Finally, a prototype that's sorta ready for a few photos :)

Don't have a release date yet. We have one more prototype cycle scheduled. We may do a small production run for July 1 delivery if there is interest, given our sorry economy which needless to say should drive us all to the mountains anyways!

Weight range 1.2-1.8 lbs, volume 46L+ (we're also working on a similar but simpler and lighter 32L+ version). Great fit, aesthetics, function, solid load carrying ability, a new and very durable silnylon fabric developed just for packs, built in a factory that specializes in packs so construction quality is superb. I'm excited about this one!

This prototype has dual daisy chains, axe/trekking pole strap, removable bivy pad, padded belt, zip pouches on the hip belt and shoulder straps (4 total), haul loop, upward-tapered (bigger at top) packbag, 42L capacity, fabrics on the "more durable" side of things, and comes in at 23 oz.







So some questions.

1. Do you guys want a hydration sleeve?

2. Keep, or skip, the shoulder strap pockets?

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, keep just the two side pockets (and replace the center pocket with a bungee system), or keep the center pocket and ditch the side pockets?

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - simplest and lightest option that preserves the max capacity of the packbag, but not weather resistant. Do you need a flap, roll-top closure, etc., or can you live with simple/light for the top?

Now the big questions: fit.

5. Do you like short torsos where the hip belt crosses your belly, or long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

6. Provide "load lifter straps" (which don't really lift the load off the shoulders) which provide some latitude in fit, or skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length, then bring the shoulder straps right over your collarbone crest?

My 2 cents!

1. No hydration sleeve

2. Skip or maybe include just 1 shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep just the two side pockets

4. flap, roll-top closure,

5. long torsos (Im 6'4" and hard to fit)

6. More pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length.

And my 2 cents...

1. No hydration sleeve
2. (indifferent re: shoulder strap pockets)
3. All 3 external pockets
4. Roll-top
5. Long torso
6. More sizes, no lifter straps

-Mark

What's the maximum suggested weight capacity?

Any kind of frame, other than a pad?

Forecasted price range?

Country of production?

1. optional hydration sleeve

2. at least one shoulder strap pocket

3. three outside pockets

4. roll-top closure.

5. not answering that one.

6. load lifters

Edited by Coldspring on 03/12/2009 19:17:41 MDT.

1. No hydration sleeve

2. Keep the shoulder strap pockets, unless it moves the price up a lot. Bigger belt pockets.

3. Keep all three pockets, make side pockets EASILY accessible for water bottles.

4. Roll-top closure,

5. Long torso

6. Load lifters. I still use those on packs that fit.

1) Yes- hydration sleeve
2) One/No shoulder pockets
3) all three external pockets
4) Roll-top with beefy enough strap to hold snowshoes or bear bucket in place
5) Long Torso
6) Load lifters if they will reduce cost

Edited by redmonk on 03/12/2009 13:08:36 MDT.

1. Do you guys want a hydration sleeve?

No

2. Keep, or skip, the shoulder strap pockets?

Skip

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, keep just the two side pockets (and replace the center pocket with a bungee system), or keep the center pocket and ditch the side pockets?

2 2 side mesh pocket + bungee

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - simplest and lightest option that preserves the max capacity of the packbag, but not weather resistant. Do you need a flap, roll-top closure, etc., or can you live with simple/light for the top?

roll top


Now the big questions: fit.

5. Do you like short torsos where the hip belt crosses your belly, or long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

long torso

6. Provide "load lifter straps" (which don't really lift the load off the shoulders) which provide some latitude in fit, or skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length, then bring the shoulder straps right over your collarbone crest?

load lifters

"you guys"? Guys??? Hmmmph. Or is this the western generic version of the southern generic y'all?

1. No hydration sleeve
2. Keep shoulder strap pockets
3. All 3 external pockets, with the back one stretchy enough to hold a wet tarptent
4. Roll-top
5. Not sure
6. More sizes, no lifter straps

Edited after reading Bob's post below. Even though this new pack sounds great, I have no plans to buy one because I really, really, really like my ULA Relay and Circuit.

Edited by rosierabbit on 03/12/2009 16:46:15 MDT.

Thanks for keeping the lightweight movement, well, MOVING!

I too am for longer torso stuff (in this and everything else in the BPL line.)

1. NO hydration sleeve.

2. NO shoulder strap pockets.

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets AND add a bungee system in the center. Hip belt pockets are a must.

4. Roll-top, roll-top, roll-top.

5. "On" the hips, like a belt.

6. I think the right design can forgo the need to use load lifter straps, but it's tough to get it right in packs designed for the masses...hence why they exist in the first place.

1. No
2. Skip
3. keep all three pockets but make the side ones smaller. They're too deep. Or make one deep and one short. I like to put a fly rod on one side and platy on the other.
4. I'm a fan of the roll top.
5. Long
6. No load lifters. More options would be nice. Especially Combos between bag/belt sizes. I use GG Large bags but Medium belts.

1. Yes
2. No
3. Keep all three mesh pockets
4. Yes..more packing options
5. Long torso
6. I like load lifters- good for big guys

2 Cents Worth

Edited by Creachen on 03/12/2009 14:23:56 MDT.

1. no hydration sleeve

2, no shoulder pockets (they get in the way)

3. 2 side plus bungee (need someplace to strap odd-sized things on; not everything fits well in pockets). I also don't like angled openings - things fall out too easily.

4. rolltop (or put grommeted holes in hte bottom of hte packbag so rain can flow out)

5. long

6. keep load lifters (if this pack will have any kind of frame to transfer weight. They're meaningless without same.)


Suggestion: I alway find it difficult and uncomfortable to reach behind me to handle a water bottle. Why not attach a removeable 1 liter water bottle holder to the hipbelt between the packbag and the hipbelt pocket? Being removeable, it could be placed on whichever side (or both or not at all) desired.

I also question the wisdom of (and any perceived need for) competing with the existing cottage industries on major items like packs. BPL already has enough problems maintaining the quantity and quality of their inventories.

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/12/2009 14:40:21 MDT.

