Boy this is a wild one.

I have been backpacking for over 30 years. It is very rare for me to even meet an unfriendly hiker, let alone a mean or bad one. But it has a lot to do with where I prefer to be too. The harder it is to get somewhere the nicer the few people I see are.

But some of the close areas (I live in Orange County California) can be a bit scary. There is a section of the PCT that goes past some hot springs just north of here and the trail section that was closest to a road was full of gang graffiti. As we got to the hot springs we saw a couple groups of Latino bathers. As we got close a couple guys came to the edge of the pools they were in and glared at us. It was a bit uncomfortable and made me wish I did have something as it reminded me of some solo stuff I had done a couple years earlier.

I had decided that I was going to do every mile of trails in the Cleveland National forest. Most were done with some big day hikes (it is not that big an area) but I did one over-nighter, so needed a permit. In the Ranger Station the Ranger asked me if I knew the area or needed maps. I told her I had been there twice last week and she asked if I had been on the Morgan Trail. I told her yes and she asked if I had seen anybody that did NOT look like a hiker. Some dude was found on the trail shot in the side of the head. She said it was a gang killing. It makes me wonder if I am going to be some bangers initiation kill on a trail that has easy access to roads and cities.

Dan, take this statement, “I've been weirded out by people with guns in the backcountry but it was always the particular person with the gun, and not the gun itself.” A person that makes you uncomfortable is one thing, a person like that with a gun is quite another. Guns are different from knives in that they, in the context we are discussing them, have no utility beyond the psychological and they create a power disparity of enormous proportions between the armed and unarmed. If they did not, solitary women would have no cause to carry them… if they did not they would fail to provide the psychological comfort that you have referenced as the justification for their presence in the woods.

And as an American you know perfectly well why guns are controversial whereas other items are not. We are a gun and car culture where people purchase, collect and use these items far out of proportion to their actual needs.

California in general has weird and very restrictive laws on guns. You can have a conceal carry license, but the majority of counties do not uphold or have some sort of ban and do not recognize it. I'd research it further in depth with the actual local laws or federal agencies. Washington has a unified law of carry and conceal, or where you can and can't carry. A city or county does not have the authority in our state to make additional restrictions on where you can and can not carry without a change of law at the state level. Part of the major reason for that is to avoid California's problem. It is a cluster ^%$# and there is a bunch of local laws attempting to supersede state and federal laws. Which is why the mayor of Seattle is throwing a fit because the state won't let him ban conceal and carry in city and state parks in his city. The whole point is so that there is no gray areas whether you can or can not carry, so no one makes mistakes and their 2nd amendment is not infringed upon. Califonia on the other hand has no unity in laws on gun carrying, which leads to a lot of unknowns. Beings that the conceal carry ban was lifted in washington d.c. and chicago by federal courts... who knows...

Hey Raymond, I worked a couple of summers with the CCC in Cleveland National Forest, and I know what you mean by the weirdos. One of those summers a 12 year old girl was found shot dead in Blue Jay campground:

http://crime.freedomblogging.com/category/crime/murder/

But it was a domestic incident and the campground itself was right on the main Ortega highway. In any event, carrying a gun probably wouldn't have helped her, and if you camp by a main road like in a through-hike then you are certainly more at risk of encountering people wishing to do you harm.

Bob - good points. I was thinking of them while I was composing that. I still think that some of what we carry is because of fear. Certainly much of it is also the need to take care of oneself.

Michael - yes, of course I know whey people get excited over guns in the US. :)

Hi Lynn

> But Roger, what about killer crocodiles, rabid dingos and kangaroos, or nasty venemous snakes??

You forgot the Drop Bears!
But there are no records of anyone ever succeeding in killing one with a gun, so ...

Cheers

"You forgot the Drop Bears!"

LOL, and the Tasmanian tigers! You might as well ping a few great whites while you're at it...not sure if a gun would work on a box jellyfish though.

Edited by retropump on 03/17/2009 18:59:05 MDT.

What about drunken Koalas falling on you. Seriously, I was once dive-bombed from a tree by an Australian Possum (considered major pests in NZ) trying to get my pot of noodles. If I'd had a gun...! I have also watched a friend bash a possum to death with a plank of wood. Ouch. A gun would have been much more humane.

We had a Keltec 9mm years ago. Owwww!!!! That thing would give recall beyond belief.

I have a shot a number of ul revolvers - all will leave ones hands and arm tired as can be. The kick on them is pretty good. Especially the 357's made of a Ti blend.

The XD 9mm is a good choice for near light - it is semi auto. I have the carry size, not a full officer carry size. It fits smaller hands as well.

I also have a 357 revolver for certain trips - where water could be an issue.

