I finally got my hands on a Platypus CleanStream replacement cartridge to play with.

After making a very light (but not effective enough) gravity filter in THIS POST I decided that I would sacrifice a little weight for a more effective filter.

I just swapped out the Frontier Pro with the Platypus CleanStream filter.



Works the same way... just connect your drinking tube to it and let it go. So far so good.

Here's a quick comparison:



The Platypus filter has a hose nipple at either end. The blue covering is a rubber material similar to the orange stuff on
the Aquamira. The fins on both ends that protect the hose nipples are kinda "squishy".

They are about the same length, however the Aquamira filter would normally have the cap and bite valve
removed, making it a little shorter.

Platypus: 4.1oz rated at 1500 liters filters 99.9999% of bacteria and protozoa down to 0.2 microns flow rate 4 liters / 2.5 min
Aquamira: 2.2oz rated at 190 liters filters 99.9% giardia & cryptosporidium down to 3.0 microns flow rate unknown but slow

So this means it should fill the bottles WAY faster and you won't need to treat the water for bacteria, and should last MUCH longer.
Should bring entire gravity filter kit to about 5.5-6 oz which is still slightly less than my Katadyn mini, faster, and much less work.

In practice, the CleanStream seems to take about 5-6 min for a gallon. I still have a hose barb sticking up inside the water bag so that there is room for silt to settle. Also put one of the little fiber-fill type pre-filters from the Frontier Pro inside the hose barb fitting on the bag.

It weighs in at about 7oz wet and I shouldn't have to carry Aquamira to treat the water, but would carry a little as a backup until I get a chance for further testing.

Edited by Thangfish on 02/07/2009 10:18:36 MST.

There are serious viruses that even the 0.2 micron filter won't take out. The EPA recommended 2 drops of bleach per liter in your feeder bag will take care of the viruses and also retard growth of various flora in your filter. If you don't like the taste of chlorine, you can add yet another (charcoal) filter to your setup.

Thanks for posting the flow rate for the filter. I've been curious if the manufacturer's data were honest.

As far as I know, it's not possible to filter viruses with a commonly available consumer type filter.

Sawyer makes a 0.02 micron filter they claim will filter viruses. That's right, 0.02 micron not 0.2 micron.

It is fairly costly, (somewhere between $100 and $200) which is why I suggested you add the EPA recommended 2 drops of chlorine to your dirty water instead. It will kill the viruses so you don't need to use the expensive filter. You're platy filter will remove the things the chlorine doesn't kill effectively.

If you don't like the chlorine taste, you can get a cheap charcoal filter which you can install below your platy filter to remove the chlorine.

Edited by herman666 on 02/10/2009 11:23:40 MST.

Check into the known contaminants in your hiking area. Viruses are not known as problems in many areas.

Problems come and go. Unless there is an ongoing monitoring program, there's no way of knowing what's in the water.

If you elect to take the risk of drinking untreated water, fine. If you don't, what I previously recommended will significantly reduce your risk of getting sick.

I was under the impression the Frontier Pro contains charcoal. Is it a fact that the platy one does not?

Also as stated already, neither seem to be a 'one product solution'

Edited by Lyrrad on 02/11/2009 09:14:05 MST.

You are correct. The frontier pro contains charcoal, the platy does not. If the Pro had a smaller pored filter, it would be an excellent filter solution. Since it doesn't, I made up my filter from a Sawyer 0.1 micron filter followed by a Katadyn charcoal cartridge. Both purchased from REI.

Sawyer is guaranteeing their filter for life now by the way.

When I get home, I'll post a photo of my filter. It is very similar to the one that's the subject of this thread except of course, it has the additional charcoal filter.

Here's the promised photo of my filter setup. At 9.2 oz, it's a little heavy, but still quite a bit lighter than my miniworks which is a 0.2 micron filter with a charcoal after filter.