1. Yes - Hydration sleeve
2. Skip shoulder pockets, but having them as "optional" would be a big plus.
3. Keep all three mesh pockets, though one side pocket could be "short" to accomodate item removal while wearing the pack.
4. Don't need a flap. Roll top works well. Cinch is not a deal breaker.
5. I like "real" hip belts at the iliac crest for efficient load-bearing.
6. Add more pack sizes and drop the load lifter straps.

1. NO! hydration sleeve

2. SKIP, the shoulder strap pockets.

3. Keep ALL THREE outside mesh pockets.
Make them expandable to allow stuff to go in! They look a little tight. If they are fully packed you need to be able to get a water bottle and something else on both sides. Also the front pocket need to expand to except a wet tarp, clothes, rain gear,etc.

4. ROLL-TOP, it rain in the Northwest!

Now the big questions: fit.

5. LONG TORSOS were the hip belt crosses your Iliac crest. I blown disk requires all the weight to be on the hips!

6. I think this is a tough one. It would be best to offer more pack sizes, but then you have a inventory issue. How do you plan for all the possible size options? I think this one might be a business decision? I would prefer a perfect fit!

Thanks for asking

Edited by bestbuilder on 03/12/2009 14:41:58 MDT.

1) no hydration sleeve
2) detachable shoulder strap pockets and detachable shoulder strap water bottle holder designed to mate well with this pack and sold as a separate purchases.
3) keep all three pockets. Pleat them so as to be able to handle moderately bulky items
4) roll top closure
5) long torso
6) yes, I find load lifters are useful in a frameless pack IF your keep the pack full

I consider a functional compression system to be key to keeping the pack full and rigid. Route the compression system inside the pockets

Make the hip belt pockets larger than shown.

edited

Edited by jcolten on 03/12/2009 14:43:57 MDT.

1. YES on hydration sleeve

2. Keep the shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep the two side pockets and replace the center pocket with a bungee system

4. A flap (my preference) or a roll-top

5. Short torso

6. Neutral on this one

1. No hydration sleeve

2. Skip the shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets

4. Roll-top closure

5. Long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

6. Provide "load lifter straps AND provide more pack sizes

No hydration sleeve.

Skip shoulder strap pockets (excess weight, excess cost), but include one or two tapes across the straps to hook a camera case to.

Dispense with all mesh pockets: they snag and add weight.

Simple sleeve throat of adequate length rather than roll-top (lighter), with light flap over the top. Both waterproof.

Dual daisy chains - why? better to put gear inside the pack and save the weight. But, a couple of attachment points should be provided instead.

Webbing attachments straps across at the top - yes, definitely.

Torso length - not on the belly!

Pockets on hip belt: delete. Awkward things anyhow, and usually don't hold much. Extra cost & weight as well.

Load lifter straps needed, but use light 20 mm tape rather than full webbing. (I use this light binding tape myself and it has been reliable for many years.)

If you have lots of torso lengths instead you will spend a fortune on shipping 4 sizes out and getting 3 of them back to restock.

My 2c

Cheers

So, fewer quality articles. Things always out of stock in the store. Art commissioning. Now gear manufacturing. Ryan,Can we focus!? Where are we going? And I don't want a reply from Roger.

Have it built in the USA and it'll have a cult following. Build it in Vietnam, or somewhere around there, and everyone will hate it.

Ken,

We've been in the manufacturing side since 2003, since we commissioned quilts from Nunatak and bivies from Oware.

But, yes, as for focus: we are. That's why we eliminated the print mag, we won't be doing art commissioning any more (that was a one time gig), and most recently, we have eliminated advertising completely.

Thus, BPL's focus will lie in three areas:

1. Editorial content publishing
2. Retail & OEM Gear manufacturing
3. Education services

#1 and #2 have been here since Day 1 and #3 is a logical extension of #1 for us.

These are the three areas that our community has asked us to focus on, so that is indeed where we are going.

Fewer quality articles? I'm not sure where that perception is coming from. We expanded the breadth and depth of our editorial calendar significantly since the latter part of 2008, in response to the big reader survey asking for same.

And, as for "things always out of stock in the store" - I'll concede on that one. There is some intentionality there - dumping a bunch of inventory in late 2008 to free up cash to carry our company through the lows of this recession. As a result, we're starting from very low inventory levels and are being pretty cautious about ramping it back up. But spring is here, and by April 7, we plan to have the shop pretty much fully stocked.

Anyway, the packs have been in the queue before the market tanked, so I'm only posting photos of the latest round for feedback, not promising that we are going to allocate resources away from "quality articles" or "store inventory" to bring them to market for all y'all soon. Like I said, we may do a small run just to get a few in the hands of those that have been asking for them the most.

RJ

1. No hydration sleeve

2. Skip the shoulder strap pockets -- but how about a horizontal piece of material (about an inch or two wide) placed across one (or both) of the shoulder straps that could be used to clip or otherwise attach an item or small pouch to one or both of the shoulder straps if desired?

3. Keep just the two side pockets and replace the center pocket with a bungee system (have about 4 fabric loops spaced down the each of the four vertical edges of the pack so that cord can be laced through the loops when needed, or left off when not -- in addition to allowing gear to be secured to the sides or rear of the pack, the loops with cord threaded through them would also afford a means of compression for the sides of the pack and/or across the back of the pack (doesn't look like the proto has any side or rear compression straps at present, which would be a big negative that can be solved with little weight penalty if there are a system of loops provided as described above for use with cord -- at least to lace up the entire rear panel and also compress the sides above the side mesh pockets) -- AND IF rear mesh pocket is also included, would be nice to still have about 4 loops sewn up each of the two vertical rear seams on the INSIDE of the rear pocket -- with the first ones starting from each of the rear pocket's two bottom corners and the upper loops placed at or near the top of the back panel -- so that a cord could be cross-laced through the loops to compress the back of the pack while still leaving access unimpeded into the back pocket even with the cord laced through the loops and compressing the rear of the pack (the Ark pack by MLD has this arrangement of loops inside the back pocket starting at the inside corners of the back pocket and ending up near the top -- very helpful if the need exists for compressing the pack across the back)

4. Cinch closure is good, with sufficient material to adequately cover contents even when the pack is stuffed full to overflowing -- and small waterproof flap also good

