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Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:01:51 MST Print View

I have had an eagles net outfitters single nest hammock since this summer, I got it on sale at a boy scout camp, last one left for $25, what a steal. I will tell you that this is not the only peice of gear that I got the last of, but that is another story.

anyway, I have not yet taken it backpackig, and these last few days I have been very interested in trying it out, it is not the lightest hammock, but in the summer I will still be able to take it on SUL trips.

I am wondering if it will be compatible with any of the Jacks R better under quilts?

I am also asking for any other recomendatons from hammock campers about sleeping and shelter systems for use in hammocks, under and top insulation, how cold will it go, can I take it in the winter, do I have to adjust any other gear other than sleeping and shelter, or anything else you can think of.

Thanks to Carol Crooker for all her articles on SUL hammock camping. I tested out your set up with a sea to summit tarp over my hammock with a golite poncho, and I think it will work. your articles will be a real help.

Edited by ryanf on 01/04/2006 15:02:32 MST.


(Anonymous)
Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:17:52 MST Print View

Ryan the Younger,

FYI. Think you also got the last Clo-Up. Tried to order one quite a few months ago and spoke with Lars (?) at Montbell. He told me that they sold the last one earlier that day. Had to settle for the 23oz BurrowBag U.L. - just like the Clo-Up, but with a hood.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:36:14 MST Print View

Yeah, sorry Anon, that was me.

I noticed that, it was out of stock the moment after I orderd it, I did not know that they were not going to re-stock, Glad I orderd it whenI did, sorry you missed out though, it is a great bag, It has taken me to 15 degrees once, with a quite minimal layering system for what I was attemting, I cant say that I was warm, but not too uncomfortable, it is much better at 40+ temps, I am just crazy.

I also, me and my dad actually, got the last two Golite poncho tarps that were on sale at travel country a while ago for under $30. just luck I guess

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:53:29 MST Print View

The Jacks'R'Better quilts work fine on the Eagles Nest Hammock.

I thought the large carabiner and slap straps were too heavy so I replaced them with a 7 mm line and tree huggers.

What takes me down to 25 degress is: Worn is expedition weight long underwear, fleece socks, light balaclava, and PolarGuard insulated jacket. The bag is a Nunatak Arc Alpinist with the straps snapped over the bag. The under quilt is a Jacks ‘R’ Better quilt.

If the temperatures are expected to be below 25 degrees I drop to the ground. The snow under your sleeping pad is excellent insulation and seldom gets below 32 degrees. Why fight the temperature on two fronts?

It is possible to stay warm well below 25 degrees, but not as light as a ground system on snow.

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 15:59:06 MST Print View

I just saw that you have the GoLite poncho/tarp. That will make a great fly if you attach it to the hammock lines so the it stays closer to the hammock. Throw a prussik on the hammock line and attach with mini carabiners.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 16:15:25 MST Print View

thanks Richard,

You have one of these hammocks correct, I think you said this but I am making sure, dosent the under quilt have attachment points in the middle for HH? do you need this for quilt to work, or dose your the eagals nest work without any center attachment along the side?

thanks, I will try attaching the guys to the line I use to suspend Hammock. I dont know waht this rope is, it looks like climbing rope almost, but much lighter and thinner .

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 01/04/2006 17:06:39 MST Print View

Yes, I do own one.

The first time I attached the under quilt to the hammock with 4 binder clips along the sides. They are not needed and did not stay attached anyhow.

All of my ideas are brilliant, but not all of them work.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
nest or no sniveller on 01/04/2006 17:29:36 MST Print View

thanks Rich, I am glad to hear they are not needed, imagine the insane extra weight of binder clips, just kidding :-)

my next question for you and all is whether to get the no sniveller or nest under quilt. it looks like they both can be used as an under quilt, top quilt and camp wear, they are both 20oz and pack down the same, which is better and why

thanks

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: nest or no sniveller on 01/05/2006 07:01:02 MST Print View

Ryan,

The No Sniveller would be more appropriate for use with the Eagles Nest since it's a top/side entry hammock. You don't need the Hennessy bottom entry slit of the Nest.

Regards,

Jack Myers
Jacks 'R' Better
www.jacksrbetter.com

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: nest or no sniveller on 01/05/2006 13:01:17 MST Print View

thanks Jack,

I guess I will go with the advice from the creator, also, Carol Crooker, the expert hammock camper, uses one frequently, that is enough for me.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock warmth on 01/05/2006 20:35:29 MST Print View

I can sleep comfortably on the ground with a foam pad, bivy, Arc ghost, long pants, rain pants, cocoon ,golite wisp, underarmor cold gear and long sleeve shirt with a fleece hat into the low 20s . my question is, can I sleep as warm in a hammock with an under quilt and ghost with a similar clothing system.

sadly, Carol crookers hammock trips have not gotten that cold, so I dont know.

Edited by ryanf on 01/05/2006 20:38:33 MST.

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 06:53:36 MST Print View

Ryan,

We've had customer reports that a Nest under quilt and a No Sniveller top quilt will get you that low with less clothing. I've personally been into the upper twenties with that quilt set up wearing light weight fleece long johns, down booties and a light fleece balaclava.

Regards,

Jack Myers

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 12:56:28 MST Print View

sweet, I thought it may be warmer in the air compared to the ground. my ghost is probably as warm or warmer than the no sniveller as a top and with a no sniveller under quilt I could take to the low teens with a good layering system. I have gone to 15 with a 50 degree bag once, but was not very comfortable, but I am very tollerant to the cold

thanks Jack

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 13:47:20 MST Print View

I'm willing to bet Carol's not sad the temps didn't drop terribly low ;-)

I think of a hammock as an inverse convection oven--call it a convection refrigerator--and I'm wary of tackling anything below 40 in my rig (Hennessy, 3/8 foam pad, 2# down bag). My guess is that when hammocking, we're eliminating some conductive heat loss and adding considerable convective loss. And, any breeze really increases this loss, certainly having more effect than when sleeping on the ground.

Transitioning to using the hammock itself for hosting the insulation makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm only sorry it's so costly to give it a fair shot. I can definitely say that as long as I'm warm, there's nothing remotely close to the comfort of hammock sleeping.

Jack Myers
(Smee) - F
Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 14:39:13 MST Print View

That's the primary reason for the existence of Jacks 'R' Better. We wanted to be able to use our hammocks year around. We experimented with every combination of pad and insulation ideas before we broke down and made our first under quilts. It only took one December night in snow, sleet, and freezing rain, temps in the low 30s to upper 20s, and sleeping soundly for 8 hours straight through the night to convince us we'd found the answer. We will never go to ground again if there are trees or a reasonable facsimile in the area. Fence posts, swing sets, etc. will serve the purpose. JRB is about sharing the best answer with the rest of the hammocking community.

Regards,

Jack

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/06/2006 21:30:53 MST Print View

It doesn't seem that hammocks are as widespread in the UL/SUL community as they are in the rest of the outdoor world. But that will hopefully change. A good resource for you to check out would be the popular Yahoo group for hammock camping. There is a strong hammock community at WhiteBlaze, with lots of info in the archives. Ed Speer of Speer hammocks also keeps a good collection of links at hammockcamping.com.

Just wanted to give you some leads to find even more answers and inspiration...

-Mark

john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 06:52:22 MST Print View

There is really no reason that hammock use is not more wide spread in the UL community... Carol has aptly demonstrated multiple viable approaches to hammock camping with SUL loads below the arbitrary 5 pound threshhold... I have a 7 pound UL summer hammock gear list that is all commercially available...See gear list at http://216.83.168.206/index_files/Gear%20List.htm

This list could go 2, possibly three season... there are three season and winter loads still in the UL range... Couple of weekends ago I put together a winter list at 9 pound using the new JRB hood and sleeves and eliminating an insulation layer.

It seems to me that the issue ought to be about comfort and weight vs just weight...

When one goes from ground sleeping in tents to ground sleeping under a tarp or in a bivi, the comfort of ground sleeping is about the same... I agree there are warmth and degree of shelter issues that go to comfort but most of the debate here is in a realitively close range... clearly then weight may be fairly viewed as the descriminating issue ( some tenters may disagree, and yes, Alpine conditions bring the tent etc back into play or at least serious consideration).

The comfort of a hammock is many time that of the ground... yes techniques are different... but while education and experiance is invaluable it is weight free... Warmth and wind protection is available several ways... normally at less weight than tenting alternative and close to all but the most extreme minimal tarp SUL or EUL.

