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Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:01:51 MST Print View

I have had an eagles net outfitters single nest hammock since this summer, I got it on sale at a boy scout camp, last one left for $25, what a steal. I will tell you that this is not the only peice of gear that I got the last of, but that is another story.

anyway, I have not yet taken it backpackig, and these last few days I have been very interested in trying it out, it is not the lightest hammock, but in the summer I will still be able to take it on SUL trips.

I am wondering if it will be compatible with any of the Jacks R better under quilts?

I am also asking for any other recomendatons from hammock campers about sleeping and shelter systems for use in hammocks, under and top insulation, how cold will it go, can I take it in the winter, do I have to adjust any other gear other than sleeping and shelter, or anything else you can think of.

Thanks to Carol Crooker for all her articles on SUL hammock camping. I tested out your set up with a sea to summit tarp over my hammock with a golite poncho, and I think it will work. your articles will be a real help.

Edited by ryanf on 01/04/2006 15:02:32 MST.


(Anonymous)
Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:17:52 MST Print View

Ryan the Younger,

FYI. Think you also got the last Clo-Up. Tried to order one quite a few months ago and spoke with Lars (?) at Montbell. He told me that they sold the last one earlier that day. Had to settle for the 23oz BurrowBag U.L. - just like the Clo-Up, but with a hood.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:36:14 MST Print View

Yeah, sorry Anon, that was me.

I noticed that, it was out of stock the moment after I orderd it, I did not know that they were not going to re-stock, Glad I orderd it whenI did, sorry you missed out though, it is a great bag, It has taken me to 15 degrees once, with a quite minimal layering system for what I was attemting, I cant say that I was warm, but not too uncomfortable, it is much better at 40+ temps, I am just crazy.

I also, me and my dad actually, got the last two Golite poncho tarps that were on sale at travel country a while ago for under $30. just luck I guess

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:53:29 MST Print View

The Jacks'R'Better quilts work fine on the Eagles Nest Hammock.

I thought the large carabiner and slap straps were too heavy so I replaced them with a 7 mm line and tree huggers.

What takes me down to 25 degress is: Worn is expedition weight long underwear, fleece socks, light balaclava, and PolarGuard insulated jacket. The bag is a Nunatak Arc Alpinist with the straps snapped over the bag. The under quilt is a Jacks ‘R’ Better quilt.

If the temperatures are expected to be below 25 degrees I drop to the ground. The snow under your sleeping pad is excellent insulation and seldom gets below 32 degrees. Why fight the temperature on two fronts?

It is possible to stay warm well below 25 degrees, but not as light as a ground system on snow.

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:59:06 MST Print View

I just saw that you have the GoLite poncho/tarp. That will make a great fly if you attach it to the hammock lines so the it stays closer to the hammock. Throw a prussik on the hammock line and attach with mini carabiners.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 16:15:25 MST Print View

thanks Richard,

You have one of these hammocks correct, I think you said this but I am making sure, dosent the under quilt have attachment points in the middle for HH? do you need this for quilt to work, or dose your the eagals nest work without any center attachment along the side?

thanks, I will try attaching the guys to the line I use to suspend Hammock. I dont know waht this rope is, it looks like climbing rope almost, but much lighter and thinner .

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 17:06:39 MST Print View

Yes, I do own one.

The first time I attached the under quilt to the hammock with 4 binder clips along the sides. They are not needed and did not stay attached anyhow.

All of my ideas are brilliant, but not all of them work.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
nest or no sniveller on 01/04/2006 17:29:36 MST Print View

thanks Rich, I am glad to hear they are not needed, imagine the insane extra weight of binder clips, just kidding :-)

my next question for you and all is whether to get the no sniveller or nest under quilt. it looks like they both can be used as an under quilt, top quilt and camp wear, they are both 20oz and pack down the same, which is better and why

thanks

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: nest or no sniveller on 01/05/2006 07:01:02 MST Print View

Ryan,

The No Sniveller would be more appropriate for use with the Eagles Nest since it's a top/side entry hammock. You don't need the Hennessy bottom entry slit of the Nest.

Regards,

Jack Myers
Jacks 'R' Better
www.jacksrbetter.com

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: nest or no sniveller on 01/05/2006 13:01:17 MST Print View

thanks Jack,

I guess I will go with the advice from the creator, also, Carol Crooker, the expert hammock camper, uses one frequently, that is enough for me.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock warmth on 01/05/2006 20:35:29 MST Print View

I can sleep comfortably on the ground with a foam pad, bivy, Arc ghost, long pants, rain pants, cocoon ,golite wisp, underarmor cold gear and long sleeve shirt with a fleece hat into the low 20s . my question is, can I sleep as warm in a hammock with an under quilt and ghost with a similar clothing system.

sadly, Carol crookers hammock trips have not gotten that cold, so I dont know.

Edited by ryanf on 01/05/2006 20:38:33 MST.