5. Long torsos with hip belt crossing iliac crest

6. Provide "load lifter straps" -- although they don't really lift the load off the shoulders, they do provide latitude in fit, and also keep the number of sizes for the pack to maybe just two (less than 20" torso and torso of 20" or more seems about standard); and please be sure to leave adequate space between top of shoulder straps to keep from pinching into neck

As for daisy chains -- my strong preference is skip 'em and save the weight, but if the daisy chains were also to be available for securing the handle of an ice ax or other item sticking up from the ice ax loop at the bottom of the pack (trek poles, for example), there would need to be some means provided for tying off the upper portion of the ice ax or poles at or near the top of the pack

A last thought -- if there is a rear pocket, pleated non-stretch mesh with plenty of "pleat" might be better than stretchy mesh -- with some means of securing/snugging the top of the pocket tight, maybe a strong elastic cord sewn into a narrow sleeve of material horizontally across the top of the rear pocket, with a toggle at the middle of the cord that could be tightened?

Oh, yes, and maybe some options for color of materials for the pack? Just kidding.

Thanks for soliciting the input!

JRS

Edited by JRScruggs on 03/13/2009 01:39:30 MDT.

Well .... why not one 46Lt pack with all the add-ons (hydration sleeve,shoulder strap pockets, mesh pockets ... etc ...) and one 33/36lts really ultralight whitout add-ons.????

1. YES i prefer one hydration sleeve ..

2. Keep ONE shoulder strap pocket

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, The main pocket is useful, and the net helps to protect the main body.

4. May be a minimun closure is a good idea but cinch closure is ok

Now the big questions: fit.

5. Please i prefer long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest? And a good useful suporting hip belt

6. I prefer more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length

Ryan,

Last year I spent several months shopping for the 'perfect' lightweight pack. I settled on a ULA Conduit for just over $100. My comments on your prototype will be referenced to my experiences with this popular ULA pack... the features and benefits I like, plus its shortcomings.

Size/weight - don't know how you are measuring, but my ULA at 50L weighs 16.9 oz without hip pockets. So far, the material of the ULA seems pretty durable.

1. Hydration sleeve - I don't consider these set-ups as lightweight. Not necessary.

2. Shoulder strap pockets - make them optional and removable. I sometimes use a couple MLD pockets with my ULA at .5 oz each and a perfect size. Still need to figure a better method to keep them from sliding. They use those plastic strap quick clips. Probably sewing the web strap to the wider fabric, about 1" below where the web is attached would work. I like to keep my camera in one, because I don't feel comfortable keeping this expensive item in a hip pocket when I remove the pack and lay it on the ground. I like the MLD Velcro closure, plus the plastic snap.

3. I like 3 mesh pockets. Especially to stuff a wet poncho in, or keep tent stakes and wind gear in. If it is tight, you aren't going to stuff a lot of stuff in them. I like to keep a water bottle in each side pocket. Your side pockets look too tall. The ULA has much smaller pockets and are angled for easy access to water bottles. Problem is a 1 liter platy will fall out of the ULA side pocket, requiring a heavier Gatoraide bottle. I am thinking about asking Brian if he can redo mine with no angle, or a higher angle. I have never seen an angled side pocket that is truly easy to access while moving anyway. For me, I usually just stop and take a water break, or just sling the pack on one shoulder, take out the bottle and drink while walking. You need to be a contortionist to grab something from a side pocket, IMO.

4. Top - roll top extension collar. More capacity if needed. I have a MLD top lid which I sometimes use with my ULA. Doesn't fit perfectly and weighs 2.5 oz, but can be useful once in a while. The top lid stays at home most of the time. An extension roll top is a versatile option.

5. Short torso... ultralight pack doesn't need to shift a lot of weight to the hips. I like the belt high. On a heavy pack, it needs to be lower.

6. Load lifter straps... extra weight and marketing hype.

Notes on #5 & #6, I am 5' 11" and it is easy for me to find a well-fitting pack. Actually I am going to remove the sternum staps on my ULA, because the should straps fit me perfect. This is the challenge, to minimize sizes and cover a large range of body shapes/sizes. It might be easier to fix our economic woes, than to devise a small product line that adapts to many sizes of torsos!!

Hip pockets - I like them. For me, hip pockets are a requirement in a pack. The ULA pockets are removeable, but a little bit of work, because you have to undo the shoulder stap buckles. They weigh about 1 oz each. I love the ULA hip pockets. They are much bigger than the ones on my Gregory 95L. Brian's hip pockets are simply wonderful.

Question - I know you need to generate sales to stay in business. You have some great products, especially the Merino Hoody, which fills a unique niche in the market place. How is your pack going to fit into the market place? How is it different that the offerings from ULA, MLD, GoLit, 6 Moons, etc? Is is just a re-hash of what is already available. Please don't take these questions as a negative... but I would like to see something new and unique. The pack isn't that light, doesn't have anything already available somewhere else. So the last benefit you might offer is price. Can you sell it for $80 or less?... Probably not. I just bring these things up, because there is a cost to product R&D, and you must assess the market before investing in production. BTW, I have found this site and your book excellent resources, so I am a BPL fan... just to set the record straight.

Good luck on whatever path you choose, and it is a nice touch to see you solicit feedback from your readers.

I recall a statement made some time ago regarding packs -

"Me, I'd be inclined to skip the pack frame attempt at dual use and store the pad in its minimal volume configuratioｎ　（ｄｅｆｌａｔｅｄ　ａｎｄ　ｒｏｌｌｅｄ　ｕｐ）　ｉｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｐａｃｋ　ａｎｄ　ｒｅｌｙ　ｏｎ　ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ 　ｅｌｓｅ　ｆｏｒ　ｐａｃｋ　ｓｔｒｕｃｔｕｒｅ ." [sic]

I don't see any mention of support in this design, so I'm wondering how this pack fits into that view.

Thanks.

Edited by greg23 on 03/13/2009 07:02:10 MDT.

1. No Hydration Sleeve

2. Keep the shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets

4. Prefer a flap, partly because it can help move the weight toward the body when cinched down.

Now the big questions: fit.