There are several individuals with silk hammocks and cuben tarps etc that could easily be SUL Hammockers...

Let the debates begin.

Jack

Edited by Peter_pan on 01/07/2006 06:54:30 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 07:52:57 MST Print View

for three season, I carry less than 3.5 lbs of gear. But lately, I figured out that my main goal was under 5. so now I am adding back a few comforts, I will still always take the same cooking, clothing, packing systems, but I am going to change my list to include a hammock, and when that is not an option, to include an inflatable pad. I guess I think, why sleep on a foam pad when you dont have too? I can go SUL in comfort, on the ground and in the air

thanks Jack and Mark.

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 07:53:52 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth on 01/07/2006 07:55:29 MST Print View

and Rick,

sounds like you have had some problems with the wind, have you checked out the JRB weather sheild?

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock suspension on 01/07/2006 10:05:53 MST Print View

I figured out I can leave the heavy carabeaners at home by suspending the hammock similarly to the speer hammocks by tying the rope around the knot at the end of the hammock. Can you do the same with an ultralight travel hammock, I am thinking of upgrading to this 10oz or less hammock. without the steel S hooks it may be aroun 7oz

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

ps, sorry, I dont know how to spell carabeaners

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 10:36:24 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Hammock suspension on 01/07/2006 15:54:13 MST Print View

well this worked all day today, I took a couple naps, and it shows no signs of wear, I may be crazy, but I cut the black cord you see in the picture off right before it reaches the knott that keeps the hammock together, my hammock now weighs 13.4oz. I have decided to get the ultralight travel hammock an try modifying it similarly, dose anyone have a travel hammock and see any reason this may not work? if so I would apreciate hearing from you, thanks.

I also found the perfect knot for tying around the end of the hammock, it holds very well and is easy to tie and even easier to undo.

try to follow the pictures, the battery on my camera was almost out so there was no flash, luckily the cord is bright yellow.

first, take the end of the rope not connected to the tree and wrap it around the end of the hammock and feed it through the hole it makes, dont tighten it yet
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

then wrap around the back of the cord like this

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

and then feed it through that space leving a loop so when you take the hammock down you just pull the end of the cord and the knot is undone
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

this knot works, and is easy to undo, I like it. I dont know if this has been done before, but I did come up with it myself :-)

and try to tighten it as much as you can before getting into the hammock, or the knot wont be secure and may uno itself, just pull tightly a few times and you are good to go

Edited by ryanf on 01/07/2006 17:45:50 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Hammock Modifacations on 01/07/2006 17:37:15 MST Print View

I have modified my hammock down to 13.4oz, I removed compression straps on the stuff sack, removed the carabeeners and extra cord at the ends.

the only other way I can think of lightening is by removing the stuff sack and using my small OR helium stuff sack, but I havent yet, and I dont know if I will.

I cant wait to get an ultralight travel hammock and do the same stuff, this will bring it down under 7oz I expect.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 10:13:47 MST Print View

Ryan,
1) Be careful when testing your brainstorms. You may weigh 110 soaking wet, but if you fall far, you'll bust your butt. Necks have been broken. So hang the hammock just above the ground or put a thick pad (4 inches or more) under it when you first try a new rig. Remember your physics: energy increases with the square of the velocity, and the velocity increases at 32 feet per second per second of fall. Erk! Ergo, higher hurts more. (Ergo-erg, bad physics joke.)

2) Be careful with unfamiliar rope. Small diameter Spectra line is very slippery and can slip out of a knot. It requires complex knots with lots of friction. See "sudden death" above.

3) The knot on the end of the hammock does not have to be undone except for modifications - never once you get it right. However the Speer rig with a knot in the hammock and a loop in the line is the best of all possible worlds: secure and easily untied. Ever the contrarian, I use a double sheet bent instead because it is more compact and elegant. Anyway, the point is,a slip knot is not useful. On the other hand, it is likely to loosen and drop you like a hangman.

4) Save the easily untied knots for the free end - the one that goes on the tree. And be careful there, too. The lineman's knot or rigger's knot - the so-called Hennessey knot - will not jamb, so it will always untie easily. Jambing is the second biggest problem with hammock knots. (The first one is coming undone unexpectedly.) The lineman's knot is especially useful with small diameter, high modulus line such as Spectra or Dyneema. It is also best for slippery lines, such as small Spectra and Dyneema. Funny how that works out. The same caution applies with the tree knot. Screw up and you will hit the ground. Hard. No joke.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 14:21:02 MST Print View

thanks Vick, this knot works great for the rope I am using, but if I get a new cord I will be careful testing with it like you said.

I modified my hammock further today, I untied the black cord on each end holding the hammock together and cut off a few inches from one side, I did not have to sew anything because I cut at the seam of one of the side colors, if you look at the picture on the eagles nest website, just picture it like it is, but missing one of the colored sides. and also, instead of replacing the cord at the ends, I just tied a knot in the fabric at each end. it is a little shorter, but still longer than I need at 8.5 ft., and will probably fit better under my tarp. it is still wider than I need, I could cut off the other side color and it would be about perfect, but I am afraid it would not work with an underquilt because it is too small, what do you think.

Edited by ryanf on 01/08/2006 14:25:31 MST.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 16:08:59 MST Print View

Wide is good. It lets you sleep almost flat in the diagonal, Central American style. That may not seem important now, but on the trail, when your knees are aching and your back wants to spaz out, you will be grateful. The underquilt will work regardless. Don't worry about that. If it comes over the side a little, no problem.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hammock suspension on 01/08/2006 16:48:44 MST Print View

Thanks Vick,
the hammock I have been modifying is still larger than I think it needs to be, even when sleeping diagonal, but I will leave it the width it is.

I took off the attached stuff sack, and I am now using an OR helium stuff sack, now, including the stuff sack, the hammock weighs 9.9oz, that is almost half of the origionl weight of 18.8oz, I will probably stop modifying, but replace with a nano stuff when they are available. my next project is a silk hammock.

Edited by ryanf on 01/08/2006 16:50:54 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Hammock warmth on 01/22/2006 13:07:58 MST Print View

I spent the last two nights outside in my hammock, with temps down to 15F the first night and below 10F the second night. Here's the gear:

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Weather Shield bottom cover (9.5 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
Stansport Emergency ("space") Blanket (optional) (2.1 oz)
GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8" pad (optional) (2.5 oz)
BMW TorsoLite pad (optional) (10.2 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small) (0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz) or Halflinger felted wool slippers (size 12: 14.2 oz)
REI Performance liner gloves (L: 1.3 oz)

The first night I put the space blanket over the Nest, and I had the ThinLight pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until 5am, when a chill down my back woke me up and kept me from going back to sleep. I put the ThinLight pad underneath me and slept soundly until 7am. However, it's hard to move around with a pad underneath, so I didn't position myself properly in the hammock. From 5am to 7am my left heel pressed against an uncovered part of the hammock and compressed the sock, bootie and quilt. When I got up at 7am I had symptoms of frostbite in my heel. There was a 10-15mph breeze during the night, and no condensation on the inside of the hammock.

During the day, I had my wife check the fit of the undercover while I was in the hammock, and it turned out there was about a 6" gap between the hammock and the under quilt (which explains my cold back!). She removed the space blanket and properly adjusted the Nest and Weather Shield for me.

The second night I wanted to be sure that I didn't get frostbite, so I switched from down booties to felted wool slippers, which don't compress (too heavy to carry, though). This night I had the TorsoLite pad in the hammock with me in case I needed more insulation. I slept warmly until I woke at 5am. Although I was still warm enough at this point, I decided to put the TorsoLite pad underneath me to see how much difference it made. I slept comfortably until 7am and awoke with warm feet. There was a 5mph breeze during the night, and a very thin layer of frozen condensation rimed the inside of the hammock. My sports drink, suspended about 12" above my face, was frozen solid by 5am.

