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JMT yo-yo with HD camera
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Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
JMT yo-yo with HD camera on 03/10/2009 15:06:06 MDT Print View

Light, but nothing you'd consider UL around here. it includes 81 oz of camera gear, a GPS I would not need, cooking gear big enough for 3 people, etc.

This year it'll be my second time out with my kids on the JMT, this year going Yosemite-Whitney-Yosemite. Nothing super light, but proven sturdy gear with a huge pack that can take over gear the kids can't handle at times.

I've upgraded a few items over last year and to make room for more camera gear.


Gear List

updated on Mar 16, 2009 12:55:34 PM CST - down to 27.1 lbs base weight

Edited by Fishmonger on 03/16/2009 12:59:39 MDT.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Google Spreadsheet Access on 03/10/2009 15:50:41 MDT Print View

Peter,

You'll need to open up access to your spreadsheet.

Message was:
You are signed in as _____@gmail.com, but that email address doesn't have permission to access this spreadsheet.

Edited by jimqpublic on 03/10/2009 15:51:43 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Google Spreadsheet Access on 03/10/2009 17:50:32 MDT Print View

Yup -- can't get in. Maybe you password protected your file?

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
link on 03/10/2009 18:27:18 MDT Print View

sorry, never used this google docs before - link should work now.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: JMT yo-yo with HD camera on 03/12/2009 08:29:05 MDT Print View

Hi Peter,
It's unclear if you are looking to change anything in this list. I mean, it's a solid list and you'll have a great time, but there are some alternatives that will lighten the load. Just not sure if you are looking for suggestions as you ,mentioned that you are happy with the weight.
One eye-catcher is that your pack, fleece jacket, and Goretex jacket weigh about 10 lbs. That's ~30% of your base weight...you can do better then that! ;)
Why an "upgrade" on the Versalite?
Steve

Frank Deland
(rambler)

Locale: On the AT in VA
replacement of fleece Jacket on 03/12/2009 11:32:25 MDT Print View

Fort example to add to Steve's suggestion, The Marmot DriClime is a lightweight fleece liner with a nylon windbreaker shell, size Med., weighs 13 oz., or you could combine a lightweight smart wool sweater and a Golite Wisp wind shirt for less bulk and less weight, and another layer option.
You could also save a little space and weight by changing to a plastic platypus rather than the stiff Nalgene bottle.

Edited by rambler on 03/12/2009 11:35:20 MDT.

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
reducing weight on 03/12/2009 14:34:25 MDT Print View

input like this is good - I've noticed the same about the jacket and other items. A few things just cannot change, such as the pack. I need it, since once we add 8 days of food for 3 people to MY pack, it's going to be in the 50+lbs range and I know this pack can handle it as if it's half the weight. I love it.

The jacket - well, I've been up there in that warm heavy jacket and loved it when I needed it, but 9 days out of ten it stays in the pack. I'm pretty sure I'll bring the Marmot Precip this year which is half the weight and works great, too. Not good this morning when walking my dog at 9 degrees outside wearing the fleece and two layers below, but still tolerable and therefore good enough for the summer.

The cooking gear is also too heavy - I love the stove and the pot, but I'm pretty sure I'll be changing that to a much lighter setup before we head out.

Still looking for Tripod alternatives that really work. We have 6 carbon Fiber trekking poles in the group, but can't seem to figure out how to easily rig that into a decent tripod (camera doesn't have to pan). A few rubber bands and something to put the camera safely on top without spending an hour should be possible to design - would save 2 pounds!

the "upgrade" on the Versalite goes a few days back when there was still a 3 lbs 6 oz North Face bag listed. Versalite is in the mail.

Edited by Fishmonger on 03/12/2009 14:36:17 MDT.

Matthew Parker
(mparker20) - F

Locale: SoCal
Lighter Stove on 03/12/2009 15:00:35 MDT Print View

Peter,
Two years ago I moved to an alcohol stove from a stove similar to yours. Initially I was skeptical due to the fact that I usually hike with two to four others.
What We ended up doing was changing not only the stove but the way we thought about cooking.