5. long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest

6. Provide "load lifter straps"

1. no

2. maybe, what can you fit in it

3. keep all mesh pockets. personally I like a beaver tail for the middle. a beaver tail with a outside mesh pocket would be great. i got to learn how to sew one of these days

4. either way

5. iliac crest? you use your tounge prettier than a twenty dollar...nevermind

6. the "load lifter straps"

also make the belt pockets bigger, on the huge side maybe. big enough for camera, maps, lunch. it looks like you can only fit a couple of snickers bars in them. i don't like taking my pack off for little things.

Edited by KG4FAM on 03/13/2009 10:52:51 MDT.

Your business plan really isn't any of my business, but is this going to fill a niche that doesn't exist, or be cheaper than existing products? It just seems to me like the UL pack market is pretty saturated.

This looks like more of the same. There are plenty of ordinary packs already being sold.

I'd like to see a series of innovative designs for various uses coming out of the community. These could be shared as plans, for anyone to use. Need production? Sell by subscription as demand warrants. This might not be profitable in itself but might have more value to the backpacking world.

I have or have had packs with elasticized mesh, expansion collars, extra pockets and pouches, zippers, daisy chains, tool loops, a fixed volume, and doodads everywhere. Having made my own packs for a few years, I've found another direction.

While I'm still a lousy sewer, what I'm making now is both practical and clean, focusing on utility and adjustability. If I had plans I'd share them, but maybe that can come later. And it's possible that what I like is uninteresting to everyone else, but it does work.

My packs vary in volume as consumables are used while remaining tight, sleek, and compact. One pack serves equally well for both short and long trips. I don't have tool loops or crampon hangers or iPod pockets or internal bladders with sucking tubes because I don't want them.

Better to have different designs for different uses, I think. I backpack and don't climb, or race, or ski, and travel light, and like simplicity, so this works. I live out of my pack on the trail, without unpacking it at every break. Everything I need is easily at hand while remaining secure.

I'm moving toward smaller pack bags with removable external storage for temporary overflow. My pockets are huge and use positive compression instead of elastic, and can expand to inhale anything, or collapse back to nothing, easily.

Try stuffing your rain wear or (better) six liters of water into those tight mesh pockets. I dare you. The usual, boring, unimaginative, stale designs make it impossible to slip in more than a hankie. And then the elastic ages into uselessness.

Yes, I think we can do better.

My question is about the pack fabric - is it 2 oz silnylon? If so, how much does it stretch? I much prefer a stiff pack material, and think a durable, 2 oz. low stretch pack fabric alone would be newsworthy.

I like the daisy chain on the back - BMW started with mountaineering packs, right?

1. If it's cheap, keep it. Very easy to cut out if not needed.

2. I think a detachable pocket, with anchors allowing tight fastening to either shoulder straps or hip belt would be best given differences in preference. I would include one of these with the pack, as I can't imagine needing more than this at your fingertips. Perhaps others could be available as options.

3. I think two side pockets made out of the dense, stretch mesh would be ideal. I find it less snag-prone than larger meshes, and the stretch keeps everything secure (a recurring theme of mine). I would replace the rear pocket with a bungee system for drying wet items. The only thing I use these pockets for are water (one pocket) and snacks/ maps (the other).
4. I prefer roll-top, for, again, the ability to keep different volumes packed tightly.
5. Longer torso - I can't stand anything across my stomach.
6. Keep the lifters - I find that they help keep the top of the pack against my back.

Gosh - now I really want to make a pack!

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:20:32 MDT.

>Time for some quick totals on responses.

You're a more industrious man than I, Bob. Thanks for meta-analysis! :)

6. Load lifters - too close to call as some "yes" votes are really "optional". (Yes = 12, No = 9)

full disclosure: I'm in the YES! column on this issue.

Having taken care of that detail, allow me to suggest that if they are included but not wanted by any purchaser, their presence can be remedied using this low cost solution or perhaps this pricier solution

@Jim

ba hahahhahahahaah

Shoulder strap pockets yes zippers no, no hydration sleeve.. I always put my bladder on top of everything inside the pack or in an outside mesh pocket. Keep all outside pockets. I like the roll top with clip fasteners. don't worry about weather but please no velcro.

Absolutely iliac crest. When I am sucking wind while humping over a tall pass I breath with not only my chest but with my belly as well. I breath much better with the hip belt lower.

Load lifters yes. I like pulling the stays in tight. For me it feels like the pack fits better and conforms more to the shape of my body. When it conforms more it has less of a chance of sliding down. Whatever Dan McHale does with this is correct. On his packs a lot of the pressure from my straps is at the front of my body at my chest relieving some of the pressure at the top of my shoulders.

Does the pack have stays?

Greatest fit variability ideas...

1. Multiple LENGTH shoulder straps. Nobody seems to make long shoulder straps. Almost every off-the-rack pack puts the buckle in my armpit.

2. Multiple size and swappable belts. Same thing as #1.

The main thing is that the "sack" is universal. Make the best sack you can and then let users put the shoulder harness and belt and pockets and do-dads and whatever they want onto that.

The most innovative packs I've ever used are both 6+ years old. The original Kelty Cloud (and later Flight) were a component-based dream that has never been matched. The most variable fit pack ever made as far as I know is the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone. I did the math once and I believe there were literally HUNDREDS of options for fit on ONE pack sack. It's the pack I still use today.

Combine the FIT options of the Nimbus Ozone, with the COMPONENT options of the Kelty Cloud series into a <2 lb. pack and I'll name my next kid "BPL" :)

1. Do you guys want a hydration sleeve?

No- But internal pad pocket sleeve could be used for hydration

2. Keep, or skip, the shoulder strap pockets?

Skip the should strap pocket, but add daisy chains.


3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, keep just the two side pockets (and replace the center pocket with a bungee system), or keep the center pocket and ditch the side pockets?

Keep all three pockets.

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - simplest and lightest option that preserves the max capacity of the packbag, but not weather resistant. Do you need a flap, roll-top closure, etc., or can you live with simple/light for the top?

Maybe a Y top compression strap like GG with an optional top flap like MLD.

Now the big questions: fit.

5. Do you like short torsos where the hip belt crosses your belly, or long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

Do not care. At less than 20 pounds the hip belt is for stability and not weight transfer.