This is the first time I've used an under quilt with the hammock. On previous outings I've used nothing (a big mistake at 27F) and combinations of a space blanket, Coleman 3/8" closed-cell foam pad, GossamerGear ThinLight 1/8" pad and Therm-A-Rest Z-Rest torso-length pad at temperatures between 35-50F. The under quilt is certainly much easier to use; I've twice flipped the hammock over completely while trying to reposition pads, and it is a credit to Hennessy's construction quality that I didn't tear through the netting. None of my previous pad arrangements felt warm enough at near-freezing temperatures, so the Jacks R Better Nest is clearly a better cold-weather solution. The ThinLight pad is quite warm (I'm hoping that GossamerGear will offer an over-sized 3/8" ThinLight pad) and the TorsoLite was easy to slip onto during the night, so I think it should be possible to use these to extend this sleeping system to even lower temperatures. I would likely carry both of these pads on a winter trip in case I choose to 'go to ground' or build a snow cave.

The space blanket wasn't necessary, although I would probably carry it on a winter trip. I'm still not sure how much benefit it offers, either as a vapor barrier to protect the down under quilt or as a radiant heat reflector. It is thin and flexible so it probably doesn't cause much compression of the Nest under quilt or prevent it from closely hugging the hammock. I'm not sure how much the Weather Shield affected the performance of the under-layer since I haven't yet used the Nest without it. I plan to try the Weather Shield with just the ThinLight pad inside during warmer weather.

I'm glad I had the Hennessy Over Cover. I don't think it was very humid inside the hammock with it in place, as there was no or very little condensation. It did raise the inside temperature, as I have previously experienced the pleasure of a sub-freezing breeze blowing under the fly and through the netting, and I didn't miss that a bit. I have a Hennessy SuperShelter on order and I hope to test that soon.

The Ray-Way quilt worked great. It's a pain getting into and out of a sleeping bag in a hammock; I much prefer the quilt. My top-side stayed warm all night and I haven't yet found its low temperature limit (it's killer hot at 50F). Likewise, the Ray-Way Bomber Hat kept me warm when my REI Squall hat (300-weight fleece and nylon flap cap) wasn't cutting it. Both the quilt and hat are insulated with Polarguard 3D.

This was a first test for my new MicroPuff and Cocoon insulating layer and they kept me warm both outside and in the hammock. These three layers of clothing, with the addition of a shell layer, would be the clothing carried for winter day use so there is no extra weight penalty.

Edited by Otter on 02/17/2006 10:31:22 MST.


(Anonymous)
loft? on 01/23/2006 11:36:45 MST Print View

Great post! Thanks for typing all of that!

Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation. I'm in the middle of designing my sleep system and will be making a lot of the pieces. I'm having trouble settling on the loft for each of the components. Your info will help a lot!

-jamie

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: loft? on 01/23/2006 13:00:07 MST Print View

> Could you post the loft of the various pieces of insulation.


As best I can measure, the loft is:

Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (2.5")
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (2.5")

Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (0.5")
BMW Cocoon pants (1.0") (wow!)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (0.75")
BPL PossumDown socks (0.25")
Eddie Bauer down booties (0.5")


I edited my previous message to include size, since some of these items may appear to weigh a bit more than the manufacturer's claims, which are usually for smaller sizes than mine.


(Anonymous)
Thank you! on 01/23/2006 13:22:55 MST Print View

That info is perfect! I have been trying to decide how thick to make my quilt and underquilt. Sounds like 2.5" plus modest clothes will work fine for above 20F degrees.

By the way, thanks for mentioning that the quilt is "killer hot" at 50F. I'm trying to find that sweet spot for my quilt that will be warm, yet usuable for most of three seasons. I think I'm leaning toward 2" loft for the quilt. I can wear clothes as needed, including a go-lite down jacket and down pants (as soon as I make those!).

I'll probably make my underquilt a full 2.5" since that is less likely to overheat me. (And I can let it hang further away from the bottom if absolutely needed.)

Thanks again!

Just off hand... The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting... I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+" of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?

In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!

-jamie

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Thank you! on 01/23/2006 13:39:31 MST Print View

> The loft/weight on the Ray Way quilt is interesting... I expected more loft. (I think at about 24 ounces you could get 3+" of down loft in a quilt.) Has it lost any loft over the time you owned it?


You probably would get close to 3" of loft for 24 oz. in a down quilt (as in the Jacks R Better Old Rag Mtn). My Ray-Way quilt has about the same surface area as the Nest, but is made with three layers of 0.75" Polarguard 3D. It doesn't appear to have lost any loft. I wanted to make my own, but I'm not going to mess with down!

I'm thinking of making another Ray-Way quilt with two layers of 0.75" Polarguard 3D for summer use. I think that would be sufficient for temps down to the mid-30's.


>In any case, sounds like a very comfortable set up!


It is. The sleep system weighs almost 7 pounds, but the hammock sure is comfortable and versatile.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 2 on 02/17/2006 12:19:05 MST Print View

Another cold night out in the hammock, this time at -2F. The rest of my Hennessy SuperShelter arrived, so I combined that with the JRB Nest under quilt, since the temperature was well below what I thought the SuperShelter could handle on its own.

I slept warm all night long.

Here is the gear list. It's close to what I used last time, but I thought it would be simpler to post a complete list rather than a bunch of additions and subtractions.

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock OverCover (4.5 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderCover (9.8 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderPad (10.7 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Duofold long underwear (L: 5.4 oz)
BMW Cocoon pants (XL: 8.2 oz)
polypro balaclava (L: 1.2 oz)
Novara Thermal Tech Skullcap (1.1 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)

BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Eddie Bauer down booties (XL: 3.1 oz)
Seirus Super Liner gloves (S/M: 1.1 oz)

This night was about ten degrees (F) cooler than the previous test, so for clothing I switched to a slightly loftier fleece shirt (which I've used, along with the compression tee, for snowshoeing in windy -5F conditions) and added a skullcap.

I wasn't able to check how closely the HH UnderCover fit with somebody in the hammock, but I think it was fairly close with both the JRB Nest and HH UnderPad inside. It's possible the JRB Nest was a bit compressed. I put the JRB Nest next to the hammock, followed by the HH UnderPad (3/4" open-cell foam dimple-cut on one side to 1/4"), then the HH UnderCover. Since the hammock was fairly well enclosed, I had some condensation frosting the mesh in the morning. Not very much; I knocked off what I could and collected maybe a tablespoon of water when melted. There was also moisture between the UnderPad and the UnderCover. It's possible this moisture fell off the fly during the night and collected in the UnderCover, but I think it's more likely, since the UnderCover is made of silnylon, that it condensed during the night because the moisture couldn't escape. I didn't notice any condensation between the JRB Nest and the JRB Weather Shield bottom in the previous tests, probably because the Weather Shield material is breathable. There wasn't a whole lot of moisture collected inside the UnderCover, but I'll probably continue to position the UnderPad outside the JRB Nest so the condensation doesn't collect in the down (the JRB Nest and the hammock-side of the UnderPad both felt dry).

The sleep system weight is 119 oz, or almost 7 1/2 pounds. I'd trust this setup to go another ten degrees (F) colder without change. If I have to make changes to handle even colder weather, I'll add another HH UnderPad on top of the JRB Nest (or replace the JRB Nest with the thicker JRB "Old Rag Mtn" down quilt) and maybe add a JRB Weather Shield top cover over the Ray-Way quilt.

Edited by Otter on 02/17/2006 12:35:42 MST.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Thank you! on 02/17/2006 16:48:11 MST Print View

Douglas,
"I wanted to make my own, but I'm not going to mess with down! "
Do it, man. Check the Thruhiker site for easy to follow directions. It might take a little longer to make a down shell with baffels, but not that much longer compared to the time to point-quilt a poly quilt.

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/18/2006 09:11:57 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :) Looking back over my post it seems I am looking for a review of the SuperShelter.

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/22/2006 11:53:58 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks for the great information! I have a Hennessy Hammock as well, but have not used it in cold weather yet, though I plan to. I have 2 Jacks R Better No Snivler quilts and a Western Mountaineering Versalite bag. My plan for the cold was to use the two quilts under the hammock and the bag inside and pull the tarp down tight.

I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost. Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover? If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does? Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing? If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight? Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover? And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.

Sorry for the rapid fire questions :). I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.

Edited by ericnoble on 02/22/2006 12:17:43 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 2 on 02/22/2006 19:56:09 MST Print View

> Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest and saved the weight of the UnderCover?


Yes, and also possibly the Nest between the hammock and the UnderPad, since the UnderPad has its own tensioning cords. Next time I set it up I will test whether either or both of these configurations stay sufficiently close to the hammock bottom. The Underpad is 4" shorter than the Nest and 11" narrower at the middle. The ends are tapered, more so at the foot than the shoulders, but probably no more tapered than the Nest with its cords pulled.