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 06:53:36 MST Print View

Ryan,

We've had customer reports that a Nest under quilt and a No Sniveller top quilt will get you that low with less clothing. I've personally been into the upper twenties with that quilt set up wearing light weight fleece long johns, down booties and a light fleece balaclava.

Regards,

Jack Myers

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 12:56:28 MST Print View

sweet, I thought it may be warmer in the air compared to the ground. my ghost is probably as warm or warmer than the no sniveller as a top and with a no sniveller under quilt I could take to the low teens with a good layering system. I have gone to 15 with a 50 degree bag once, but was not very comfortable, but I am very tollerant to the cold

thanks Jack

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 13:47:20 MST Print View

I'm willing to bet Carol's not sad the temps didn't drop terribly low ;-)

I think of a hammock as an inverse convection oven--call it a convection refrigerator--and I'm wary of tackling anything below 40 in my rig (Hennessy, 3/8 foam pad, 2# down bag). My guess is that when hammocking, we're eliminating some conductive heat loss and adding considerable convective loss. And, any breeze really increases this loss, certainly having more effect than when sleeping on the ground.

Transitioning to using the hammock itself for hosting the insulation makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm only sorry it's so costly to give it a fair shot. I can definitely say that as long as I'm warm, there's nothing remotely close to the comfort of hammock sleeping.

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 14:39:13 MST Print View

That's the primary reason for the existence of Jacks 'R' Better. We wanted to be able to use our hammocks year around. We experimented with every combination of pad and insulation ideas before we broke down and made our first under quilts. It only took one December night in snow, sleet, and freezing rain, temps in the low 30s to upper 20s, and sleeping soundly for 8 hours straight through the night to convince us we'd found the answer. We will never go to ground again if there are trees or a reasonable facsimile in the area. Fence posts, swing sets, etc. will serve the purpose. JRB is about sharing the best answer with the rest of the hammocking community.

Regards,

Jack

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 21:30:53 MST Print View

It doesn't seem that hammocks are as widespread in the UL/SUL community as they are in the rest of the outdoor world. But that will hopefully change. A good resource for you to check out would be the popular Yahoo group for hammock camping. There is a strong hammock community at WhiteBlaze, with lots of info in the archives. Ed Speer of Speer hammocks also keeps a good collection of links at hammockcamping.com.

Just wanted to give you some leads to find even more answers and inspiration...

-Mark

john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 06:52:22 MST Print View

There is really no reason that hammock use is not more wide spread in the UL community... Carol has aptly demonstrated multiple viable approaches to hammock camping with SUL loads below the arbitrary 5 pound threshhold... I have a 7 pound UL summer hammock gear list that is all commercially available...See gear list at http://216.83.168.206/index_files/Gear%20List.htm

This list could go 2, possibly three season... there are three season and winter loads still in the UL range... Couple of weekends ago I put together a winter list at 9 pound using the new JRB hood and sleeves and eliminating an insulation layer.

It seems to me that the issue ought to be about comfort and weight vs just weight...

When one goes from ground sleeping in tents to ground sleeping under a tarp or in a bivi, the comfort of ground sleeping is about the same... I agree there are warmth and degree of shelter issues that go to comfort but most of the debate here is in a realitively close range... clearly then weight may be fairly viewed as the descriminating issue ( some tenters may disagree, and yes, Alpine conditions bring the tent etc back into play or at least serious consideration).

The comfort of a hammock is many time that of the ground... yes techniques are different... but while education and experiance is invaluable it is weight free... Warmth and wind protection is available several ways... normally at less weight than tenting alternative and close to all but the most extreme minimal tarp SUL or EUL.

There are several individuals with silk hammocks and cuben tarps etc that could easily be SUL Hammockers...

Let the debates begin.

Jack

Edited by Peter_pan on 01/07/2006 06:54:30 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 07:52:57 MST Print View

for three season, I carry less than 3.5 lbs of gear. But lately, I figured out that my main goal was under 5. so now I am adding back a few comforts, I will still always take the same cooking, clothing, packing systems, but I am going to change my list to include a hammock, and when that is not an option, to include an inflatable pad. I guess I think, why sleep on a foam pad when you dont have too? I can go SUL in comfort, on the ground and in the air

thanks Jack and Mark.

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 07:53:52 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 07:55:29 MST Print View

and Rick,

sounds like you have had some problems with the wind, have you checked out the JRB weather sheild?

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock suspension on 01/07/2006 10:05:53 MST Print View

I figured out I can leave the heavy carabeaners at home by suspending the hammock similarly to the speer hammocks by tying the rope around the knot at the end of the hammock. Can you do the same with an ultralight travel hammock, I am thinking of upgrading to this 10oz or less hammock. without the steel S hooks it may be aroun 7oz

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

ps, sorry, I dont know how to spell carabeaners

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 10:36:24 MST.