6. Provide "load lifter straps" (which don't really lift the load off the shoulders) which provide some latitude in fit, or skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length, then bring the shoulder straps right over your collarbone crest?

No load lifters. Load lifters need a pack stay to be effective. Just added weight for very little utility.


What niche are you hoping to fill? Lightest? Cheapest? Most durable? There are a good variety of packs available from ULA, GossamerGear, Six Moon Designs, Mountain Laurel Designs and zpacks. Businesses do not like doing business with their competitors. Those owners will likely stop posting on the forums when you start to compete with them.

The Artic Pack is a good example of partnering to fill an unmet demand. What unmet need does this pack fill?

1. Absolutely not.
2. Skip.
3. Side pockets only, but what about making one side a double a la GG Mariposa/Miniposa? The bottom one being tilted forward for easy bottle access.
4. A cinch-top with a flap vs. a roll-top will probably weight about the same, so I would go with roll-top for simplicity's sake.
5. Short please. An UL pack shouldn't be loaded to the point that you need to offload the weight onto your hips.
6. More pack sizes.

My 2 cents = 0.01550628 Euros (as of 14 Mar 2009)

1. No
2. Skip
3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets
4. Cinch closure - or roll top
5. Hip belt that crosses the iliac crest
6. Provide more pack sizes to dial in fit

Of course I've just described several excellent cottage industry packs already in production.

1. No hydration sleeve.

2. Skip shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep all three outside pockets. Strap systems suck.

4. Roll-top a la Gossamer Gear or single closure strap with cinch cord (like a Jardine pack). No lid!

5. The hipbelt must cross the iliac crest to carry any weight.

6. No load lifers - they are unnecessary on all UL packs.

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:21:15 MDT.

Might as well respond too.

1. Not necessary

2. Skip them

3. Keep all three

4. Roll-top

5. I'm ok eith either here depending on how much weight it's intended to carry. Heavier wait needs to cross at crest, < 20 lbs I can carry at the waist.

6. Not necessary.

1. Hydration sleeve - yes, essential for me. A port would be nice too. Perhaps the hydration sleeve could be a clip on model that is easily removed for those that don't want it.

2. Loose the shoulder straps - hip belt pockets are roomier & can hold the same type of things (i.e. lip balm)

3. Make the 2 side pockets shorter and use cord/webbing above them to allow the sides of the pack to compress. The tall mesh pockets would be a nightmare on brushy or overgrown trail I would think. I like the back pocket to hold a wet tarp or rain gear I think. It should either be elastic or roomy enough to be useful. Perhaps an elastic bungee with cord lock at the top to make it adjustable.

4. Roll top is good.

5. Sized for the hipbelt to fit the iliac crest

6. Less sizes with lifter straps sounds good to me. I sometimes like to change around the way the pack weight carries as elevation becomes steeper.

1. No hydration sleeve
2. No shoulder strap pockets
3. All 3 external pockets
4. Roll-top
5. Long torso
6. More sizes, no lifter straps

Like others have mentioned, this is a tough market to penetrate. Unless there is something very innovative with the BPL design I'm unlikely to switch from my ULA Conduit.
Mark

1. Hydration sleeve? Oh yes or at least optional.
2. Shoulder strap pockets? Optional. Kind of thinking how ULA do their ala cart.
3. Keep all 3 mesh pockets
4. Depends. I have a Granite Gear pack and love the roll top. But would be ok with a cinch style
5. Long torso
6. Yes on the load lifters.

Great idea Ryan!

1. No Hydration sleeve
2. No shoulder pockets
3. Keep all the mesh pockets
4. Roll top. Although I do really like a cinch with a flap.
5. Short torso
6. No load lifters.

Some additional thoughts:

I like to shoulder most of the weight so some wide straps are nice. Like 3in plus. Breathable foam a must.

Put the should strap adjustment piece down at the bottom like they do on the osprey packs. Very ergonomical that way.

> I also question the wisdom of (and any perceived need for) competing with the existing cottage industries on major items like packs. BPL already has enough problems maintaining the quantity and quality of their inventories.

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/12/2009 14:40:21 MDT.

Perhaps begging Ryan's original question, but I agree with wandering_bob 100% on this one.

Looks like a nice pack though.

So this may not be in the realm of possibilities for BPL but it seems that everyone wants something slightly different... so why not start with a basic pack and then have options available for extra, similar to what zpacks does. i know this would increase the price, but for some it might be worth it to get exactly what they want. or have maybe a few pre-set pack designs available with different combinations of features... that way it would be more like having a custom pack, but fewer hassle for the makers and a lower price than there would be if they allowed everyone to pick exactly what they want.

i would say for me in general though
1. no bladder sleeve
2. optional add on like most others do
3. all 3 pockets
4. cinch with cover flap or roll-top
5. long torso
6. load lifters.


bottom line: you can't really beat a lot of current packs and companies on quality, customizeabiity, or attention to detail... so make the packs cheaper or do something different if you want this to work.

Edited by derekcox on 03/15/2009 16:15:38 MDT.

My humble opinion/ vote.

1. No hydration sleeve.

2. Skip the shoulder strap pockets.

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets.

4. Roll-top closure.

5. Long torsos.

6. Skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length.

Although unwanted pockets and straps can be removed with scissors, I would prefer to see a pack that is completely modular. Have lots of attachment points that the user can add external pockets etc...if they want them, or leave them off if not needed. For instance, I agree with Roger that outside pockets, especially mesh ones, are a poor design for any off-trail use. But it would be nice to have the option of adding either mesh or non-mesh pockets if desired. Likewise with shoulder and hipbelt pockets.

No hydration sleeve

Don't care about closure

Long torso for sure

Yes to load-lifters

Yes to internal support/stays (not sure if hat's part of the design or not).

All that being said, I still wouldn't buy one. And watch out for feature creep. At 1.8lb, you are getting dangerously close to the weight of an Exos 46 which has far more features, better support, better airflow across the back and a lot more pockets!

1) no hydration sleeve

2) No shoulder pockets

3) all three external pockets

4) Roll-top

5) Long torso

6) no load lifters

I am a pretty big fan of BPL branded products, but I am not sure that I would buy one of these. To me the GG Gorilla is looking like perfection, and pretty close to your target specs, so I would probably get one from Glen.