My reason for using the UnderCover is to protect the Nest/UnderPad from exposure to precipitation. The UnderPad, although it is open-cell foam, doesn't appear to be very absorbent (the condensation that I found on it just beaded up) so perhaps it might be sufficiently weatherproof on its own. The Nest has DWR treatment, but I'm hesitant to expose a down quilt to blowing snow or rain even if it isn't critical-path for survival (if it got soaked I could go to ground, assuming I was also carrying a groundsheet and winter pads).

I do not know how much warmth is held in by the UnderCover, although I suspect it is probably in the 5-10F range usually claimed for bivies.


> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does?


Mostly. I have staked the tarp down tight against the hammock in 25-30F weather (when I had nothing more than the hammock and a down sleeping bag--brrr!) and it did make it warmer inside (compared to the first night, when I staked the tarp out wide) with some condensation (frost) on the tarp in the morning. It didn't work nearly as well when there was a wind: during the night a breeze came through several times which rattled the tarp, dropped condensation on me, and let out a lot of warmth. Similar breezes came through when I was using the OverCover and those problems didn't occur. The OverCover is breathable nylon, so it lets the moisture out.


> Do the JRB Shield and the UnderCover do roughly the same thing?


Yes. The Weather Shield is about the same size as the Nest, so it doesn't cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover does cover the entire hammock bottom. The UnderCover has an entry slit but it isn't particularly convenient, since you still have to push aside the UnderPad. The Nest has a slit and the Weather Shield doesn't, which seemed to me to be easier to rearrange after entry. (I sealed the Nest's slit to itself rather than to the hammock to improve insulation, so my Nest was configured like your No Sniveler.)


> If you had to choose one would it be the Undercover for its added protection, or the Shield for its cost and weight?


I'm still thinking about that. The Weather Shield has the advantages of being breathable and a bit thicker, so it might be a better solution especially with the down Nest; I wasn't happy to find condensation(?) in the bottom of the UnderCover. (I'm a fan of the Weather Shield material, having relied on a DriDucks jacket in unexpected cold blowing rain.) The price difference is significant, while the weights are almost the same. The UnderCover has the advantage of covering more of the hammock bottom, although at these temps that doesn't mean much since the UnderPad doesn't. At warmer temps with strong blowing rain and the standard small HH tarp, the UnderCover would provide more protection to the ends of the hammock. That is the main reason I bought both: to use the Nest with the Weather Shield when it's cold, and the UnderPad with the UnderCover in warmer, wet and exposed conditions. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) there are a lot of combinations to test with five pieces of gear, not to mention the option of adding pads inside the hammock or other layers under the hammock.

I still need to check whether the UnderCover/UnderPad compresses the Nest when it is sandwiched in there; the Weather Shield definitely doesn't, in fact, it might have left the Nest hanging a bit loose. These would be even more of concern, both ways, when using two under quilts. I'll post more info soon.


> Is the JRB Suspension System necessary when you are using the UnderCover?


Yes, otherwise the Nest will just pool underneath you. Even the UnderPad, which is stiffer than the Nest, has tensioning cords on each end (which go on the tarp connector hooks, along with the UnderCover and OverCover tensioning cords).


> And finally, is the UnderPad large enough? I am 6 foot 4, 210 pounds, and usually sleep on my side.


Probably. I'm 6 foot 2, 230 pounds, and also sleep on my side. I poked and prodded through the sides of the hammock to see where the UnderPad was located, and it appeared to cover the sides well enough. I need to test further to see if it covers my toes and head, although this is less crucial in the warmer temps (40-60F) where I plan to use the UnderPad alone rather than the Nest. (The Nest will then become my top quilt.) You might want to take especial consideration of my comment about frostbite and be sure your No Sniveler is long enough to cover your feet!


>I can see the theoretical benefits of the OverCover and UnderCover, but wonder if your practical experience showed that they were worth the weight and cost.


The UnderCover is very expensive, especially compared to the Weather Shield, and is about the same weight. For cold weather, it appears to me that the Weather Shield is better not just because it's cheaper but because it is breathable, is big enough to protect the Nest and/or UnderPad, and the extra coverage of the UnderCover won't matter as much since it won't be raining. However, the Weather Shield probably isn't necessary to keep the Nest from getting wet when it's cold and just blowing dry snow, although it might be worth the weight if it added sufficient warmth or allowed you to add more insulating layers if it's colder than the Nest can handle by itself. The Weather Shield or UnderCover are probably most useful in very cold (below 0F) or warmer temps (near and above freezing) than in the range between.

The OverCover is fairly cheap and light, and I think it is worth its weight when it's really cold. It's cold enough in the hammock as it is (enough to freeze a bottle of sports drink a few inches above my face) and if it got windy you might find your eyeballs freezing (you could wear your ski goggles to bed, I suppose).

I hesitate to suggest in this forum that any piece of gear is worth its weight, since you could just try to survive without it. But having frozen my butt (literally) by sleeping in a hammock below freezing without any under-protection, and having slept in -30F colder weather comfortably with, carrying the additional 3 pounds of gear in Wyoming winter is a no-brainer for me. Since I've had three successful nights out, I'm going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.


> I reposted this to get your attention. I am guessing you missed it the first time as it happen over a weekend.


I did indeed miss it. One of the shortcomings of BPL's forum software is that it doesn't keep good track of messages you have and haven't seen near the times when you are reading messages, which is what most likely happened here. I was wondering if anybody was still following this thread!

Edited by Otter on 02/22/2006 20:03:10 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 10:14:23 MST Print View

>> If you pulled the tarp down tight against the hammock wouldn't that do what the OverCover does?

>Since I've had three successful nights out, I'm going to start removing various pieces until I get cold.


Temperature last night was +18F with a light breeze. I wore the same clothing as in the +15F/+10F tests (except a 100-weight fleece hat instead of the balaclava), and configured the hammock the same but leaving off the HH OverCover and the JRB Weather Shield bottom (and switched from a small FlexAir pillow to a large). I staked the tarp down close to the hammock; doing so left some uncovered mesh areas on the sides, enough to enjoy the stars and let a bit of air through. I mated the JRB Nest opening to the HH hammock opening to see if my legs would get cold (they didn't).

I slept warmly all night. Thus, I am happily surprised that the JRB Nest alone as bottom insulation is sufficient for +18F temps (in conjunction with three layers of clothing), and clearly will work much colder. There was no condensation on either the mesh or the tarp (the dew point was about +8F). The weight saved by not using the OverCover and Weather Shield bottom was 14 oz. I may have overinflated the FlexAir pillow, but I found the size large to be less comfortable than the size small in the hammock.

The only bad part is that the test failed: I didn't get cold. Now I need (1) colder weather; (2) remove the insulated clothing (but I'd be carrying the insulation in the winter anyway, and it sure makes it pleasant when getting out of bed); or (3) swap the JRB Nest for the HH SuperShelter (UnderCover+UnderPad), or even just the UnderPad by itself.

Edited by Otter on 02/23/2006 10:33:24 MST.

Dane Fliedner
(dfliedner) - F

Locale: North Texas
Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 11:54:24 MST Print View

First of all, great post, thanks for all the detail. I had 2 questions:
1. I noticed that you did not use the GG 1/8" pad or the space blanket with your recent tests... did you find they really are not needed? I was planning on using these both to "bulk up" my JRB nest and Weather shield for my colder temp outings (teens to low 20s likely) but was curious if they really were needed (I have heard varied opinions).

2. I am in process (a local seamstress) in converting my TNF Beeline into a quilt for warmer temps, but was also thinking about also converting my 15 degree bag (for shoulder seasons) also into a quilt but am worried that in the colder temps it might not be a good idea, too drafty at those temps, even in a hammock. Any comments on this? Thanks!

john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 13:59:12 MST Print View

Dane,

Quilts are perfect answers in hammocks...Whatever you tuck in, stays tucked...no muss, no fuss, no extra weight.

But then I'm biased.

Pan

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 15:30:37 MST Print View

Douglas,
Thanks again for all the great information. I am learning a lot from you. With all my previous questions you were on your way to writing an article :)

What was the wind like on this test? Your previous post convinced me of the value of the OverCover. Are you now doubting it? I've wondered if two small fabric loops sewn to the underside of the tarp, where the lines from the hammock come from the sides, would allow you to pull the tarp down tighter to the hammock.