I bought a Mini Bull Designs Sketti
and a 1.3L Titanium Pot.
I ditched all plates and bowls and now we all just eat out of the plastic bag that the food heats in We're all family right?
if you did this it looks like you could save about 20 oz and that does not include the decreased weight of the alcohol container compared to your fuel container.

Good Luck!
Matt

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
food cooked in the bag on 03/12/2009 16:20:04 MDT Print View

I don't bring these single dual and quad serving meal bags. They are a) way too expensive (for the handful of meas we use this kind of food, I buy a #10 sized can and put the content into a few zip locks). Much more important is that these meal bags are space hogs in your bear canister. The vacuum packed M0untain House stuff isn't much better, but at least a step in the right direction.

And then we are 3 eaters - 2 serving bag is too small, 4 serving bag is too big... Repacking the bulk cans always works.

But to ditch the plates, we will just eat out of our titanium cups this year, no heavy pot lid/plate and bowl.
Another upgrade would be a lighter pot with a cozy.

I think I will be cutting over a pound off the cooking section.

Joshua Gilbert
(joshcgil2) - F

Locale: Seattle
Re: JMT yo-yo with HD camera/ food on 03/12/2009 16:30:27 MDT Print View

Peter, it might take more logistical planning than you want to put forth at this point, but you could try making freezer bag meals for the family, quick and easy when eating time comes. I've done it pretty easily with ingredients from the grocery. that way you can tailor the size of the meal easily.

Orikaso bowls work well, and are pretty darn light as well.

Are you set on your footwear? Those trangos are pretty honking big boots if you aren't doing any serious crampon work. (dead light if you are, but I imagine that with the younguns you won't be living out any reinhold messner daydreams)

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: JMT yo-yo with HD camera/ food on 03/12/2009 17:09:09 MDT Print View

most of our meals are made from Ramen and Knorr instant meals, kicked up a notch with freeze dried chicken and a few other dry ingredients. However, when you're out there for over 30 days, you gotta have some variety. We're even making burritoes up there. Got 3 months to pack these things and plan it out. Key requirement is that it all has to fit into the bear canisters, cook fast, and taste good to all three in the group, and that means my daughter has to like it...

As for footwear - anywhere off-trail in the Sierras with a pack as big as mine, there's no way I am going to chance it with lighter footwear. I've been up there many times and these are actually the lightest boots I ever used there. I have never had a blister, never had any foot problems, and I never even came close to injuring an ankle.

The Trangos I use are not the "serious crampon work" boots anyway - they could use them if I needed them, but they don't have a rigid shank.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Re: Yo-Yo on JMT with HD Camera on 03/12/2009 17:26:24 MDT Print View

Peter:

I'm no UL'er- but here's my suggestion to cut 3+ pounds:

-7 Dump the TNF T-shirt- Only bring the Icebreaker
-16 Swap the 26 ounce fleece for a lighter 10 ounce 100 weight fleece, or a similar weight UL puffy jacket.
-7 Swap the rain pants for 5 ounce silnylon pants (or 2 ounce ULA Rain Wrap, which will work only if you go to non-waterproof hiking shoes/boots)
-5 Dump the speedos! Wear your zip-offs instead.
-7 Dump the ground sheet. Tent floors are easy to patch.
-3 Swap the Nalgene for a Gatorade or similar bottle.
-2 Dump 2 stakes, swap 4 for lighter models.
-8 Swap the stove for a 3 ounce model.
-2 Swap the knife + mini tool for something less.
-7 Dump the GPS. Don't need no stinkin' GPS in the High Sierra.

Also consider whether you need boots when hiking with trekking poles. Sturdy trail runners or hiking shoes might work for you and save at least 20 ounces. That might also reduce your need for the water shoes.

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Yo-Yo on JMT with HD Camera on 03/12/2009 19:05:14 MDT Print View

-7 Dump the TNF T-shirt- Only bring the Icebreaker

that's my underwear :-) TNF shirt is poly stuff, fast dry, my second layer

-16 Swap the 26 ounce fleece for a lighter 10 ounce 100 weight fleece, or a similar weight UL puffy jacket.

been thinking about that - keep thinking about last summer and how I had to spend a night withtout sleeping bag because the rain soaked everything. Sure came in handy...