I usually carry 2 magazines, one in, one on the side with my Kimber. I carry higher capacity ones.
Weight wise? With Safepacker somewhere around 3 lbs. I don't weigh it. The Kimber is much heavier than the others, but fits my hands perfectly and is a 45.

If I wanted to go heavy take the AR-15 ;-) But I prefer the Robinson Arms one in my photo on page 1. Way more fun.

Our family shoots together - to us it is a perfectly normal family activity. My husband made Masters a couple years ago and does competitive shooting.

Tallbloke wrote:

>Global arming? Oh noooo, the madness is spreading. ;-)

Oops! I hope not! :)

Edited by dsmontgomery on 03/17/2009 19:17:16 MDT.

> We had a Keltec 9mm years ago. Owwww!!!! That thing would give recall beyond belief.

Because of its lack of mass and it's short grip, the P32 kicks much harder than one would think also. Definitely not my choice for plinking for fun. Not to mention the fact that it will fail to clear the extracted shell if "limp wristed" at all.

Chris, 100% right on that. That is one reason why we sold it off. The husband is right on one thing - if you depend on it to protect yourself, it better work every time and be simple to use.
I couldn't hit a target right with it. The Kimber and XD I can. The mass (ie..weight) is what makes the difference.

maybe I should pass on that seeing as I'm limp-wristed.

About 5 years ago I was hiking in Mt. Rainier NP in a certain alpine area that abuts NF land.

I was sitting there, eating or something, when I see a lady ranger come running up the trail, going full speed. She was a good deal shorter than me, so maybe barely 5 ft tall. She had a 45 strapped on one side and a rifle across her chest. She had another ranger behind her - a man, who was unarmed it appeared and who looked to be about ready to fall over dead physically. The last I saw Ms. Ranger was booking a good 1/4 mile up the trail still running. To come from the trailhead she had gained over 2,000 ft of gain and she looked like she had just started - she was in perfect shape.

I still crack up over that image. Wish I had time that day to see what she was carrying. Her EBR (evil black rifle) was a big one, it dwarfed her!

OK, that memory had nothing to do with this, but :-P

Kel-tec 380; brutal recoil. But it's the only thing my wife will consistently carry, when she's stuck out in the field all night.

I have carried my Keltec 32 a few times but I really don't feel like I need to have it.

If you don't feel the need to have a gun when walking around town then you shouldn't worry about having one in the backcountry. Most criminals are too lazy to get a job let alone hike into the backcountry!

If you are worried about bears then carry bear spray. It is more affective than a gun anyway.
http://www.udap.com/bearnews.pdf

I wonder how well bear spray would work on rabid dingos, snakes, possums and other nasty Australians (not including Roger who is a very polite Australian)? Might even work on spiders!

Lynn asked:
>> what about killer crocodiles, rabid dingos and kangaroos, or nasty venemous snakes??

They don't 'carry' either.
Certainly not 'open carry' anyway.
But who knows what those rabid 'roos have concealed in their pouches.

Ah, the stuff you learn on this site. Terms like 'carry' for a start. See I always thought the term was 'packing', as in 'I'm packin' heat'. Now I'm much better educated.

I concur with what Roger C and Ken wrote above.
In my twenty plus years of bushwalking, I have never met anyone I needed (or even wanted) to kill (or even wound a bit).

However, in the spirit of helpfulness, here's an idea for all of our USA friends who feel the need to 'carry':

Hello! Lead projectiles! Soooo heavy.

I suggest replacing lead (Atomic weight of 82) with BPL's favourite metal Titanium (Atomic weight only 22).

I would like to suggest Aluminium (atomic weight a mere 13) but as we all know aluminium gives you Alzheimer's, and I want to encourage responsible shooting.

Edited by lushy on 03/19/2009 02:50:07 MDT.

"In my twenty plus years of bushwalking, I have never met anyone I needed (or even wanted) to kill (or even wound a bit).

However, in the spirit of helpfulness, here's an idea for all of our USA friends who feel the need to 'carry':

Hello! Lead projectiles! Soooo heavy.

I suggest replacing lead (Atomic weight of 82) with BPL's favourite metal Titanium (Atomic weight only 22).

I would like to suggest Aluminium (atomic weight a mere 13) but as we all know aluminium gives you Alzheimer's, and I want to encourage responsible shooting."

Freakin' hilarious, Lushy, and oh so right bloody right on!
I'm growing ever more fond of you Pohmies with each succeeding post.

"So the question is, are you a good enough marksman, who will stay highly focused in a moment of extreme crisis, to make a killing shot to a running animal before it closed from 25' in the 1.5 seconds you have?"

I'll second this line of reasoning. According to a law enforcement friend of mine, his department's doctrine holds that if an assailant with a knife charges you from 20' or less, you will not have time to draw and place a killing or disabling shot before he is upon you. And this is from professionals who practice constantly. How many of the carryers posting here can meet that standard??