Dane, I would like to echo Pan. I do not sell quilts but own 2 No Sniveler Longs from Jacks R Better (possibly made by Pan) so I am less biased (maybe). A sleeping bag is harder to get into when you are off the ground. Anything you put underneath you in the hammock, such as pads, can be a real challenge to stay on. A quilt inside the hammock and a quilt underneath the hammock is the best I've experience thus far.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 16:41:08 MST Print View

> 1. I noticed that you did not use the GG 1/8" pad or the space blanket with your recent tests... did you find they really are not needed?


I think space blankets are overrated. I put one under my sleeping bag in the hammock on a cold night and didn't notice any difference in warmth (and the sleeping bag loaded up with moisture). I put one under the hammock on top of the JRB Nest in a recent test, and again didn't notice any difference, even though the next night (when I didn't use the space blanket) had lower temps. I won't carry a space blanket/bag in the future, except as emergency gear for day-hiking.

Yes, I've been sleeping at temps from +10F to +20F with the JRB Nest (plus three layers of clothing) and haven't needed to resort to a pad inside the hammock. In the recent tests, I've had the BMW TorsoLite in the hammock with me (deflated and shoved in a corner) in case I did get cold, but I haven't used it. I suspect the GG 1/8" ThinLight is probably as good or better than the HH UnderPad, but I haven't tried putting it underneath the hammock in the JRB Weather Shield or HH UnderCover yet. Last summer I used the GG ThinLight in the hammock (with no other bottom insulation) around +40F and it was sufficient, but not toasty; it was warm enough at +50F (especially for the weight of 2.5 oz). GossamerGear may add an over-sized 3/8" ThinLight to their collection; that would probably work well in a hammock at +40F.

I'm impressed with the temperature range of the JRB Nest alone. YMMV. I'm hoping for colder weather so I can find my shiver-temp for the Nest. With more hammock experience I may be able to trust having no backup option for winter shelter, but right now I would carry a ground cloth, two sleeping pads (ThinLight + TorsoLite or NightLight), and a shovel. That would give me the option of "going to ground" in the hammock or building a snow shelter if the weather got nasty. Once frozen twice shy, to paraphrase an old saw.


> 2. I am in process (a local seamstress) in converting my TNF Beeline into a quilt for warmer temps, but was also thinking about also converting my 15 degree bag (for shoulder seasons) also into a quilt but am worried that in the colder temps it might not be a good idea, too drafty at those temps, even in a hammock. Any comments on this?


I have nothing but positive things to say about quilts in a hammock. I slept in a down sleeping bag in the hammock and froze because the insulation under me was so compressed that it was useless; wasted weight. Further, it is a real pain to get into and out of a sleeping bag (esp. a mummy bag) when you're swinging in mid-air. The quilt can be shoved from one end of the hammock to the other when you're getting arranged in the hammock, and then simply pulled over and tucked in. I haven't ever found my Ray-Way quilt to be drafty, in the hammock or on the ground. The Draft Stopper(tm) is a great idea. For less than an ounce of nylon it really makes a difference in whether any drafts get under the quilt (more so on the ground than in the hammock, where it's easier to tuck in).

Edited by Otter on 02/23/2006 17:57:50 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UL Hammocking stuff- Ray Way Draft Stoppers on 02/23/2006 17:01:47 MST Print View

Douglas, I went to the "Ray" site to see his "Draft Stopper (TM)" thing. I decided that I didn't want to read that much at this time and tried to "BookMark" the page.

I got a message that I was on a waiting list till they could do a background check. If I was approved they would let me come back.

So you know this was done in fun I do have two of his books, or at least part of both books.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 17:10:58 MST Print View

> What was the wind like on this test? Your previous post convinced me of the value of the OverCover. Are you now doubting it?

Wind was about 10mph, and last night was 20F warmer than my last test. (My wife said, "It's almost balmy out there.") I think the OverCover is more useful when it's a lot colder or windier. I wouldn't use it near or above freezing because it would probably cause too much condensation, and those temps aren't cold enough to freeze your face off inside the hammock.


>I've wondered if two small fabric loops sewn to the underside of the tarp, where the lines from the hammock come from the sides, would allow you to pull the tarp down tighter to the hammock.


I think that's a great idea. I tied the hammock pull-outs to the tarp rings, then staked down the tarp lines. That kept them close, but probably not close enough if it was actually windy. Your idea would also allow the hammock pull-outs to be staked out further.

Edited by Otter on 02/23/2006 18:11:02 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: UL Hammocking stuff- Ray Way Draft Stoppers on 02/23/2006 18:04:59 MST Print View

Bill,
I didn't pay much attention to the complaints from "anonymous" on that other thread. I've had nothing but good experience with Ray-Way service and kits. (It sounded like anonymous was using a broken DNS or something.) Ray has his opinions, for sure, but he also backs them up with big miles living by them. Somebody was ranting a few months ago on Yahoo's hammock forum about Ray, and also "The Cult of Ryan" (Jordan) that we here on BPL all follow. Isn't it nice to know you're part of a cult? ;)

Edited by Otter on 02/23/2006 20:38:54 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 20:03:27 MST Print View

>> Couldn't you have put the UnderPad between the hammock and the Nest[...]
>[...]Next time I set it up I will test whether either or both of these configurations stay sufficiently close to the hammock bottom.


There are quite a few combinations of the JRB Nest, JRB Weather Shield, HH UnderPad, HH UnderCover, and GG 1/8" ThinLight pad. I hope the following list makes sense.

The JRB Nest hung on the JRB Suspension System hugs the hammock bottom nicely. The HH UnderPad hung on its own does not--it doesn't hang closely near the head/shoulders or feet. (To be fair, hanging the UnderPad on its own under the hammock is not an HH-recommended configuration.) The UnderPad does not hug the hammock bottom when hung between the hammock and the Nest--there is an air gap between the hammock and the UnderPad. The UnderPad doesn't hang closely when hung below the Nest.

The GG 1/8" ThinLight pad fits without an air gap when placed between the hammock and the Nest, but it is difficult to keep it in position when entering the hammock. (However, it is also difficult to keep the pad in position when placed inside the hammock.) My wife mentioned she noticed the extra warmth immediately when the ThinLight was placed betweem the hammock and the Nest.

The Nest inside the Weather Shield hangs a little low, so I had to snug the JRB Suspension System up extra tight to remove the air gap between the hammock and the Nest. Placing the UnderPad on top of the Nest in the Weather Shield made an air gap between the hammock and the UnderPad. Instead, placing the UnderPad between the Nest and the Weather Shield allowed the Nest to hug the hammock bottom.

The ThinLight fit without air gap between the hammock and the Nest with the Weather Shield supporting the Nest, but it is much easier to keep in position by placing it between the Nest and the Weather Shield.

The HH UnderCover holds all arrangements of the UnderPad, Nest and ThinLight close to the hammock bottom. However, the UnderCover compresses the Nest. Thus, although I was able to use the Nest/UnderPad combo inside the UnderCover at 0F, this is not as effective as it could be. I won't be using the Nest with the UnderCover in the future.

It appears to me that the optimal bottom insulation configurations are: Nest; ThinLight on Nest; Nest, then optional UnderPad and/or Thinlight, on Weather Shield; and UnderPad and/or ThinLight on UnderCover.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Hammock warmth 3 on 02/23/2006 21:10:49 MST Print View

Douglas, thank you for your informative hammock insulation warmth posts. Please keep up the good work.

Approximately how big are the gaps, at each end, between the HH bottom and the under pad? The connection points for the under pad's bungee cords are on an adjustable prussic. Have you tried putting more tension on the under pad bungee cords to eliminate the gaps?

Edited by richard295 on 02/23/2006 21:21:15 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Hammock warmth 3 on 02/24/2006 19:37:57 MST Print View

>Approximately how big are the gaps, at each end, between the HH bottom and the under pad?


It varies (I'm not sure to which configuration you are referring) but generally 2 to 3 inches. Also, some of the gaps, such as when the UnderPad is hung unsupported below the hammock or Nest, are because the UnderPad tension line attachment points are pulled tight enough to distort it from a flat surface. Thus, tightening the UnderPad ends in these cases doesn't make it hang closer; it just distorts it more. When used with the UnderCover, the UnderCover smooths out those problems by supporting the UnderPad (as HH intended).