-7 Swap the rain pants for 5 ounce silnylon pants (or 2 ounce ULA Rain Wrap, which will work only if you go to non-waterproof hiking shoes/boots)

not sure what these items are - will investigate. Not having had real waterproof pants last year was the reason why I actually bought the precip pants. Not happy with the weight, though.


-5 Dump the speedos! Wear your zip-offs instead.

yeah, that's where my old thinking always takes over "gotta have a spare" - but you're right. I only wore them last year when I washed the other pants.

-7 Dump the ground sheet. Tent floors are easy to patch.

!#$%!$ 500 dollar tent :-) But you're right - other than tree sap, I've never had an issue when using a thin poncho as tent floor in the past, and no holes in that. So it can probably go.

-3 Swap the Nalgene for a Gatorade or similar bottle.

they take a lot of abuse - we're out there for a month+ this year, and I like it. Not sure if I want to go light duty here.

-2 Dump 2 stakes, swap 4 for lighter models.

can dump 2, sure, but how much lighter can they get? Those are already darn light. I hate it when they bend on me and these are pretty tough.

-8 Swap the stove for a 3 ounce model.

I ordered one of those this afternoon alerady :-)

-2 Swap the knife + mini tool for something less.

I have a 1.5oz alternate that may go - the bigger knife is nicer, but I can't recall cutting more with it than some tuna pouches last summer

-7 Dump the GPS. Don't need no stinkin' GPS in the High Sierra.

I don't bring it for navigation. I wouldn't even need maps for the trail, having done it 8 or 9 times now, but the kids need it. It's a motivation tool for them, and it keeps track of the progress we make for post hike stats, etc. It really is fun to see how "off" the map distances really are. This year I'll confirm that the JMT is actually much longer than officially advertised. My guess is that it's at least 225 miles from Yos Valley to Whitney summit.

Also consider whether you need boots when hiking with trekking poles

I'm pretty happy with these boots. One of those things I am not going to downgrade. I prefer the "thrash through it blindly" style of walking in rough terrain. Hey, my first set of boots back in the 80s was about twice the weight! :)

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Yo-Yo on JMT with HD Camera on 03/12/2009 22:56:32 MDT Print View

Re boots

Yeah, I used to wear boots too. Now I wear UL joggers at 12 oz each. On that sort of country too.

But take it one step at a time. I am sure, as you become more comfortable with the UL approach, you will continue to experiment and break old beliefs. Plenty of years to go.

Cheers

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: JMT yo-yo with HD camera on 03/13/2009 03:51:28 MDT Print View

Peter,

You are me, a couple years ago! BTW, how old are the kids, it might help with planning gear.

You can go a lot lighter, but you have to change old ways of thinking... and that is the toughest part!

I used to travel light, even with my Whitney 95 and Lowa Banff boots. My attitude was that you would have to pry them off me!! But I have found that as you lighten the load, more and more things can be replaced. So just consider the input and be flexible in your thinking. I have many of the same items you own, only now they stay in my gear closet. So here is my input for what it is worth or not worth :) and some might be repeats from previous posters. Obviously you probably won't be able to replace everything, even if you wanted to, due to cost.

Baselayer Top - BPL Merino Wool Hoody awesome!

Trekking poles - I just started using these, after 20+ years with a Tracks hiking staff. GG LightTrek 4 @ 3.4 oz for the pair, also double as poles for tarp.

Boots - Salomon XA Pro 3D Ultra Trail Running Shoes at 29.4 oz. I am a cross country hiker type of guy and with a lighter load, these are great and also work as my stream crossing shoes and camp shoes. It is amazing how much better I feel at the end of the day with the weight reduction. Also, you are more nimble... I find that heavy boots actually contribute to ankle twists and other things that heavy boots are supposed to solve... you just have to try them, and I was SKEPTICAL at first!!

Fleece - no, no. I now use either a Patagonia Down Sweater at 11.7 oz or a Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket at 6.1 oz.

