La Sportiva Venture XCR Mid (2lb 13.5 oz)

Backpack/Bags: 3.38lb (54oz) approx
Gregory Z-pack 3500 ci (2lb 14oz)
Sea To Summit Pack fly Medium (4oz) nix!
Drawstring Sack - Clothing *Replace with Silnylon*
Drawstring Sack - Kitchen *Replace with Silnylon*
Drawstring Sack - 10 Essentials *Replace with Silnylon*
Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small- First Aid
Silnylon/Mesh Pouch small - Toiletries
Silnylon Sack - for Inner Tent *Emma carries*
Silnylong Sack - for outer Tent *I carry*
Silnylong Sack - for spikes/guylines
Compression Sack - Sleeping Bag *Replace with Silnylon*

you always beat me with the nix list!!!

lol, cheers

Edited by edude on 03/22/2009 17:03:10 MDT.

I'm quick!

>>EPI-Pen *for bee stings* nix!

Folks that carry these need them for severe allergic reactions (death) from bee stings. Not something to be left behind...

Yes, good call...definitely KEEP the EPI-pen.

and Evan, what do you mean by antimicrobial? I'm sure the EMS Tecwick stuff will work just fine.

I would recommend not using a compression sack. either get a pack liner and stuff the bag into the bottom of your bag or just get a normal sil stuff sack. compression sacks can cause undue damage to your bag...especially on longer trips.

Maybe get lighter pair of zip-off pants...16 oz is a lot.

Crocs can definitely be removed if you lighten up your pack some more wear trail runners/light hikers, preferably NOT heavy boots.

definitely get rid of soft shell jacket...if rain shell is not breathable/comfortable enough while hiking then get wind shirt.

you could certainly get lighter trekking poles.

first aid kit can be greatly reduced.

Keep the whistle.

Keep the pack cover/fly. However, I would recommend getting a pack liner instead...much lighter and you don't have to worry about it getting stuck/damaged by branches, rocks, etc.

Hope you get to go out West for some longer trips!

>"and Evan, what do you mean by antimicrobial? I'm sure the EMS Tecwick stuff will work just fine."

I didn't say anything like that? He said that. My comments were either in parentheses or in nothing at all.

cheers

Edited by edude on 03/22/2009 17:58:31 MDT.

ohhh, sry Evan. I assumed you wrote it...now I see it was on Jack's original list. Sorry!

It's ok, Peter.

Jack, sorry, didn't know you needed the bee-sting thingy. Definetly don't leave it behind if you really need it.

cheers

Thanks so much everyone... I did realize in advance that my pack is in need of really trimming, but I felt it best to post my full carry and then do the trimming using your advice. In other words this is my starting weight, and by the looks of this thread I can cut alout of lbs pretty quickly.

It's pretty clear that this is my first foray into Ultralight backpacking, and while I don't know if I'll ever get as light as many of the users here I'd really like to cut the weight I carry.

I'll take into account the suggestions here and give a shot at a true ultralight list.

Thanks everyone.

Mike, on your nix list you cut toilet paper and the scat trowel, What alternatives are there for handling human waste in the wilderness?

Evan, the antimicrobal and merino wool changes I'm trying to make in my clothing are attempts to manage the body odor that results from wearing all polypro... I'm more prone to trailfunk than some ;) carrying as much weight as I have been can't help.

on the water treatment side of things I had read that aqua mirra treats some pathogens, and the filtration handles others... as most of my trail time is spent in the heavily used catskill range I'm extra cautions about water, have I been hoodwinked by the outdoor industry? or is the situation in other areas less severe?

as I said above... let me give this a go and post a new list that takes into account what has been said here.

mike's favorite topic, that is....handling scat in the backcountry!'

If you're already going to be carrying aqua mira, you should consider switching out the hiker pro for the aqua mira frontier pro.

Check out this recent thread here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19540

I'm a Hiker Pro user, but I just got a Frontier Pro. They're cheap. Campsaver is having a 20% off sale code "spring20" thru the end of march and depending on shipping you can pick one up for ~24.

The upshot is, the Frontier Pro doesn't filter as much as the Hiker Pro, so it requires a chemical treatment as well. You're already carrying that, so . . . a fairly cheap and easy way to cut 8-9 oz, depending on whether you just use it as an inline filter, or make a gravity system.

I am going to try the first lightweight hike later this month. I'm still relatively new to backpacking in general, so I have a bit of duplicity and caution with some elements... but I am amazed at how easy it was to drop so much weight. I've never slept out in a tarp, but I've intended on trying it out since buying the MSR trekker 2 years ago. Also, I've been wanting to get familair with alcohol stoves, but haven't had the motivation to really try one until now.

any suggestions going from here without adding a bunch of expensive gear? 13lb weight reduction sofar.

