UL hommock camping
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Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Hammock suspension on 01/07/2006 15:54:13 MST Print View

well this worked all day today, I took a couple naps, and it shows no signs of wear, I may be crazy, but I cut the black cord you see in the picture off right before it reaches the knott that keeps the hammock together, my hammock now weighs 13.4oz. I have decided to get the ultralight travel hammock an try modifying it similarly, dose anyone have a travel hammock and see any reason this may not work? if so I would apreciate hearing from you, thanks.

I also found the perfect knot for tying around the end of the hammock, it holds very well and is easy to tie and even easier to undo.

try to follow the pictures, the battery on my camera was almost out so there was no flash, luckily the cord is bright yellow.

first, take the end of the rope not connected to the tree and wrap it around the end of the hammock and feed it through the hole it makes, dont tighten it yet
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

then wrap around the back of the cord like this

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

and then feed it through that space leving a loop so when you take the hammock down you just pull the end of the cord and the knot is undone
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

this knot works, and is easy to undo, I like it. I dont know if this has been done before, but I did come up with it myself :-)

and try to tighten it as much as you can before getting into the hammock, or the knot wont be secure and may uno itself, just pull tightly a few times and you are good to go

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 17:45:50 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock Modifacations on 01/07/2006 17:37:15 MST Print View

I have modified my hammock down to 13.4oz, I removed compression straps on the stuff sack, removed the carabeeners and extra cord at the ends.

the only other way I can think of lightening is by removing the stuff sack and using my small OR helium stuff sack, but I havent yet, and I dont know if I will.

I cant wait to get an ultralight travel hammock and do the same stuff, this will bring it down under 7oz I expect.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 10:13:47 MST Print View

Ryan,
1) Be careful when testing your brainstorms. You may weigh 110 soaking wet, but if you fall far, you'll bust your butt. Necks have been broken. So hang the hammock just above the ground or put a thick pad (4 inches or more) under it when you first try a new rig. Remember your physics: energy increases with the square of the velocity, and the velocity increases at 32 feet per second per second of fall. Erk! Ergo, higher hurts more. (Ergo-erg, bad physics joke.)

2) Be careful with unfamiliar rope. Small diameter Spectra line is very slippery and can slip out of a knot. It requires complex knots with lots of friction. See "sudden death" above.

3) The knot on the end of the hammock does not have to be undone except for modifications - never once you get it right. However the Speer rig with a knot in the hammock and a loop in the line is the best of all possible worlds: secure and easily untied. Ever the contrarian, I use a double sheet bent instead because it is more compact and elegant. Anyway, the point is,a slip knot is not useful. On the other hand, it is likely to loosen and drop you like a hangman.

4) Save the easily untied knots for the free end - the one that goes on the tree. And be careful there, too. The lineman's knot or rigger's knot - the so-called Hennessey knot - will not jamb, so it will always untie easily. Jambing is the second biggest problem with hammock knots. (The first one is coming undone unexpectedly.) The lineman's knot is especially useful with small diameter, high modulus line such as Spectra or Dyneema. It is also best for slippery lines, such as small Spectra and Dyneema. Funny how that works out. The same caution applies with the tree knot. Screw up and you will hit the ground. Hard. No joke.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 14:21:02 MST Print View

thanks Vick, this knot works great for the rope I am using, but if I get a new cord I will be careful testing with it like you said.

I modified my hammock further today, I untied the black cord on each end holding the hammock together and cut off a few inches from one side, I did not have to sew anything because I cut at the seam of one of the side colors, if you look at the picture on the eagles nest website, just picture it like it is, but missing one of the colored sides. and also, instead of replacing the cord at the ends, I just tied a knot in the fabric at each end. it is a little shorter, but still longer than I need at 8.5 ft., and will probably fit better under my tarp. it is still wider than I need, I could cut off the other side color and it would be about perfect, but I am afraid it would not work with an underquilt because it is too small, what do you think.

Edited by ryanf on 01/08/2006 14:25:31 MST.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 16:08:59 MST Print View

Wide is good. It lets you sleep almost flat in the diagonal, Central American style. That may not seem important now, but on the trail, when your knees are aching and your back wants to spaz out, you will be grateful. The underquilt will work regardless. Don't worry about that. If it comes over the side a little, no problem.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 16:48:44 MST Print View

Thanks Vick,
the hammock I have been modifying is still larger than I think it needs to be, even when sleeping diagonal, but I will leave it the width it is.