> Have you tried putting more tension on the under pad bungee cords to eliminate the gaps?


Not really. Besides the above gap problems where increasing tension doesn't cure the problem, for most of the cases where there is a gap there is a better equivalent configuration. E.g., I didn't bother trying to make the UnderPad fit better inside both the Nest and Weather Shield because placing the UnderPad between the Nest and the Weather Shield is better because the Nest slips into place under the hammock much easier than the UnderPad, and condensation is better handled by having it on the UnderPad (where it can be brushed off) rather than inside the Nest.

Edited by Otter on 02/24/2006 19:39:50 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 4 on 02/24/2006 23:57:49 MST Print View

Since my previous tests had failed to leave me shivering, I decided to try my proposed "summer" (overnight low +35F to +45F) configuration.

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderCover (9.8 oz)
Hennessy Hammock UnderPad (10.7 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest, used as top quilt (20.2 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

Evening temp was +28F, with an overnight low of +25F. There was a 30mph wind that was partly blocked, and it dropped to just a light breeze by 3am.

I wore the same clothing as in the +15F/+10F tests. I'll have to think a bit more about summer clothing because three layers is pretty heavy, but with the Micropuff weighing 13.2 oz and the closest other insulation being a 200-weight fleece vest at 13.4 oz, the Micropuff is still my lightest and most compressible upper-body insulation. I may leave out both the longjohns and the Cocoon pants, and wear my hiking pants to bed for leg warmth, but that will be a big reduction in lower-body insulation. Probably a reasonable risk for summer. (Maybe carry a ThinLight sit pad and put it under my hips at night if needed?)

I slept cold, but not shivery. The JRB Nest was warm enough, big enough, and comfy enough to keep my top-side warm all night. (Yay! That saves over a pound on the Ray-Way quilt, which I made heavier for winter use.) The bottom of my upper torso was cool, but the wind didn't seem to affect heat loss (I could hear the gusts but not feel them). The UnderPad wasn't long enough to cover both my feet and my head (bummer), so I made sure it covered my heels and relied on the FlexAir pillow, Bomber hat and balaclava to insulate my head (it felt sufficient). The worst cold spot was along the entry slit, which made my legs cold, and the discomfort interrupted my sleep. The UnderPad didn't seem to seal well there, and the UnderCover's entry slit is loose so maybe it doesn't hold the UnderPad close. I'm going to have to look at that area more closely with somebody in the hammock. I might need to add snaps or velcro to the UnderCover's entry slit edges.

There was moisture between the UnderPad and the UnderCover again, so clearly it is condensation against the non-breathable fabric. The UnderPad is open-cell foam, but it doesn't appear to actually get soaked; the condensation is on the outside. I staked the tarp down tightly against the hammock. This time there was some condensation on the tarp, and when the gusts rattled the tarp there was a light dusting of cold frost on my face (not unpleasant, though). At one point it felt very close in the hammock and I had a bit of a headache. I flapped the sides of the hammock to get some fresh air inside, and the headache went away. It's possible that the hammock was too closely sealed (the HH OverCover has a porthole in it to promote fresh air exchange). This could be dangerous, so I will make sure I don't stake it quite that close again.

Cold is acceptable; shivery is a bit on the edge. (When you wake up shivering, then stop and fall back asleep, are you warming up or dropping into profound hypothermia? That's a serious question to ask yourself in the middle of the night.) This configuration was meant to keep me cozy and warm at a typical +35F to +45F (which I will have to test in a few months), but it also needs to handle down to +25F. (I'm sure you've all heard the phrase, "Any day of the year..." It's happened to me more than once.) Not necessarily comfortably, but at least you shouldn't have to spend the night doing isometrics. This configuration passed the test.

I'm really surprised that this worked out. I expected to bail half-way through the night, but although I didn't get a good night's sleep, I was able to sleep most of the night. I thought about inserting the ThinLight at 3am, but I figured I wouldn't be carrying it in the summer anyway. Temps lower than +25F aren't likely in my summer hiking, and I figure the shiver point was about 10F lower. Thus, this configuration (4.75 pounds of shelter and sleep gear) should work for me for the full summer season in the high country.

Edited by Otter on 02/25/2006 00:06:03 MST.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Hammock warmth 4 on 02/25/2006 01:10:02 MST Print View

Douglas - Thank you for another very useful post.

I suggest that you repeat this test with a 3 oz Space Emergency Blanket on top of the UnderPad. HH Super Shelter testers in Backpack Gear Test found a very significant increase in warmth by doing this.

If you are lying in the hammock at an angle, like it was designed, your legs should be to the right of the slit and above the UnderPad. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that there was a multi-inch gap between the UnderPad and the bottom of the hammock at both the head and foot area. A Space Emergency Blanket will only reflect radiant heat if there is an air gap. Ideally it needs to be at least an inch. It just acts as a heat conductor if it is touching the bottom of the hammock. I expect that your legs will then be toasty in the same environmental conditions with this 3 oz addition. You shouldn't have to modify the slit for warmth. Hopefully this test will show up soon as your Hammock warmth 5 post.

Edited by richard295 on 02/25/2006 01:35:32 MST.

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Hammock warmth 4 on 02/25/2006 10:22:13 MST Print View

Douglas, thanks again!

That is very encouraging about the JRB Nest. I have the No Sniveller Long and would expect it to preform the same.

I was suspicious that the UnderPad would be too small. Maybe Tom would be willing to sell a long version. The width was good for you though?

The Hennessy web site lists the UnderPad at 6 oz and the Undercover at 8 oz. That's quite a difference from your measurements. I bet yours are right unfortunately.

It is sounding like the JRB Weather Shield (WS) may be a better option than the Undercover. If the UnderCover were made out of the same material as the WS and didn't have the slit. Is the silt needed because of how the UnderCover fits on the hammock?

Your test bringing the tarp down close to the hammock was interesting. It sounds like it works too well. You had 30 mph wind and did not mention it being a problem so I assume the tarp blocked it. I really want to get rid of the OverCover. It seems there must be a way.

Just out of curiosity, which part of the country do you usually hike in in the summer?

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 4 on 02/25/2006 20:17:30 MST Print View

> I suggest that you repeat this test with a 3 oz Space Emergency Blanket on top of the UnderPad.


I haven't noticed much difference with a Space Blanket in prior tests, but I might try again. It wasn't exactly comfortable (the test was meant to fail) so you might guess I'm not in a hurry to sleep cold again. This isn't what I would take if I thought the temps were actually going to be in the 20s. However, I was thinking about trying it again wearing summer hiking clothing, so I could be sure I got really cold :)

I do lie in the hammock at an angle, and the UnderPad was mostly to the right of the slit. I think part of the problem is that the UnderPad wasn't covering all of the hammock slit, and the UnderCover slit was gaping open, which let lots of air come up against the hammock bottom. The hammock slit was the only place that felt really cold, as opposed to just cool. (I'm a side sleeper, so my knees are over and to the left of the hammock slit.) The configurations where there was an air gap were _without_ the UnderCover. With the UnderCover, the UnderPad is held closely against the hammock bottom along its full length.

I think if I were going to carry a Space Blanket at 3 oz, I would be more likely to carry instead the GG ThinLight 1/8" full-length pad at 2.5 oz. That pad has proven its worth several times.

Edited by Otter on 02/25/2006 22:48:20 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock warmth 4 on 02/25/2006 22:46:53 MST Print View

> That is very encouraging about the JRB Nest. I have the No Sniveller Long and would expect it to preform the same.


YMMV, so it's certainly worth testing yourself. But I'm really impressed with the performance of the Nest, and your No Sniveler is built just the same. I wish now I'd spent the next night out after test #3; it went to -10F and I would like to know if the Nest alone would have been sufficient. (The three layers of clothing are also crucial to my overall results.)


> I was suspicious that the UnderPad would be too small. Maybe Tom would be willing to sell a long version. The width was good for you though?


It seems a bit short, but after considering how it is cut and suspended, I'm not sure it could have been made much longer without introducing other problems, such as distorting the ends. (Just a guess.) The width was fine; it came up high enough on both sides, and when side-sleeping width isn't really an issue. It was just long enough for me to work around its 'short'comings by separately insulating my head; you would need to separately insulate your feet as well as your head (non-compressible insulation, such as a sit-pad or boot liners) unless you sleep with your legs drawn up.