KINDALIGHT 2009 3 SEASON LIST:
Pack: 12.17lb
Worn/pockets: 5.67lb

KITCHEN 29oz:
Homemade beverage-can stove (1.6oz)
Fuel alcohol in small bottle (3oz)
Hiker Pro Filter (11oz)
Aqua Mira Drops (1oz)
Hard Anodized Aluminum Cookpot (5oz?) $20?
Platypus 2L Bottle (1.2oz) $9
Lexan Spork (0.4oz)
Aluminum Foil (0.3oz)
Mini Bic (0.4oz)
Bear Bag tiny carabiner (2.3oz) *PCT hanging method*
50' paracord (3.5oz)
[note: suggestions for cheap aluminum cookpot options appreciated. need to experiment with alcohol stoves]

TOILETRIES 2-3oz:
Infant Toothbrush trimmed (0.3oz) $2
Toothpaste powder
Floss
Soap repackaged
paper towels cut in small ziplock
Deet repackaged
[note: not yet willing to sacrifice dental care. cathole with knife or trek pole]

SHELTER 34.7oz:
MSR Trekker Tarp (32oz)
Bug net (1.2oz) $8
Tyvek Groundcloth (1.5oz)
[note: removed 2lb mesh insert tarp only, add bug hood for sleeping]

BED 42.5oz:
EMS Mountain Light 20 (35oz)
Closed cell pad (7.5oz) $17
[note: ball up clothes tied in bandana for pillow, removed liner, and swap for closed cell pad]

SURVIVAL 7.6oz:
Magnesium Fire Starter (1.5oz)
First Aid (1.5oz)
Photon Microlight LED (0.24oz)
Emergency Whistle (0.02oz)
Samsung SCH-u740 Cellphone (3.6oz) *emergency only*

CLOTHES CARRY 35.9oz:
Marmont Rain shell (14oz)
MontBell Thermawrap Jacket (8.8oz) $140 *had my eye on this*
Polypro Thermal Shirt (5oz)
Polypro Thermal Pants (4.8oz)
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz)
Polypro Beanie (1.5oz)
[note: replace 1lb softshell with thermawrap, and keep thermals for 30 degree northeast spring/fall mornings]

PACK 42oz:
Gregory Z-pack 3500 ci (40oz) *can probably find alternative*
Plastic Bag Liner (1oz)
silnylon stuffsack for sleepingbag (1oz)
[notes: Plastic liner instead of packfly. Removed sacks and bags. Trim all labels/straps/strings/tags, remove pack lid for weight savings]
________

CLOTHES WORN 68oz:
Baseball cap (5oz)
Cotton Bandana (.5oz) *worn around neck*
Techwick Crew t-shirt (4.4oz)
Tecwick Boxers (1oz)
Zip-Off Pants (16oz)
Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew (1.8oz)
La Sportiva Venture XCR Mid (40oz) *I'll look into alternatives*

CARRIED/POCKETS 22.8oz:
Trekking Poles (19oz) *used with tarp*
Ductape Wound Pole (0.2oz)
Compass (1.3oz)
Gerber Ultralight LST Knife (0.6oz) $10
Map (0.1oz)

Hi Jack, awesome weight reduction my friend! You're at a point now where you need to take this gear out on a trip to see how everything works for you. 12 lbs. is a pretty light baseweight in the grand scheme of things, and as long as you are comfortable and warm, you're gonna enjoy packing alot more. Gear thoughts:

- Keep the dental care and soap if you want. We're talking less than 4 oz. here, and long term repercussions from deferred maintenance on your teeth isn't worth saving a couple ounces.

- There are alot of lightweight options for pillows. Try this: partially inflate your Platy and wrap it in something soft. Haven't done this with a Platy, but it works well with Nalgene Cantenes.

- Spend a night out in your yard with the CCF pad. Some can use them and be comfortable, others need something thicker/cushier. Don't sacrifice sleeping comfort for a few ounces! If you awaken stiff, sore, and unrested, you won't be a happy camper! A nice pad is the one place I'll carry a little extra weight, but it's a decision you have to make for yourself.

Now that your pack weight is significantly less, the decisions you make about gear (replace with something lighter? Don't take at all?) will have much less impact on the weight you're carrying. Make a list of everything in your pack before you leave, and anything you don't use, leave it out next time. Needless to say, this doesn't apply to meds and especially the EPI.

Have Fun! That's the whole point here, and I bet that lighter pack is gonna increase your fun potential exponentially!

Read this article and liberate yourself from toilet paper.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

And, you can easily dig a hole with a stick or a tent stake.

More importantly, you liberate yourself from packing out toilet paper....far more odious, in my book, than going without it altogether.