I am in full agreement with several others. The cottage pack industry has matured to the point of highly refined products that are satisfying most readily identifiable niches. I don't see anything unique about the BPL design (yet).

But the BPL name has a pretty good reputation, so I can imagine that you will leverage some market share from folks who just think it would be cool to have a BPL pack. Hopefully not at the expense of any of your cottage brethren.

But I can't resist contributing to the voting, so here are my opinions:

1. No hydration sleeve.

2. Shoulder strap pockets would need to bellowed or similar to accept sunglasses, an eTrex GPS, a pocket camera, or similar sized item and have be stretchy material to be useful. If they can't get there, delete them (have to be high cost/volume item anyway).

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, but square and lower the side pockets. They are too high to "draw" a water bottle from without removing the pack anyway. Middle pocket needed for wet gear like tarp or poncho. A lacing system would be okay, but I prefer static cord to bungee.

4. Roll-top, roll-top, roll-top.

5. Long torsos (iliac crest).

6. No load lifters without stays.

Other thoughts (mostly for cost containment):

Make the waist belt webbing extra long and let users trim excess to fit (one size trims to fit all).

Could keep the pack bag the same size for all and adjust where shoulder straps attach to it. S, M, and L torso lengths provide decent fit for most users. M and L cover most men.

Daisy chains add flexibility but detract from looks. Most summer packers probably only use exterior tie ons for closed cell pads. If used for snowshoes, crampons, or tents, I wonder if this would really be the pack of choice.

Would be very helpful to know what the suspension system might be. Pad, frame sheet, stays (curved or straight). This affects other decisions.

Edited by jbrinkmanboi on 03/15/2009 23:10:08 MDT.

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:21:59 MDT.

1. yes, hydration sleeve

2. No, no shoulder pockets

3. Yes, keep all three outside mesh pockets

4. Roll top with flap

5. Please include long torso

6. Please include load lifter straps

lookin' good..

1. No hydration sleeve

2. no shoulder strap pockets

3. Keep just the two side pockets

4. strap for roll-top. (don't make taller, just a strap on top)

5. see #6

6. more sizes to dial-in fit

1. No
2. One or option
3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets
4. Roll top
5. Hip belt that crosses the iliac crest
6. Load lifters don't. More pack sizes to dial in fit

-Mark

1. YES

2. KEEP ONE (LEFT PREFERRED)

3. KEEP ALL THREE.

4. SOMETHING WEATHER RESISTANT.

5. ILIAC CREST FOR SHORT PEOPLE TOO! SO PERHAPS SIZE OPTIONS. (5'4") BELT CUSHION SHOULD BE LONG ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY COVER ILIAC CREST.

6. MORE PACK SIZES.

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:22:43 MDT.

1. Do you guys want a hydration sleeve?
No

2. Keep, or skip, the shoulder strap pockets?

Skip--the hip belt pockets are enough

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, keep just the two side pockets (and replace the center pocket with a bungee system), or keep the center pocket and ditch the side pockets?

Keep all three. Maybe split one of the side pockets into 2--one above the other like a Mariposa Plus.

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - simplest and lightest option that preserves the max capacity of the packbag, but not weather resistant. Do you need a flap, roll-top closure, etc., or can you live with simple/light for the top?

I'd like to see a roll top closure.


6. Provide "load lifter straps" (which don't really lift the load off the shoulders) which provide some latitude in fit, or skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length, then bring the shoulder straps right over your collarbone crest?

I'd rather not have load lifter straps.

1. Do you guys want a hydration sleeve?

Yes... I see why the UL people don't want it, but I like it. I can live without it though.

2. Keep, or skip, the shoulder strap pockets?

SKIP, hipbelt pockets are enough.

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets, keep just the two side pockets (and replace the center pocket with a bungee system), or keep the center pocket and ditch the side pockets?

Ditch the center pocket, replace with bungee.

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - simplest and lightest option that preserves the max capacity of the packbag, but not weather resistant. Do you need a flap, roll-top closure, etc., or can you live with simple/light for the top?

Roll top is nice.

5. Do you like short torsos where the hip belt crosses your belly, or long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

Should be on the iliac crest. I'd hate to see the small sizes too long, though.

6. Provide "load lifter straps" (which don't really lift the load off the shoulders) which provide some latitude in fit, or skip'em and provide more pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length, then bring the shoulder straps right over your collarbone crest?

I like load lifters because they allow me to switch up how the weight is carried. So yes, please.

I also hope your pack sizes will cater to female sizes as well as male.

*Another not quite UL thing I like... which I'm sure will be decried as unnecessary... is side compression straps.

In response to what Mark Bishop said, what kind of feature set and price would it take to get everyone here to give up the pack they use now? Or would anyone give up their current pack? And why can't hydration sleeves be made out of mesh, or have a 1/4 length sleeve at the bottom, and a hanger at the top to save weight? (not that I use one)

I'm also surprised none of the CA/PCT guys asked for specific volumes or attachements to hold a bear canister (not the daisy chain, which seems superflous).

Edited by skinewmexico on 03/18/2009 10:12:06 MDT.

1. No hydration sleeve

2. Skip the shoulder pockets - there are aftermarket pockets that offer more flexibility as well as it could interfere with those of us who put water bottles there.

3. Keep the other pockets

4. flap or roll-top closure

5. Torso length

6. Load lifters (you'll have some people who no matter what, your pack won't fit otherwise and they add minimal cost/weight).

1. Not if on the outside. I like my water inside and close to my back.

2. No shoulder strap pockets-I'll add them if I need them.

3. Side pockets look to go too high. Need to be easier to get a water bottle out of without taking off the pack. I prefer bungie over the back pocket.

4. Roll-top.

5. Long torso.

6. I like load lifters. I like to move the pack around a little for different conditions.

"In response to what Mark Bishop said, what kind of feature set and price would it take to get everyone here to give up the pack they use now? Or would anyone give up their current pack? And why can't hydration sleeves be made out of mesh, or have a 1/4 length sleeve at the bottom, and a hanger at the top to save weight? (not that I use one)

I'm also surprised none of the CA/PCT guys asked for specific volumes or attachements to hold a bear canister (not the daisy chain, which seems superflous)."