> The Hennessy web site lists the UnderPad at 6 oz and the Undercover at 8 oz. That's quite a difference from your measurements. I bet yours are right unfortunately.


The weights came from my Pitney-Bowes digital postal scale. I just double-checked them. My other UnderPad weighs 10.6 oz (I bought two in case I needed to double-up; this was before I decided to get the Nest). The UnderPad stuff sack weighs 0.9 oz; I think the stuff sack might be necessary to keep from damaging the UnderPad (not sure, but that's why HH includes it).


>It is sounding like the JRB Weather Shield (WS) may be a better option than the Undercover. If the UnderCover were made out of the same material as the WS and didn't have the slit. Is the silt needed because of how the UnderCover fits on the hammock?


Yes, it seems to come up fairly high on the sides compared to the Weather Shield, and it's hung to the end of the hammock rather than suspended. I tried moving it over to get in, as you do with the Weather Shield, but it really put the UnderCover side under tension and I was afraid something was going to rip. On the other hand, one good point is that you can use it to suspend other insulation right up to the ends of the hammock. (But I don't plan to use other insulation at this point.) In my opinion the UnderCover works better with the UnderPad because it holds the UnderPad close to the hammock; the UnderPad is open-cell foam and doesn't compress easily. The UnderCover compresses the Nest, while the Weather Shield doesn't. I think the JRB Nest and Weather Shield and the HH UnderPad and UnderCover are well-designed pairs, just different. However, the UnderPad does work well with the Nest and Weather Shield pair, if you need to add more insulation (the GG ThinLight would work well too). Mostly I'm surprised that the UnderCover's slit doesn't seem to close as well as the HH hammock slit. (I'm going to check that out more carefully next time I hang the hammock.) If you only get the Weather Shield, the UnderPad or ThinLight (when used alone inside the Weather Shield) might benefit from a Space Blanket, as Richard suggests. I'll have to try that in a few months when it gets warmer. (One concern with a Space Blanket is that it will cause condensation on the bottom of the hammock, rather than on the UnderCover. I've had this happen before with a Space Blanket.)


> Your test bringing the tarp down close to the hammock was interesting. It sounds like it works too well. You had 30 mph wind and did not mention it being a problem so I assume the tarp blocked it. I really want to get rid of the OverCover. It seems there must be a way.


The tarp definitely blocked the wind; it was still windy when I had the headache. I staked the tarp down very close, and I think I experienced CO2 buildup. In the future I will be sure to stake it down just far enough away to enough to expose some of the mesh (this is why the OverCover has a porthole). As I said before, I think the OverCover is something to use when it gets cold (+10F and below?). I wouldn't use it above freezing, and at this point I'm not certain I'd use it above +10F. I did use it successfully at +15F/+10F, but that doesn't mean it was necessary. The mesh on the hammock handles the frost from the tarp fairly well, but the dew point has been 10F lower than air temp; if it was 100% humidity the condensation on the tarp could really become a problem if you staked it close. You have a down top-quilt, so condensation in the hammock would be more of a concern for you than it is for me. The OverCover was designed for dry, very cold conditions; that's the only time I plan to use it. If the temp inside your hammock is warm enough (about 10F above outside temp is what I have measured) then you wouldn't need to stake the tarp close anyway.


>Just out of curiosity, which part of the country do you usually hike in in the summer?


Washington's Olympic mountains; until recently Hawaii; and now Wyoming.

Edited by Otter on 02/25/2006 23:02:35 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock warmth 5 on 03/01/2006 14:22:26 MST Print View

>which I will have to test in a few months...


We had a record high yesterday (+60F) so I figured the overnight temperature would be warm. It was +42F in the evening, +37F at midnight, and +30F at 2am. Wind was 15-25mph and there were occasional rain showers. Close enough.

I used the "summer" hammock configuration described in my "Hammock warmth 4" post. I staked the tarp far enough away to allow for good ventilation without allowing the wind through. For clothing, I wore what I would likely wear/carry for three-season hiking:

WalMart compression tank-top (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.0 oz)
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Lands End convertible hiking pants (L: 13.2 oz)
DriDucks rain pants (XXL: 4.4 oz) (optional)
Mountain Hardwear Polartec fleece watchcap (L: 1.0 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)

I wanted to use the same upper-body insulation as my previous test so I could focus on the change in lower-body insulation. For summer hiking I would probably swap the WalMart shirt and Patagonia R.5 for an REI CoolMax mesh t-shirt (6.0 oz) or REI MTS midweight t-shirt (7.8 oz) and save a half-pound; I could save an additional 4.5 oz by leaving the zip-off pant legs home.

Last time I tested this configuration (at temps 5-10F colder), my legs were cold even with the BMW Cocoon pants. I was careful to arrange the UnderPad beneath my legs, and checked the UnderCover slit: it appeared to close better this time. My upper body was warm, maybe too warm (I had to open the zips on my upper-body insulation), and my legs and bottom side were comfortable and not too cool. Around 1am I took off the DriDucks pants to see if that made a difference. It wasn't a big difference: I zipped up my R.5 and Micropuff and went back to sleep just as warm as before. There was no condensation on the tarp, and again a small amount of condensation on the bottom of the UnderPad. I didn't feel a chill on my under-side when the wind gusted. I did manage to poke a hole in the UnderPad foam when I was grabbing it through the hammock fabric to pull it up; I will have to be more careful in the future.

I don't think the clothing worn is out of the ordinary for 3-season hiking, so it appears that the 4.75 pounds of sleeping gear is sufficient. I think that compares well to lightweight ground-sleeping gear, at least when I factor in the benefit of a good night's sleep.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock Warmth 6 on 03/09/2006 14:28:56 MST Print View

I spent Monday and Tuesday in the Snowy Range (Medicine Bow National Forest, Wyoming), in winter conditions, ski-packing (AT), off-trail, solo. Destination was Browns Peak (11,722ft). Overnight low was about +15F, wind 40-50mph (trees blocked it down to about 20mph), elevation 10,800ft, and snowing. Here's the sleeping gear:

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under-quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight boxer-briefs (L: 3.0 oz)
Gore-Tex 3-layer full-zip ski pants (L: 20.6 oz)
OR Gorilla Balaclava (M: 3.0 oz, didn't sleep with 0.9 oz nose cover)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Scarpa Laser ski-boot liners (heavy)
Seirus Super Liner gloves (S/M: 1.1 oz)

I woke up sometime in the night and found that I was toasty warm. I didn't even bother going back to sleep for a while because I just wanted to enjoy rocking back and forth, listening to the wind howl outside while I was snug and warm in the hammock. I anticipated a blizzard (and got it) but I left the JRB Weather Shield bottom at home because I didn't expect the JRB Nest to wet out from cold blowing snow. (I don't think it did, although I wish now that I had weighed it after the trip.) I wore my boot liners to bed to dry them out and keep them from freezing, so I didn't bring the down booties I'd worn in the tests. Also in the tests I wore three layers on my lower body: Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs, Duofold longjohns and BMW Cocoon pants. Because the longjohns don't work well with ski boots, I switched to just a single layer of lightweight Capilene with more coverage (boxer-briefs). I brought the BMW Cocoon pants but I didn't need to wear them; the Capilene underwear and Gore-Tex ski pants were sufficient for both day and night. (In the future I probably won't wear long underwear, except in Washington state where shorts over longjohns is the standard hiking uniform ;-)

The only difference between night and day clothing was that I wore SmartWool medium cushion ski socks instead of the PossumDown socks, traded the Patagonia Micropuff for a Montane Aero windshirt, put on REI Elements insulated mittens over the Seirus liners (which shredded with only two days of use), packed away the Ray-Way Bomber hat, added the nose cover to the OR Gorilla Balaclava, and put on Smith ski goggles. The Aero worked perfectly, allowing moisture through (no frost on the inside) while stopping heat loss to the wind. I noticed no drop in skin temperature when I was hit by wind gusts (although I had to brace myself with my poles). The Micropuff did the same in camp, so I had no need for a shell. Adding it all up, the weight of sleep-specific gear and clothing was 6.9 pounds, with a 'wasted' day-only clothing weight of 7 ounces (ski socks and windshirt).