I took off the attached stuff sack, and I am now using an OR helium stuff sack, now, including the stuff sack, the hammock weighs 9.9oz, that is almost half of the origionl weight of 18.8oz, I will probably stop modifying, but replace with a nano stuff when they are available. my next project is a silk hammock.

Edited by ryanf on 01/08/2006 16:50:54 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/22/2006 13:07:58 MST Print View

I spent the last two nights outside in my hammock, with temps down to 15F the first night and below 10F the second night. Here's the gear:

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Weather Shield bottom cover (9.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
Stansport Emergency ("space") Blanket (optional) (2.1 oz)
GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8" pad (optional) (2.5 oz)
BMW TorsoLite pad (optional) (10.2 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small) (0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz) or Halflinger felted wool slippers (size 12: 14.2 oz)
REI Performance liner gloves (L: 1.3 oz)

The first night I put the space blanket over the Nest, and I had the ThinLight pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until 5am, when a chill down my back woke me up and kept me from going back to sleep. I put the ThinLight pad underneath me and slept soundly until 7am. However, it's hard to move around with a pad underneath, so I didn't position myself properly in the hammock. From 5am to 7am my left heel pressed against an uncovered part of the hammock and compressed the sock, bootie and quilt. When I got up at 7am I had symptoms of frostbite in my heel. There was a 10-15mph breeze during the night, and no condensation on the inside of the hammock.

During the day, I had my wife check the fit of the undercover while I was in the hammock, and it turned out there was about a 6" gap between the hammock and the under quilt (which explains my cold back!). She removed the space blanket and properly adjusted the Nest and Weather Shield for me.

The second night I wanted to be sure that I didn't get frostbite, so I switched from down booties to felted wool slippers, which don't compress (too heavy to carry, though). This night I had the TorsoLite pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until I woke at 5am. Although I was still warm enough at this point, I decided to put the TorsoLite pad underneath me to see how much difference it made. I slept comfortably until 7am and awoke with warm feet. There was a 5mph breeze during the night, and a very thin layer of frozen condensation rimed the inside of the hammock. My sports drink, suspended about 12" above my face, was frozen solid by 5am.

This is the first time I've used an under quilt with the hammock. On previous outings I've used nothing (a big mistake at 27F) and combinations of a space blanket, Coleman 3/8" closed-cell foam pad, GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8" pad and Therm-A-Rest Z-Rest torso-length pad at temperatures between 35-50F. The under quilt is certainly much easier to use; I've twice flipped the hammock over completely while trying to reposition pads, and it is a credit to Hennessy's construction quality that I didn't tear through the netting. None of my previous pad arrangements felt warm enough at near-freezing temperatures, so the Jacks R Better Nest is clearly a better cold-weather solution. The ThinLight pad is quite warm (I'm hoping that GossamerGear will offer an over-sized 3/8" ThinLight pad) and the TorsoLite was easy to slip onto during the night, so I think it should be possible to use these to extend this sleeping system to even lower temperatures. I would likely carry both of these pads on a winter trip in case I choose to 'go to ground' or build a snow cave.

The space blanket wasn't necessary, although I would probably carry it on a winter trip. I'm still not sure how much benefit it offers, either as a vapor barrier to protect the down under quilt or as a radiant heat reflector. It is thin and flexible so it probably doesn't cause much compression of the Nest under quilt or prevent it from closely hugging the hammock. I'm not sure how much the Weather Shield affected the performance of the under-layer since I haven't yet used the Nest without it. I plan to try the Weather Shield with just the ThinLight pad inside during warmer weather.

I'm glad I had the Hennessy Over Cover. I don't think it was very humid inside the hammock with it in place, as there was no or very little condensation. It did raise the inside temperature, as I have previously experienced the pleasure of a sub-freezing breeze blowing under the fly and through the netting, and I didn't miss that a bit. I have a Hennessy SuperShelter on order and I hope to test that soon.

The Ray-Way quilt worked great. It's a pain getting into and out of a sleeping bag in a hammock; I much prefer the quilt. My top-side stayed warm all night and I haven't yet found its low temperature limit (it's killer hot at 50F). Likewise, the Ray-Way Bomber Hat kept me warm when my REI Squall hat (300-weight fleece and nylon flap cap) wasn't cutting it. Both the quilt and hat are insulated with Polarguard 3D.

This was a first test for my new MicroPuff and Cocoon insulating layer and they kept me warm both outside and in the hammock. These three layers of clothing, with the addition of a shell layer, would be the clothing carried for winter day use so there is no extra weight penalty.

Edited by Otter on 02/17/2006 10:31:22 MST.


(Anonymous)
loft? on 01/23/2006 11:36:45 MST Print View

Great post! Thanks for typing all of that!

Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation. I'm in the middle of designing my sleep system and will be making a lot of the pieces. I'm having trouble settling on the loft for each of the components. Your info will help a lot!

-jamie

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: loft? on 01/23/2006 13:00:07 MST Print View

> Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation.


As best I can measure, the loft is:

Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (2.5")
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (2.5")

Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (0.5")
BMW Cocoon pants (1.0") (wow!)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (0.75")
BPL PossumDown socks (0.25")
Eddie Bauer down booties (0.5")


I edited my previous message to include size, since some of these items may appear to weigh a bit more than the manufacturer's claims, which are usually for smaller sizes than mine.


(Anonymous)
Thank you! on 01/23/2006 13:22:55 MST Print View

That info is perfect! I have been trying to decide how thick to make my quilt and underquilt. Sounds like 2.5" plus modest clothes will work fine for above 20F degrees.

By the way, thanks for mentioning that the quilt is "killer hot" at 50F. I'm trying to find that sweet spot for my quilt that will be warm, yet usuable for most of three seasons. I think I'm leaning toward 2" loft for the quilt. I can wear clothes as needed, including a go-lite down jacket and down pants (as soon as I make those!).

I'll probably make my underquilt a full 2.5" since that is less likely to overheat me. (And I can let it hang further away from the bottom if absolutely needed.)

Thanks again!

Just off hand... The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting... I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+" of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?

In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!

-jamie

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Thank you! on 01/23/2006 13:39:31 MST Print View

> The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting... I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+" of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?


You probably would get close to 3" of loft for 24 oz. in a down quilt (as in the Jacks R Better Old Rag Mtn). My Ray-Way quilt has about the same surface area as the Nest, but is made with three layers of 0.75" Polarguard 3D. It doesn't appear to have lost any loft. I wanted to make my own, but I'm not going to mess with down!

I'm thinking of making another Ray-Way quilt with two layers of 0.75" Polarguard 3D for summer use. I think that would be sufficient for temps down to the mid-30's.


>In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!


It is. The sleep system weighs almost 7 pounds, but the hammock sure is comfortable and versatile.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 2 on 02/17/2006 12:19:05 MST Print View

Another cold night out in the hammock, this time at -2F. The rest of my Hennessy SuperShelter arrived, so I combined that with the JRB Nest under quilt, since the temperature was well below what I thought the SuperShelter could handle on its own.

I slept warm all night long.

Here is the gear list. It's close to what I used last time, but I thought it would be simpler to post a complete list rather than a bunch of additions and subtractions.

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderCover (9.8 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderPad (10.7 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Novara Thermal Tech Skullcap (1.1 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)

BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz)
Seirus Super Liner gloves (S/M: 1.1 oz)

This night was about ten degrees (F) cooler than the previous test, so for clothing I switched to a slightly loftier fleece shirt (which I've used, along with the compression tee, for snowshoeing in windy -5F conditions) and added a skullcap.

I wasn't able to check how closely the HH UnderCover fit with somebody in the hammock, but I think it was fairly close with both the JRB Nest and HH UnderPad inside. It's possible the JRB Nest was a bit compressed. I put the JRB Nest next to the hammock, followed by the HH UnderPad (3/4" open-cell foam dimple-cut on one side to 1/4"), then the HH UnderCover. Since the hammock was fairly well enclosed, I had some condensation frosting the mesh in the morning. Not very much; I knocked off what I could and collected maybe a tablespoon of water when melted. There was also moisture between the UnderPad and the UnderCover. It's possible this moisture fell off the fly during the night and collected in the UnderCover, but I think it's more likely, since the UnderCover is made of silnylon, that it condensed during the night because the moisture couldn't escape. I didn't notice any condensation between the JRB Nest and the JRB Weather Shield bottom in the previous tests, probably because the Weather Shield material is breathable. There wasn't a whole lot of moisture collected inside the UnderCover, but I'll probably continue to position the UnderPad outside the JRB Nest so the condensation doesn't collect in the down (the JRB Nest and the hammock-side of the UnderPad both felt dry).

The sleep system weight is 119 oz, or almost 7 1/2 pounds. I'd trust this setup to go another ten degrees (F) colder without change. If I have to make changes to handle even colder weather, I'll add another HH UnderPad on top of the JRB Nest (or replace the JRB Nest with the thicker JRB "Old Rag Mtn" down quilt) and maybe add a JRB Weather Shield top cover over the Ray-Way quilt.