I threw out $80 early on. The GG Murmur at 36L is selling for $80, and is looks similar to the BPL prototype.

Mesh pocket for hydration is an option. But still extra weight. I use one on my main day pack, but not for longer trips.

It sounds like few are willing to give up their present pack, because this one has no 'new and improved' features. Probably would only appeal to someone who is moving to UL.

Those who hike CA/PCT already have a bear system, and may not be looking for a new pack. A lot of us are hoping/praying the Ursak gets approval. This is more important than a new pack. :)

My thoughts on your excellent pack endeavor:

1. No hydration sleeve.
2. No shoulder strap pockets.
3. Two outside pockets, sized for bear cannister / tent poles.
4. Flap closure at the top for weather resistance.
5. I like the hip belt to hit my iliac crest.
6. I think having a variety of pack sizes is best.

Also, I think there is a market for a light 32L back country ski pack. The only features it needs are an outside sleeve for a probe / shovel handle, and a pocket for a shovel blade. I'd buy one!

Just Make the "Right" Blend of a Breeze and Gossamer Gear Pack and You'll Do Fine

The original Golite Breeze should be the starting point for all lightweight packs. Add more, subtract something, only if you dare! Gossamer Gear got that mostly right, and mostly aimed at upsizing the Breeze, giving it some suspension, while using some fragile but light materials. My early Glen Pleski (spelling?) pack, predecessor to Gossamer Gear, got traded away, but my Breezes are "hold forever" packs.

Based on my experience, the two most important things to add to the Breeze are a sternum strap and simple webbing waist belt. Golite almost, but not quite, nailed the concept with the Jam - but maybe Jardine had design rights to the Breeze that forced Golite to tinker with the Jam and the result was less stellar than the Breeze.

Be sure to use good material. I am not sure silnylon is it - I had the Dawn pack from Golite - it seems sturdy for most uses, but I liked the Dyneema in the Breeze. The one thing I DO like about silnylon is its intrinsic, long lasting water repellency/resistance.

I don't like the "sleeping pad" flaps in the Pleski/Gossamer Designs. Seems brilliant at first, but I keep coming back to burrito rolling the pad and packing my other gear in it. So sizing the body of your new bag to work with a burrito rolled sleeping pad might be a good idea...

Finally, no water bladder pocket. The side pockets are ample for water. I don't like water systems that keep the water out of sight so you don't know how much is left, or put the bottle against my back. I just use large Platy bottles with spout caps in the side mesh pockets....

Other than that I, like many others, wait to see what you come up with. I a sure it will add some new design focus to this niche!

P.S. - come out with a "carry-on" luggage adaptation. Travel luggage is too heavy and over-designed!

1. ...hydration sleeve?
No.

2. ...shoulder strap pockets?
No. I bungee my water bottle there. (keep the hip pockets though)

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets,...
Keep all. Tent in the big one, spare water or sundries in the sides.

4. Proto above has a cinch closure - ...
Flap. I think it does the deed and is much simpler to use than the roll top.

5. ...long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?
Long.

6. Provide "load lifter straps" ...or more pack sizes ...?

Some method of accomodating different torso lengths and carry styles is important- otherwise you need 1" size increments = about 8 different sizes, and can expect lots of returns. Tim Marshall made a pack for my 6 year old with load lifters which seem to do a good job in making it adjustable. I suggest 3 sizes for gross tuning and load lifters for fine tuning. Otherwise adjustable attachments like SMD's ladder system.

Just a thought but I think this feedback would have been easier to compile if it were done in a survey or a poll format rather than open posts. You could have done a survey with your predefined answers, yet still allow for open-ended responses by including comment boxes. After all, you KNOW this thread is going to get huge! ;)

It would have been interesting to see the results in real time with a bar graph rather than someone manually calculating them IMHO.

Edited by jasonklass on 03/18/2009 19:03:29 MDT.

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:23:23 MDT.

Bob,

Very nice work. Also to the previous poster, yes it would have been nice to do a poll, but Ryan J started the thread, and we would have ended up with two threads.

BTW, Bob if you hide the gridlines (Tools, Options, View, Uncheck Gridlines) only the charts will show up on in the pictures.

I just started a companion thread in "The G Spot" to brainstorm other gear that needs developing (besides a "BPL LW Pack 2009"). The best (profitable)ideas may then be made available by BPL or some other cottage maker. What can't we readily get, the way we'd really like it.

Thanks, but I did it that way deliberately, Nick. That's a .jpg screen capture of the Excel sheet so folks could see the data table. Maybe next time I'll rotate it 90° to make it easier to read.

I didn't feel like re-doing my summary post foremat.

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/18/2009 21:27:38 MDT.

1. Hydration sleeve

2. Skip or maybe include just 1 shoulder strap pockets

3. Two side pockets

4. flap, roll-top closure,

5. long torso

6. More pack sizes to dial in fit to your torso length.

and I share the comment about focus. Many items are often out of stock.

built in a factory that specializes in packs so construction quality is superb

Any chance we can find out where it will be manufactured?

1. Skip the hydration sleeve.
2. Keep the hip pockets, but ditch the shoulder strap pockets. Those D-rings are handy to attach smaller items, but pockets are cumbersome and superfluous.
3. Keep the pockets. The side pockets are good for Platy's and the like. The back is good to stuff a wet tarp in to dry without worrying about it slipping out of the bungees after getting snagged by a branch. Just make sure the mesh is sturdy enough and not TOO billowy. Besides, if you keep those daisy chains, anyone who wants can always add a bungee rack to the pack using them.
4. Keep the cinch closure. Personally, I like one small cinch strap for the top as well.
5. Make it a long torso. I know we're carrying relatively light loads, but transferring the weight of a fully loaded pack to the hips makes sense.
6. Ditch the load-lifters and make the various sizes.