Gortex Pants/Jacket - ouch. I have actually owned both Prcip items. Go with a poncho or even DriDucks (oz for jacket & pants) if you are careful.

Beanie - not needed if using BPL Hoody.

Speedo - already discussed.

Sprint Aquatics - use your hiking trail runners.

Other shirts - not needed. You wear your only shirt.

Gregory pack - okay, I have the same one, I love it, and it is in the closet. A ULA Catalyst (for example) weighs 47 oz, holds 75L and can easily handle 30 - 40 lbs, and more for short periods.

Rain Cover - use a double duty poncho/tarp or even a bag liner at 2 oz or less.

Stuff sacks - there are lighter and more expensive ones.

Compression bag - no go.

Pad - Torsolite torso length pad from BPL @ 10oz versus your 24.2, and not sack needed. Takes a little getting used to. After the first couple of nights you get used to lighter, thinner pads.

Tent - you can really get by with a large tarp... but you need to consider the possibility of getting your down bag wet. So this is a long philosophical discussion.

1 Liter Nalgen - Gatoraide bottle @ 1.5 oz or Platypus at .9 oz.

Knife - already discussed. Swiss Army classic at .8 oz.

Stoves, cookware - already discussed. I have moved from a Snow Peak Giga Stove to alcohol... however, on a long trip the Snow Peak is more efficient, and this is probably a push.

Towel - just wear a bandana at .9 oz and it is more versatile.

Razor? nah, just grow a beard.

Deet - you can get by with a mini-dropper bottle on this trip @ .5 oz.

Emergency Blanket - I carried the same one for 30 years and never used it. It is in the junk drawer now, and one of these days will use it as a ground sheet, until it fails.

Camera gear - sigh... this is such a personal thing. Could you get by with just a digital camera with several SD cards? Mine takes movies, but I have never tried it. To be honest, other than snapshots, I find cameras a pain and they suck up lots of time. Years ago I used to take a heavey SLR. I know you want to capture an epic trip with the kids, and that is a good thing, but how good do you want the quality to be? I like pictures, and more importantly like to reminise.

Tripod... you might look at the gorilla pods... need to wrap them around something, but lightweight.

You could easily get your base weight under 20 lbs, switch to trail runners and enjoy the trip more.

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
responses on 03/13/2009 10:26:18 MDT Print View

You are me, a couple years ago! BTW, how old are the kids, it might help with planning gear.

they are 11 this year and they carry at the most a pot or a piece of the tent beyond their own bags, clothes and when we're late in the hike a Bearikade weekender each with the lightest part of our food load between Whitney and MuirTrail Ranch. That section of the trail, I think they'll have clothes and the food canister, I have everything else.

Their load is actually the much more important part to optimize than mine, but the more I can shave off my load, the more of their stuff I can carry.


You can go a lot lighter, but you have to change old ways of thinking... and that is the toughest part!

my old way of thinking was Ultra Light - at least comapred to what others were doing in the 1980s. I did the Muir Trail with a 20 pound pack when most others carried 70. The thing is, I have grown to like certain gear items and appreciate how they work when I actually do need them. For example the fleece jacket, which works when wet, which makes agreat pillow and generally is my clothing in the am and pm. Hard to beat the comfort it provides.

Boots are similar story, but add a safety margin I am not willing to sacrifice on this trip. Right now I can still keep up or outpace my kids, even with 50 pounds on me, so saving weight is fine, but safety comes first.

The hike is ultra-long for 11-year-olds and it has to have some moments of comfort. The tent for example is a must - nothing beats a "home" that feels like a little house for them, especially with a hot cup of cocoa. Amazing how such little things can become highlights of the day.

Same with cooking and eating well. Gummi bears and Sharkies can make a day! There is a lot of stuff I have in the gear bin that isn't going this year, while others on the trail would think I'm nuts not to have them- e.g. bear spray and water filter.

I used to travel light, even with my Whitney 95 and Lowa Banff boots. My attitude was that you would have to pry them off me!! But I have found that as you lighten the load, more and more things can be replaced. So just consider the input and be flexible in your thinking. I have many of the same items you own, only now they stay in my gear closet. So here is my input for what it is worth or not worth :) and some might be repeats from previous posters. Obviously you probably won't be able to replace everything, even if you wanted to, due to cost.