I tied the windward side of the tarp down to a buried ski pole close to the hammock (to block the wind), while the leeward side was tied to a tree branch about 20 degrees from horizontal (to get plenty of fresh air). In the picture below, the JRB Nest has been packed away and the asymmetric hammock guys have been untied. The Hennessy hammock then makes an excellent swing seat, which provides a comfortable place to cook and relax while the hammock back and fly protect from the wind and snow. The lump to the right of the hammock under the fly is a Jacks R Better Jeff's Gear Hammock and Pack Cover, which I used in both of those roles on this trip. The small HH fly covers it sufficiently, and it didn't catch the wind or snow when I clipped the sides to one of the JRB Suspension System cords.

Edited by Otter on 08/10/2011 13:58:50 MDT.

Stephen Parmenter
(parmens) - F - MLife

Locale: OH
Re: Hammock Warmth 6 - bulk on 03/10/2006 07:43:39 MST Print View

Thanks for the report. I have read bout the Jacks R Better system and it sounds great. Your review seems to bear that out. Here is my question for you. How bulky is your entire sleep system? It would seem as if a fairly large volume pack would be required. What size pack do you use?

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Hammock Warmth 6 - bulk on 03/10/2006 12:58:29 MST Print View

> What size pack do you use?


Oh no, now you're going to make me admit to using my Dana Design T-1 pack (7lb 10oz). It is over 1/3 of my base weight, and heavier than my entire winter sleep system! The pack volume is listed as 4600ci/75l, and it was fairly full. (I'm still transitioning to lightweight, and the pack will be the last item to be replaced.)

Here are the volumes of the parts. The HH Ultralight Explorer hammock and tarp and JRB Suspension System (in HH Snake Skins) and the JRB Nest (in its JRB stuff sack) together are 560ci/9.2l. I don't like to compress the down this much, but this isn't unreasonably tight. The addition of the HH UnderCover and UnderPad (270ci/4.4l) and a dry pair of socks makes my complete "summer" sleep system 840ci/13.8l.

The other, and biggest, winter sleep item is the Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D, which is 1150ci/18.8l in the Ray-Way quilt stowbag. I don't like to compress it more than necessary.

The Patagonia Micropuff (campwear as well as sleepwear) is 100ci/1.7l in its stuff sack. The BMW Cocoon pants (carried but unused) are a whopping 330ci/5.5l in the BMW provided (and recommended) SpinSack LITE Ultralight Stuff Sack (Size M); they could be compressed to half this size if you're willing to risk damaging the insulation.

The total winter sleep system volume is 1800ci/30l. I didn't pack things down as tightly as I could, so it probably took up more space than that in the pack.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Hammock Warmth 7 on 03/25/2006 13:50:31 MST Print View

Another overnight trip in the Medicine Bow National Forest (WY), near Rock Creek Point (10,600 ft), snowshoe-packing, off-trail, solo. Overnight low was about +10F and calm. Same sleeping gear as Hammock Warmth 6, except I needed the OR Gorilla Balaclava nose cover (in-hammock temp was about +15F). I forgot the FlexAir pillow, so I made a pillow from my fleece mittens. I brought the Eddie Bauer down booties since I didn't have boot liners.

I was again warm. I am amazed at how well the JRB Nest works. This time I weighed it when I got home, and it had absorbed 0.9 oz of moisture; there was no apparent loss of loft. It might not have absorbed quite that much moisture if I had used the JRB Weather Shield bottom (9.5 oz), but the moisture in the Nest might have been transient rather than accumulated. There was no visible condensation/frost on the inside or outside fabric of the Nest.

I didn't bring the HH Overcover (4.5 oz), although it would have been nice. I staked the HH tarp a few inches from the hammock, but there was still some air moving through (thus only a 5F difference between internal and external temp). If it was windy or colder I would either need the Overcover or complete face cover (add eye mask, 0.3 oz, and dust mask, 0.1 oz). IIRC, the Overcover made at least a 10F difference between internal and external temp.

Edited by Otter on 03/25/2006 13:51:56 MST.

tim peterson
(blueskydaze) - F
ENO Hammocks on 07/23/2006 17:14:37 MDT Print View

I have been loving my ENO Hammock all summer now! It has got to be the single most enjoyable piece of gear i have ever owned...

You got to love those sunny afternoons just laying around!

www.eaglesnestoutfit.com

Francois Berthelot
(franczazou)
long-distance hammock testing on 10/15/2006 10:16:29 MDT Print View

hello! I made a "spear" type hammock with rip-stop nylon for a PCT tru-hike and it worked great! I now sleep in it 6-7 months a year, inside and outside.
I use the same knots as Ryan to tie around the ends except I make an extra loop around the fabric, it prevents catastrophic failure. I use hollow-braided 3/8" poly rope because it's cheap, light-weight and very strong. (lasts around 2 months). Make a loop at one end to go around trees, it flattens and rarely damages the bark.
For a fly I have an ID sil-poncho. I just clip it to the hammock lines with prusiks and a small plastic clip. Once in the hammock I clip a ridgeline with tault-line hitch and cinch it tight.
After using it for about 2000km and more then 200 camping days it never failed me. It gets cold below 40F though, so I sleep on my blue foam pad and use clothing for cold spots.
-Franc

Francois Berthelot
(franczazou)
Here's a picture.. on 10/15/2006 10:19:25 MDT Print View

set-up with sil-poncho

SANDRA GILLESPIE KRAMER
(sandykayak) - F

Locale: South Florida
Re: UL hammock camping on 10/30/2006 16:50:08 MST Print View

Hi, Ryan, tried to send you a PM but you haven't completed the profile.

Do you have Ed Speer's "Hammock Camping" book? Also, he hosts a Hammock Camping forum on yahoo.

sandy in miami

E. A.
(yalacasa) - F

Locale: Cheeseland-Midwest
Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 11/01/2006 18:57:46 MST Print View

Could using the heavier weight (GASP!, sinful...) emergency blankets (i.e. reflective side and red side) as hammock material save weight in winter camping in the long run?
12 ounces

Edited by yalacasa on 11/01/2006 18:58:23 MST.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 11/02/2006 11:58:22 MST Print View

>Could using the heavier weight (GASP!, sinful...) emergency blankets (i.e. reflective side and red side) as hammock material save weight in winter camping in the long run?


A reflective (radiant) heat barrier needs a bit of an air gap between you and it in order to work. If you lay down right on the blanket material you will lose heat by conduction directly to the blanket. The other problem is that this material isn't breathable, so you will accumulate moisture underneath you.

Example: a +27F night in a +15F down sleeping bag. Result: very cold. I then added a space blanket underneath my bag. Result: still very cold and not noticeably warmer. My bag also was slightly damp underneath me in the morning.

If you added a sleeping pad between you and a hammock made from this material it might allow it to reflect some heat back to you, but I'm not sure that would beat using a breathable hammock material with a sleeping pad and space blanket suspended below, so moisture would condense as frost on the pad or the space blanket.

Now that I've found several warm winter hammock solutions, I'm still trying to figure out how to lighten up and (especially) reduce volume.

Edited by Otter on 11/02/2006 12:00:57 MST.

E. A.
(yalacasa) - F

Locale: Cheeseland-Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 11/04/2006 12:04:34 MST Print View

Thanks for the thoughts, still considering hammock camping.

e

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: UL hammock camping on 11/05/2006 00:02:31 MST Print View

>Thanks for the thoughts, still considering hammock camping.


As you can see from my posts in this thread, I'm pretty happy with winter camping with a hammock. The weight may not be as light as possible (i.e., compared to a snow cave or floorless pyramid) but it's easy to ski/snowshoe over to a bunch of trees and have your shelter set up in ten minutes.

A cheap way to try it out is to get a Byer of Maine/Amazonas Moskito Traveller hammock, which can usually be found on-line for under $20. Put a closed-cell foam or inflatable sleeping pad underneath you, and you're set. It's not the easiest thing to arrange the pad, but if you like hammock camping you can switch to an under-slung insulation system. Be sure to sleep at an angle! I have a ruptured disc in my back, but as long as I sleep mostly flat in the hammock I'm fine.

I hiked the Wonderland Trail around Mt. Rainier in mid-September, sharing a tent. It rained most of the time and I had gone fairly light on my sleeping gear (GG ThinLight 1/8" with BMW TorsoLite). It reminded me just how much I dislike sleeping on the ground, even with Excedrin PM and Aleve.

Edited by Otter on 11/05/2006 00:34:41 MST.