!)No hydration sleeve
2)shoulder pockets: 1-2 large enough for small camera/binos(measure 4X3X2)(since you asked)(And waterproof:)
3)My only experience w/belt pockets is that they bulge and interfere with normal arm swinging, So I sent them back. If you can figure that out,I'd like them.
4)roll top that can close way down if your pack is not full
5)load lifters and sternum strap (or I can make my own)
6)Iam female w/ shorter torso but definitely wear my pack on my hips
7) Also don't care about the daisy chain but a couple of attaching places would be good
8)3 pockets but shorted on the sides

Edited by rebtrea on 03/19/2009 20:16:38 MDT.

see page 5 summary

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 22:24:04 MDT.

Yes, on Hydration sleeve

No, on strap pockets

Yes, on Hip belt pockets

Yes, on load lifters

I require the hip belt to ride on the hips, not around the belly.

Edited by grinder on 03/23/2009 14:38:57 MDT.

Hello Everyone,

First, thanks for your overwhelming feedback.

Second, I hope the rest of the cottage industry is listening. A lot of this stuff could be incorporated as well into their packs and I hope this forum lifts up the industry with the communications here.

Third, we have a design meeting on Wednesday where we'll be discussing this forum thread, and the issue of this particular pack's uniqueness, in the context of the new pack.

We'll keep you posted, and THANK YOU. This helps us a LOT by not allowing us to waste our time doing things we shouldn't be doing.

Best,
Ryan

1. No need for a hydration sleeve, but it others WILL want it.


2. Skip the shoulder strap pockets.

3. Keep all three outside mesh pockets. People love 'em.

4. Just a cord lock cinch closure is plenty. A single fastex buckle over the top fro extra scrunching is recommended by me.

Now the big questions: fit.

5. I like long torsos where the hip belt crosses your iliac crest?

6. Skip "load lifter straps" - if the pack is light, no need.

1) No hydration sleeve, I put all my water outside the pack;
2)No shoulder strap pockets, try to eliminate zippers on the hip-belt pockets
3)Keep the outside pockets, all my wet stuff goes outside, tent included;
4)Cinch top is ok if there is some way to "shorten" the height of the pack, otherwise roll top closure, Add two loops above the lifter straps so something bulky can be tied to the top (like extra food for longer un-supplied trips);
5)Adjustable straps if possible, similar to Six Moons designs;
6)Keep the load lifters.

The pack looks big. Any way to roll the top down further?

through Jim Cowdery

Edited by wandering_bob on 03/24/2009 17:50:56 MDT.

Is there any news from the BPL skunk works about the BPL LW Pack? Any new rumors?

The two prototype packs are currently at the designers having the next round of tweaks made to them.

I'm likely the odd one out but I would prefer to see BPL support the existing UL cottage industry, companies such as gossamer gear, ULA, Six Moon Designs and others, without competing against them.

I feel BPL is better served in providing gear reviews and such. I believe BPL should work with these companies and not against them in an effort to strengthen the UL community including BPL.

Again this is strictly a IMHO comment.

Not really, Thom.

I could not agree with you more.

Competition breeds creativity. Or something.

Chris,
I agree that competion is good. ULA, gossamer gear, SMD, MLD and others all make UL packs, competion breeds innovation and excellance. BPL should be a forum of reviewing this gear not competing with it, again just my opinion.

If BPL does produce this pack it will be interesting to read the gear review of their own product.

I'm totally supportive of BPL developing gear, packs or otherwise. It's a natural extension of their expertise. I want experts making my gear, not just talking/writing about it (also the reason I own a lot of GG, ULA, etc). Ultimately BPL's review of their own product won't be the determinant of the product's success, but its acceptance (or lack thereof) in the marketplace that counts.

Bring it on, there's plenty of room for innovation in an industry still so young. IMHO

I don't recall BPL ever reviewing one of their own products. I think it's their policy.

When BPL produces a pack they can not review their own product, but they also can not review competing products.

The question is whether you want just another of many packs or a good source of impartial credible reviews.

It is a bad business decision to compete with the established guys (Henry, Ron, Ron, etc.) I agree that competition is good, but there needs to be a neutral site where all the competitors can gather.

Richard,

AFAIK the policy is not to review anything sold by BPL. This made for some odd situations like a canister stove review a while back (well, years, actually) where the Vargo Jet-Ti was excluded from a canister stove roundup for this reason, though you could tell from the product descriptions and stats that it probably would have won. I understand and applaud them for being so rigorous in preventing bias, even though I personally trust the reviewers to not intentionally skew things.

I'm pretty sure the policy does not extend to excluding reviews of competing products, otherwise, given that BPL sells at least one item in almost every category of gear, they wouldn't have much to review! (shoes I suppose).

Don't worry about this pack. If it ever does come out, it will be out of stock... No need for BPL to produce gear, anymore.

"Don't worry about this pack. If it ever does come out, it will be out of stock... No need for BPL to produce gear, anymore."

Not to mention that it will cost about twice as much as the competitors.

I haven't found any packs out there that I really like, so I hope it offers something different.

It's been awhile since I've heard/read any new information about this pack....anyone have any information about the feature set this pack will contain or possible release/availability date?
If they take into account and included the recommendations forum members in the final design, this pack if it ever comes to light, looks to hold great promise.

Christopher

The pack is still in design and all the feedback we received from users has been taken into consideration. And contrary to a few of the negatively biased posters previous, it will be as readily available and as competitively priced as our friends in the cottage gear industry.

....for the 2010 backpacking season I hope?

Definitely one to wait for! Thanks for the update Sam.

Just out of curiosity, are there new bivy sacks on the horizon as well?

I want to be able to comment on all these new products but can't because we are trying to balance these expensive endeavors with the waning economy. As you can imagine, doing runs of a custom product is very expensive, and with sales down in not only the outdoor industry, but most all industries as well it means we need to pick and choose which product(s) we will bring to market in 2010.

Stay tuned to these forums, our Twitter feed, our Facebook page, and our RSS feed for all the latest information.

Ryan posted a photo of the latest prototype in his article 24: Fall Equinox in the Hyalite Cirque of Montana's Gallatin Mountains today.

Well its not frameless so certainly not UL - more traditional.....;) (just pulling your leg Sam)

Any hints on when this pack might be released?

I believe the latest prototype is being tested now. I'm also pretty sure any tweaks from this one will be in the production model.