Hello All,

First off, let me say that I will defend everyone's right to blind reflex contrarianism, non-constructive criticism, dogmatic orthodoxies, invidious lifestyle, racial, and nationalistic sterotypes, willful misinterpretation in the name of conflict escalation, hostility and condescension as a first resort, and ad hominem slurs. What would the internet be without these crucial interpersonal resources? But in the name of all that is holy, what the heck is going on here lately? Is it March Madness? Economic malaise? Late winter fever? Vitamin D defficiency? Acute, chronic misting? Titanium poisoning? It's bumming me out, and I don't think I'm alone.

I am going to proceed on the assumption that most BPLers are of the kinder sort who see a place for patience, humor, and polite disagreement alongside the above list. Surely there is a larger common ground we can find. If a person's primary hobby was arguing, I doubt they would be part of something like BPL to begin with, as the woods would presumably provide little enjoyment.

I propose a thread to remind us of what we share, and how we can go about enjoying those things while cultivating our better selves. Stories of on-trail kindnesses. Pictures of adorable pets. You get the idea. If it instead becomes a thread about how dare anyone tell you how and what to type, I'm sure the irony will not be lost, however disappointing it may be.

So, any suggestions to let some sunshine into this place? It is always darkest right before the light?

James

Edited by dubendorf on 03/19/2009 12:58:59 MDT.

well said. right on!

Hey James,

Have you read "Out Stealing Horses" by Per Petterson? Based on your other tastes I think you might like it....very Heminway-esque...lots of work narrative, nature narrative. masculine "terse" style, but beautiful as well. Good book. I highly recommend it.

I think so...........but I'll have to look up some of those fancy words to be sure..........

"It is always darkest right before the light?"

James,
Be of good cheer for the vernal equinox draweth nigh. Soon all
of this shall evaporate like the bad dream that it is beneath the cleansing rays of the sun.

Well, judging by today's posts, we might have to scale the proposal back.

Like make it really modest.

Like so modest you can barely see it.

And maybe insert a clause like "But I withhold to right to argue for argument's sake ad infinitum" or something like that in the fine print. Then maybe folks will get on board.

I love my family, and I can't wait to involve them more in my backpacking "obsession". I hope I can get atleast one of my girls addicted to the trail as much as I am. Atleast my oldest LOVES tents and sleeping bags.

James --

Absolutely the best opening post I've seen in a long time around here. Here are a few swings at your challenge:

But first, regarding this:

" But in the name of all that is holy, what the heck is going on here lately? Is it March Madness? Economic malaise? Late winter fever? Vitamin D defficiency? Acute, chronic misting? Titanium poisoning? It's bumming me out, and I don't think I'm alone."

Don't know what "it" is, but it's definitely epidemic and also seems to be contagious. Best advice: skip over.

And this:

"If a person's primary hobby was arguing, I doubt they would be part of something like BPL to begin with, as the woods would presumably provide little enjoyment."

Not as a hobby, but (for some) perhaps a consequence of aging, and dawning senility might bring a tendency to talk to oneself. But no reason that those folks (if they admit the affliction) couldn't broaden their horizons -- like by talking to trees, for example.

Now, to the point:

"I propose a thread to remind us of what we share, and how we can go about enjoying those things while cultivating our better selves. Stories of on-trail kindnesses. Pictures of adorable pets."

I recall one time, about four decades ago, that I left my point-and-shoot camera by accident at the base of a pitch in the Tetons. Upon returning to the Jenny Lake Ranger Station later to sign out, I was amazed to find my camera being held safe there for its owner to claim.

Someone had rescued my camera and done the right thing, a nice gesture that I still recall after all these years.

In case you're out there somewhere, THANKS!

And kudos again to you, James for a great opening post!

JRS

"First off, let me say that I will defend everyone's right to blind reflex contrarianism, non-constructive criticism, dogmatic orthodoxies, invidious lifestyle, racial, and nationalistic sterotypes, willful misinterpretation in the name of conflict escalation, hostility and condescension as a first resort, and ad hominem slurs"

I must have missed something very non-subtle, or not visited the right forums, but what is this post in reference too?

The firearms post, I'm sure.

Oh, which one (or both)??

The one that is not being reintroduced here :)

So...Tim did a great job on converting my Golite Ultra into an under quilt for my hammock. Tim does really solid and fast work. I just got it back today, and I am excited to try it with my setup.

That's cool Johnathan, I want to caontact him about making one for me

Both (note to self, order .223 brass). Anyway....by the time you do the hammock, tarp, pad, underquilt, overquilt, and whatever else it takes.....do you save any weight by hammocking? I just don't get it, enlighten me. Or is that a thread hijack? Seems a shame to get back to gear and backpacking.

"The one that is not being reintroduced here :)"

That's a shame, as I really can't fathom why that 'topic' was so offensive to some. If I can't even ask the question in chaff, I would cry violation of my first amendment ;)

It's great in this case...this was the sharpie special Ultra I bought on swap from Tony for something like $45 shipped. Now it's a nice UQ. It has been reincarnated. It still needs to be washed to bring some loft back, but after I do that I'll shoot some photos.

Joe-
We need a hijack....(hammock)It's heavier, but since when do you care? Do I need to out you on your External Frame use? It's mostly a comfort thing. I have had one for years on my porch, but I am new to hammock camping.

Edited by anywayoutside on 03/19/2009 19:30:58 MDT.

Hey you guys, would you please stop talking about gear in the chaff section !