I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't interested in input. Hearing what others would do does allow me to challenge everything once over. Compared to last year, I think I am already 5 pounds down, and may lose another one or two (and that is after adding the tripod)

Ultra-Light isn't the goal - I just want to refine what I know works, but could work better. The real challenge is to get the kids' loads down and I think I am on the right path there with new UL packs and lighter sleeping bags, lighter clothes wherever I can find them in their size.

A few years from now, the boy may want to go for a PCT through hike (he already indicated), and I may just take him up on it. Given the restrictions on time available due to job, it would have to be a very fast hike, and at that time we're probably going to shed all the old habits and go extremely light (it would have to be southbound 10-11 weeks, start in early to mid June, but that is another story)


Baselayer Top - BPL Merino Wool Hoody awesome!

$100... ouch. I'll keep it on the wish list.

Trekking poles - I just started using these, after 20+ years with a Tracks hiking staff. GG LightTrek 4 @ 3.4 oz for the pair, also double as poles for tarp.

am quite happy with the REI - no comparison though, but I like that they fold up, since we don't use them all the time. There's a guy here in town who is selling the GG carbon poles right now - I was looking at these and may get them before the hike and try them during our warmups. Probably would work. I will lose the straps from my REIs and drop an ounce or two anyway, so the weight on those will change even if I don't go with the GG poles.

Boots - Salomon XA Pro 3D Ultra Trail Running Shoes at 29.4 oz. I am a cross country hiker type of guy and with a lighter load, these are great and also work as my stream crossing shoes and camp shoes. It is amazing how much better I feel at the end of the day with the weight reduction.

and how do they work on fist to football sized rough boulders? We aren't just hiking on the Muir Trail, but take quite a few alternate routes that can be cross country. I am definitely not ready to try this on a hike like this year's trip. Perhaps in the future on shorter trips, so I get a sense of how this works before hitting the PCT or similar challenge.

Fleece - no, no. I now use either a Patagonia Down Sweater at 11.7 oz or a Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket at 6.1 oz.

I know last year I would have not liked a down thermal layer, but if there is any place where they work well, it's probably the Sierras. I have been looking at down sweaters and may still go for one if I can find a solution for my sleeping pillow, which has been my fleece. I like a thick tall pillow for when I sleep on my side (yeah, I know, I should just change my habits :-))


Gortex Pants/Jacket - ouch. I have actually owned both Prcip items. Go with a poncho or even DriDucks (oz for jacket & pants) if you are careful.

I never liked ponchos when I actually needed them. I've used Goretex and Ponchos alternating and I keep going back to Goretex. Also works as a thermal layer when your weather doesn't live up to Sierra textbook. I like the rain gear to breathe somewhat and am willing to sacrifice some weight for gear that has performed for me in the past. Don't mind a few ounces if it keeps me dry when it matters.

Sprint Aquatics - use your hiking trail runners.

but I'm not downgrading the boots, so that's as light as I can go on the water crossings. Hey, last year my flip-flops were three times the weight so I was thinking I was doing good here :-)


Other shirts - not needed. You wear your only shirt.

well, that is an option, but I do like to wash them on occasion on a month+ trip. Probably can still do that, just not at camp, but in the middle of a hot day and just wear it dry.

Gregory pack - okay, I have the same one, I love it, and it is in the closet. A ULA Catalyst (for example) weighs 47 oz, holds 75L and can easily handle 30 - 40 lbs, and more for short periods.

30-40 is normal on this trip, and it will be up to 50 at times when we get the 8-day food load packed, especially should I carry more than one bear canister (reason for the sleeping bag compression bag - need room down there for a second canister)

Rain Cover - use a double duty poncho/tarp or even a bag liner at 2 oz or less.

well, maybe all the ponchois I used to have were poorly designed (that goes back to 1983 German Military and their HEAVY fully waterproof ponchos) - I remember how my down bag was dripping wet last year in spite of the poncho over the pack. Another reason for the "compression bag" below is that I want anotehr layer of water protection on that down bag.