Edited by Otter on 02/17/2006 12:35:42 MST.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Thank you! on 02/17/2006 16:48:11 MST Print View

Douglas,
"I wanted to make my own, but I'm not going to mess with down! "
Do it, man. Check the Thruhiker site for easy to follow directions. It might take a little longer to make a down shell with baffels, but not that much longer compared to the time to point-quilt a poly quilt.

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/18/2006 09:11:57 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :) Looking back over my post it seems I am looking for a review of the SuperShelter.

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/22/2006 11:53:58 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :). I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.

Edited by ericnoble on 02/22/2006 12:17:43 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/22/2006 19:56:09 MST Print View

> Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover?


Yes, and also possibly the Nest between the hammock and the UnderPad, since the UnderPad has its own tensioning cords. Next time I set it up I will test whether either or both of these configurations stay sufficiently close to the hammock bottom. The Underpad is 4" shorter than the Nest and 11" narrower at the middle. The ends are tapered, more so at the foot than the shoulders, but probably no more tapered than the Nest with its cords pulled.

My reason for using the UnderCover is to protect the Nest/UnderPad from exposure to precipitation. The UnderPad, although it is open-cell foam, doesn't appear to be very absorbent (the condensation that I found on it just beaded up) so perhaps it might be sufficiently weatherproof on its own. The Nest has DWR treatment, but I'm hesitant to expose a down quilt to blowing snow or rain even if it isn't critical-path for survival (if it got soaked I could go to ground, assuming I was also carrying a groundsheet and winter pads).

I do not know how much warmth is held in by the UnderCover, although I suspect it is probably in the 5-10F range usually claimed for bivies.


> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does?


Mostly. I have staked the tarp down tight against the hammock in 25-30F weather (when I had nothing more than the hammock and a down sleeping bag--brrr!) and it did make it warmer inside (compared to the first night, when I staked the tarp out wide) with some condensation (frost) on the tarp in the morning. It didn't work nearly as well when there was a wind: during the night a breeze came through several times which rattled the tarp, dropped condensation on me, and let out a lot of warmth. Similar breezes came through when I was using the OverCover and those problems didn't occur. The OverCover is breathable nylon, so it lets the moisture out.


> Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing?


Yes. The Weather Shield is about the same size as the Nest, so it doesn't cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover does cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover has an entry slit but it isn't particularly convenient, since you still have to push aside the UnderPad. The Nest has a slit and the Weather Shield doesn't, which seemed to me to be easier to rearrange after entry. (I sealed the Nest's slit to itself rather than to the hammock to improve insulation, so my Nest was configured like your No Sniveler.)


> If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight?


I'm still thinking about that. The Weather Shield has the advantages of being breathable and a bit thicker, so it might be a better solution especially with the down Nest; I wasn't happy to find condensation(?) in the bottom of the UnderCover. (I'm a fan of the Weather Shield material, having relied on a DriDucks jacket in unexpected cold blowing rain.) The price difference is significant, while the weights are almost the same. The UnderCover has the advantage of covering more of the hammock bottom, although at these temps that doesn't mean much since the UnderPad doesn't. At warmer temps with strong blowing rain and the standard small HH tarp, the UnderCover would provide more protection to the ends of the hammock. That is the main reason I bought both: to use the Nest with the Weather Shield when it's cold, and the UnderPad with the UnderCover in warmer, wet and exposed conditions. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) there are a lot of combinations to test with five pieces of gear, not to mention the option of adding pads inside the hammock or other layers under the hammock.

I still need to check whether the UnderCover/UnderPad compresses the Nest when it is sandwiched in there; the Weather Shield definitely doesn't, in fact, it might have left the Nest hanging a bit loose. These would be even more of concern, both ways, when using two under quilts. I'll post more info soon.


> Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover?


Yes, otherwise the Nest will just pool underneath you. Even the UnderPad, which is stiffer than the Nest, has tensioning cords on each end (which go on the tarp connector hooks, along with the UnderCover and OverCover tensioning cords).


> And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.


Probably. I'm 6 foot 2, 230 pounds, and also sleep on my side. I poked and prodded through the sides of the hammock to see where the UnderPad was located, and it appeared to cover the sides well enough. I need to test further to see if it covers my toes and head, although this is less crucial in the warmer temps (40-60F) where I plan to use the UnderPad alone rather than the Nest. (The Nest will then become my top quilt.) You might want to take especial consideration of my comment about frostbite and be sure your No Sniveler is long enough to cover your feet!


>I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost.