Edited to prevent reality based bashing of a sacred cow.

Edited by skinewmexico on 03/20/2009 19:02:27 MDT.

What's wrong with external frames?

I guess some things just never go away no matter how much you want them to.

"I propose a thread to remind us of what we share, and how we can go about enjoying those things while cultivating our better selves. Stories of on-trail kindnesses. Pictures of adorable pets. You get the idea. If it instead becomes a thread about how dare anyone tell you how and what to type, I'm sure the irony will not be lost, however disappointing it may be."

again, I didn't mean to start something there. It was a purely innocent/newbie mistake.

but, to your post here, I haven't been backpacking yet, so I can't tell a story of on-trail kindness.

but what I can say is my 7 year old has been talking almost daily about our July trip to the mountains and the backpacking excursion we plan on taking. He's really excicted. He even enjoys our nightly training walks.

I still have to get him a backpack though. I decided to borrow an old army ruck sack for myself so I can buy him something good. My younger kids are really jealous. My daughter (6) will probably never be able to go backpacking overnight. Maybe, I'll have to see (medical concerns). My four year old cries when he sees us load up for our training. Its said, but exciting at the same time.

We will be doing some shorter day trips in the mountains the whole family can enjoy.


Did this post meet your intentions?

an example of the how modestly modest we need to make the proposal is that even in a "positive" post one has to bash an environmental organization. just can't even get through a single positive post without some dig or putdown.

let's make it modest. like super-modest. and "proposal" seems a little rigid and confining. maybe "mild suggestion" seems better.

Nathan, I will chase down that reference- thank you.

Everyone, please feel free to hijack the thread in any direction you like- my hope was not to prohibit any certain topic, just to make the place a bit more amiable! Glad it shook so many positive vibes out of the tree.

James

Im kinda confused, i dont even know what this post is about, but i thought i might have heard something about trail stories.

When i was 16 i was climbing a 13000ft mountain with a friend of mine. We started at 6500 feet with a few oranges, a water bottle, a sack of sticky icky, and a little wooden shirlock. My friend was from Kansas and I was from Iowa, so the altitude was killer from the gitgo. We managed to make it over the tree line, and then it got ugly....miserable pace, wheezing and all....but we were determined to smoke a bowl at the summit. At the summit there is a little wall of rocks about 4 feet tall enclosing a few planks of wood set up as a bench. There were a few kids in there who were quite startled to see us, but we went in the little hut and sat down. IDK how the conversation went, but soon we each produced our own weapons and began to pow-wow for at least an hour, sturggling to light our little Bics and discussing our origins and the local quality of product. Soon after heading back down, i sprained my ankle and got cut up pretty badly by falling on the rocks above the tree line. The hike was totally miserable, but the dangerously low blood sugar and lack of oxygen made it easy for my friend and i to laugh at our misery and have a memorable and enjoyable day. Ever since then i have been in love with backpacking and have conciously continued to exercise a complete lack of preparation. People talk about worst case scenario like it's a bad thing....the way i see it, if you are totally prepared for everything that comes at you, what do you learn? what stories can you tell? No point in setting yourself up for disaster, but a decent amount of misery is a valuable tool in establishing a sense of humor that will continue to enrich ones quality of life.

They're, like, so "pokey".



external frame pack

Denis - who took that picture of you?

in terms of just how modest we better go, even in the retraction of a "positive" post, one must be negative. it can't be replaced by a "post deleted" or whatnot.... it still must have some negativity to counteract any possible positivity it might have been once construed to contain.

let's get modest!

let's get really modest!

let's get little.

i'm talking Heisenberg Principle small.

like.... real modest.

Life is just brutal, huh Dave? How about this? I'm positive I'll sleep like a baby tonight.

Edited by skinewmexico on 03/24/2009 07:02:53 MDT.

<-----this panda is happy.

Gigi Henderson took it, on the TRT south from Big Meadow, to Round Lake.

James, your opening paragraph is a truly great piece of prose, thanks for a pleasant distraction. As far as the message, I've only noticed strife in the current gun thread, which is normal. That polarizing issue will always strike dischord in any forum where the full spectrum is represented, even though the pro-gunners outnumber the anti-gunners easily 10-1. The only places people talk about guns, but don't argue, are pro-gun and anti-gun forums, where people preach to the choir.

hmphh, hmphh .....so in other news

It's early but....

My wife and I recently spent a weekend on the Chattooga and Foothills trails near Burrel's ford. The water was cold of course. I put the beers in the river at camp and made a retention wall of river rocks to keep them from floating away. The pile of oak leafs wasn't nearly as comfy as my forgotten sleeping pad, but who cares right? At least I didn't damage the shell of my new sleeping bag. The smell of my forgotten coffee woke me, along with the chill, but the tea was hot&green and on to King's Creek Falls.

Cool thread, nice prose, awesome external frame, osprey makes nice kids packs, yes that panda looks happy, spring is here, cabin fever ends soon!
Me and the Mrs just got back from a weekender at SNP climbing old rag and sleeping in Corbin Holler. It was our first "technical" (don't laugh NOLS guys) backpacking trip and my wife is still pleased as punch over some of her moves on the boulders. I'll put up some pics later. She got a movie of me breaking wind as I was crawling under a boulder. I'm sure she'll be showing that when were 90 years old.Oh yes I'm gonna get a tour of Gossamer Gear International headquartes this April Woo!Hoo!

Happy trails
Rick