Stuff sacks - there are lighter and more expensive ones.

aren't there always? :-)

Pad - Torsolite torso length pad from BPL @ 10oz versus your 24.2, and not sack needed. Takes a little getting used to. After the first couple of nights you get used to lighter, thinner pads.

I just can't see myself sleeping on anything shorter than my body. Tried it, even super thin closed cell foam 3/4 length. Perhaps I'll give it another shot this year, test it in camp nights before the hike and decide then.

Tent - you can really get by with a large tarp... but you need to consider the possibility of getting your down bag wet. So this is a long philosophical discussion.

see above - tent is home - plus, the few 3-person tarp tents out there don't really save much weight over what I have. I'd do it if I was solo (actually, a bivy is fine in the Sierras for me by myself), but not with the kids.

1 Liter Nalgen - Gatoraide bottle @ 1.5 oz or Platypus at .9 oz.

may do a gatorade bottle - have to do some long term durability testing first. Paltypus isn't wide mouth and we do a lot of mixing stuff. we used the Nalgenes last year because we brought the MSR Hyperflow filter that screws right on. Not taking that any longer, so the bottle can change. Like widemouth for drink mixes.

Stoves, cookware - already discussed. I have moved from a Snow Peak Giga Stove to alcohol... however, on a long trip the Snow Peak is more efficient, and this is probably a push.

8+ days between resupply, cooking for 3 - no issues with propane/butane. I am looking at getting the Evernew 1.3L pot with cozy to shave off a few ounces on the cooking gear and save fuel. Have never used a cozy, but I know the blanket around my water heater works wonders, so I guess this may just be worth doing to save fuel/weight on the long legs.


Towel - just wear a bandana at .9 oz and it is more versatile.

don't like bandanas anymore (once the hair on top of the head went thin, I switched to hats - wearing glasses I also hate the glare without a hat.

Razor? nah, just grow a beard.

did that last year - don't like the feel of it and figure that in the big picture, a razor probably can also double as a tool for whatever may need slicing and dicing


Deet - you can get by with a mini-dropper bottle on this trip @ .5 oz.

not for 3 people in June/July. Used up the REI sized bottle in less than 14 days last year. Late June into mid July is the worst time for skeeters up there. They sure can mess up your day. We're doing the Permethrin thing again, so that may help when we wear clothes covering our bodies. Didn't see to do anything last year, but then we used US military stuff, not the (less potent) consumer stuff. Maybe the stuff we got was expired, but the bugs ignored it.


Emergency Blanket - I carried the same one for 30 years and never used it. It is in the junk drawer now, and one of these days will use it as a ground sheet, until it fails.




'nuff said

Camera gear - sigh... this is such a personal thing. Could you get by with just a digital camera with several SD cards? Mine takes movies, but I have never tried it. To be honest, other than snapshots, I find cameras a pain and they suck up lots of time. Years ago I used to take a heavey SLR. I know you want to capture an epic trip with the kids, and that is a good thing, but how good do you want the quality to be? I like pictures, and more importantly like to reminise.


I've hiked the place without camera altogether at least twice. Not the point this year. a) I've made a living as a photographer for many years, and it's in my nature to want to record things I see, b) this is for my kids, c) I now work with video for a living, so I'm not really going out on a limb here and will back some crappy footage I'll never look at again. We may leave the point-and-shoot behind, but my daughter may insist to bring it.

As a former still photographer, I used to despise video for these kinds of things (mountains don't move - who needs video?). But that's not what the camera is all about for this trip. It's for the kids and as a document of their achievement, something they'll treasure forever.

Muir Pass '08 Scenes

Making cookies at Reds Meadows '08

There will be an edited "feature length" clip from last year's hike before we head out again.

Tripod... you might look at the gorilla pods... need to wrap them around something, but lightweight.


maybe if I can find a way to wrap them around a tripod made of hiking poles, because 9 times out of 10, there's nothing there to wrap the gorilla thing around where you want to put the camera. Tried to do that last year and most of the time ended up putting the camera on a single hiking pole to semi-stabilize it mono-pod style, but for video, that just doesn't cut it. There just aren't enough trees on this trail where you need them.