The UnderCover is very expensive, especially compared to the Weather Shield, and is about the same weight. For cold weather, it appears to me that the Weather Shield is better not just because it's cheaper but because it is breathable, is big enough to protect the Nest and/or UnderPad, and the extra coverage of the UnderCover won't matter as much since it won't be raining. However, the Weather Shield probably isn't necessary to keep the Nest from getting wet when it's cold and just blowing dry snow, although it might be worth the weight if it added sufficient warmth or allowed you to add more insulating layers if it's colder than the Nest can handle by itself. The Weather Shield or UnderCover are probably most useful in very cold (below 0F) or warmer temps (near and above freezing) than in the range between.

The OverCover is fairly cheap and light, and I think it is worth its weight when it's really cold. It's cold enough in the hammock as it is (enough to freeze a bottle of sports drink a few inches above my face) and if it got windy you might find your eyeballs freezing (you could wear your ski goggles to bed, I suppose).

I hesitate to suggest in this forum that any piece of gear is worth its weight, since you could just try to survive without it. But having frozen my butt (literally) by sleeping in a hammock below freezing without any under-protection, and having slept in -30F colder weather comfortably with, carrying the additional 3 pounds of gear in Wyoming winter is a no-brainer for me. Since I've had three successful nights out, I'm going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.


> I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.


I did indeed miss it. One of the shortcomings of BPL's forum software is that it doesn't keep good track of messages you have and haven't seen near the times when you are reading messages, which is what most likely happened here. I was wondering if anybody was still following this thread!

Edited by Otter on 02/22/2006 20:03:10 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 10:14:23 MST Print View

>> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does?

>Since I've had three successful nights out, I'm going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.


Temperature last night was +18F with a light breeze. I wore the same clothing as in the +15F/+10F tests (except a 100-weight fleece hat instead of the balaclava), and configured the hammock the same but leaving off the HH OverCover and the JRB Weather Shield bottom (and switched from a small FlexAir pillow to a large). I staked the tarp down close to the hammock; doing so left some uncovered mesh areas on the sides, enough to enjoy the stars and let a bit of air through. I mated the JRB Nest opening to the HH hammock opening to see if my legs would get cold (they didn't).

I slept warmly all night. Thus, I am happily surprised that the JRB Nest alone as bottom insulation is sufficient for +18F temps (in conjunction with three layers of clothing), and clearly will work much colder. There was no condensation on either the mesh or the tarp (the dew point was about +8F). The weight saved by not using the OverCover and Weather Shield bottom was 14 oz. I may have overinflated the FlexAir pillow, but I found the size large to be less comfortable than the size small in the hammock.

The only bad part is that the test failed: I didn't get cold. Now I need (1) colder weather; (2) remove the insulated clothing (but I'd be carrying the insulation in the winter anyway, and it sure makes it pleasant when getting out of bed); or (3) swap the JRB Nest for the HH SuperShelter (UnderCover+UnderPad), or even just the UnderPad by itself.

Edited by Otter on 02/23/2006 10:33:24 MST.

Dane Fliedner
(dfliedner) - F

Locale: North Texas
Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 11:54:24 MST Print View

First of all, great post, thanks for all the detail. I had 2 questions:
1. I noticed that you did not use the GG 1/8" pad or the space blanket with your recent tests... did you find they really are not needed? I was planning on using these both to "bulk up" my JRB nest and Weather shield for my colder temp outings (teens to low 20s likely) but was curious if they really were needed (I have heard varied opinions).

2. I am in process (a local seamstress) in converting my TNF Beeline into a quilt for warmer temps, but was also thinking about also converting my 15 degree bag (for shoulder seasons) also into a quilt but am worried that in the colder temps it might not be a good idea, too drafty at those temps, even in a hammock. Any comments on this? Thanks!

john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 13:59:12 MST Print View

Dane,

Quilts are perfect answers in hammocks...Whatever you tuck in, stays tucked...no muss, no fuss, no extra weight.

But then I'm biased.

Pan

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 15:30:37 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks again for all the great information. I am learning a lot from you. With all my previous questions you were on your way to writing an article :)

What was the wind like on this test? Your previous post convinced me of the value of the OverCover. Are you now doubting it? I've wondered if two small fabric loops sewn to the underside of the tarp, where the lines from the hammock come from the sides, would allow you to pull the tarp down tighter to the hammock.

Dane, I would like to echo Pan. I do not sell quilts but own 2 No Sniveler Longs from Jacks R Better (possibly made by Pan) so I am less biased (maybe). A sleeping bag is harder to get into when you are off the ground. Anything you put underneath you in the hammock, such as pads, can be a real challenge to stay on. A quilt inside the hammock and a quilt underneath the hammock is the best I've experience thus far.