You could easily get your base weight under 20 lbs, switch to trail runners and enjoy the trip more.

I know it's possible, and if I left the camera behind, I'd be pretty darn close to that. I'll update the spreadsheet later today, and it probably will drop a few ounces where I plan to make additional changes.

I sure hope the Ursack gets approved this spring, because I am holding out on getting two more Bearikades for the kids to haul. With the Ursack, I could get their aluminum bag liners wrapped around my Bearikade during the day and if they packed all the light fluffy items that don't fit into my can, it would really cut the weight on their packs during the two segments where we need the extra food space. Again, it's all about the kids having a good time. Too bad that there's hardly any really good gear available in their size.

Bottom line is to make it as comfortable as possible for them. I know I can do this hike even with a 60 pound pack, but obviously, if I save weight I can carry more of their stuff, so they benefit.

Edited by Fishmonger on 03/13/2009 10:28:43 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: responses on 03/13/2009 12:06:14 MDT Print View

Peter,

My hat is off to you! Two 11 year olds on a trip of this magnitude is quite an undertaking. Yes, I would 'suffer' with a heavier load. I have done trips when my kids were even younger and yes, Gummie Bears, Hot Wheels and Cabbage Patch dolls were required gear.

BTW, when I click on your links, I get blank rectangles. Waited for the site to start streaming, but nothing happened.

Discussion for another trip - "and how do they work on fist to football sized rough boulders? We aren't just hiking on the Muir Trail, but take quite a few alternate routes that can be cross country. I am definitely not ready to try this on a hike like this year's trip. Perhaps in the future on shorter trips, so I get a sense of how this works before hitting the PCT or similar challenge"

Trail runners require a light pack. Boots are porpotional to the load carried. I used to think that backpacking in jogging shoes was an act of the criminally insane. But now I am an advocate. It is easier to hike longer and quicker. Easier to go through rough spots. You become more sure-footed. You feel those potential twists and slips before they can happen. Boulders and large rocks... piece of cake!

Rocky trail

I am really enjoying this thread. Since you are taking all that camera gear, I hope you post lots of pictures for us to see!

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
the video links on 03/13/2009 12:16:06 MDT Print View

the video pages don't load? black html with Flash player on it, requires the latest Flash plugin (h.264 variable rate streaming, and quite a bit of bandwidth). If the video loads and doesn't play smoothly, you should be able to throttle it back to a bandwidth that works, using the +/- buttons. But I guess your Flash version is not up to date.

we carried two teddy bears last year, and I hear we are bringing a different pair along this time to allow them to see their cousins...

as for pictures - before we leave this year, there will be a fully edited video from 2008, which will be totally outdone by what I hope to get out of 2009.

Here's all the raw footage from 2009, in 1500kbps in Microsoft Silverlight (excuse the lack of consistency, but I do streaming media for a living, so I play with all kinds of formats)

5 hours of 2008 video jump to tape 2 on top menu, clip #41 for the beginning of the 2008 JMT


re shoes and weight - if I dropped those 20 pounds of extra food I am packing on my body before we even started, I probably could work this out somehow, but for 14 days I am going to pack more than I should :-)

Edited by Fishmonger on 03/13/2009 12:22:46 MDT.

Peter Burke
(Fishmonger) - F

Locale: Midwest
fleece or no fleece on 03/13/2009 16:29:30 MDT Print View

I thought it over - I think I'll get me an UL down layer and leave the fat fleece jacket behind. Like the hooded Montbell UL, but the Western Mountaineering is sweet, too - missed out on one on ebay a few days ago.

So how fireproof are those ultra light down deals? My son loves camp fires, so we have these things going wherever it's legal at night. Don't really want to end up with a ton of embers melting vent holes into my jacket.

updated my gear list link on top, but it doesn't reflect this latest change of mind yet.

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: fleece or no fleece on 03/13/2009 16:39:54 MDT Print View

> So how fireproof are those ultra light down deals?

Not at all fireproof. Embers will melt holes easily.