The setup shown uses a platypus 2 liter dirty water bag with a side exit that allows for heavier things like sediment to settle out. The black canister is the Sawyer 0.1 micron filter. The gray canister is a katadyn charcoal filter that removes chlorine and many other dissolved contaminants that get past mechanical filters.

I also installed a platypus inline valve after the charcoal filter and a fitting that lets me plug the filter directly into my nalgene hydration bladder.

This filter is slower than the miniworks, but I don't mind since I don't have to pump, I can tend to something else.

> Sawyer is guaranteeing their filter for life now by the way.

So what happens when it eventually clogs?
Do they replace it free??

1. So far as I know, you can backwash the filter to restore it.
2. I strongly suspect the in-line Sawyer filter is also "vulnerable" to the same risk of cold as the MSR Hyperflow...that is that the filter elements , if frozen, are permanently damaged and non-functional thereafter. Anyone have first-hand knowledge of this?

> > Sawyer is guaranteeing their filter for life now by the way.
> So what happens when it eventually clogs?
> Do they replace it free??

Maybe they declare that it has reached its end of life?

Cheers

The Sawyer filter, (and the platy, and most filters for that matter) will be damaged by freezing. Damage by freezing isn't covered by the warranty. I'd say if you're expecting cold temperatures, put your filter in a ziplock bag and carry it inside your jacket.

When the filter clogs, you backflush it.

These and other questions about the Sawyer filter are answered at www.sawyerproducts.com.

Edited by herman666 on 02/12/2009 09:15:02 MST.

Ok, I found it.

BTW, I tried very hard to research these filters and this company (they are only a distributor, I forget the manufacturer, but I posted it somewhere on here I think) a couple of years ago and found almost nothing... hadn't looked lately.

Anyway, it appears that these are indeed lifetime filters.

Along with the normal assurances for manufacturing flaws, they guarantee them for life (which I guess means the life of the company?).

From the Sawyer web site:

"All of the Sawyer® water filters and purifiers come with a MILLION GALLON GUARANTEE!"

Back flushing must be very efficient in this design (which appears to be the same technology as the Clean Stream and other MSR stuff).

I'm ordering one to test. Thanks for the heads up, Herman. How difficult is the back flushing, and is full flow restored?

Edited by Thangfish on 02/12/2009 17:44:51 MST.

>How difficult is the back flushing, and is full flow >restored?

Chris,

Sawyer sells an attachment for back-flushing from a faucet. As far as I can tell, flow is completely restored. I've never back-flushed on the trail, but I've never heard about any difficulty. Also, the water sources on my hikes are pretty clear. When I used the MSR MiniWorks filter, the element only needed cleaning about once a year.

Which filter did you order? The 0.1 or the 0.01 micron filter.

H

> Which filter did you order? The 0.1 or the 0.01 micron filter.

The .1

Hello:

I have a very similar set up on my platy : no pre-filter.

the attachment that comes with the filter works wonderfully.

only complaint I have is that the filter needs to be "primed" (for lack of a better word) before it flows well. It's pretty hard to suck water into the filter unless you already have water in the filter. Once you get some water in there it flows really well. I keep my hose dangling, and sip whenever I'm thirsty.

the filter rides on my Blast's shoulder strap.

I've been looking over a bunch of different posts about gravity filters lately, trying to decide which one to buy or build.

I purchased a frontier pro and some chlorine tablets, thinking I was going to go that route and then I saw this thread and learned about the sawyer and platypus filters, both of which filter to a much smaller size than the frontier pro can. Then I saw the sawyer 0.02 micron filter which can even filter viruses.

So that got me thinking. I'd like to find the ideal balance (for me) between minimizing weight and maintaining a high standard of filtration. I've been using a first need purifier (made by general ecology) for years with exceptional results. My only complaint has always been that it's a bit heavier than i would like (at about 16 oz.).

But a few moments ago I had an epiphany. The first need purifier has a gravity feed option. You're supposed to feed the dirty water through the pump still but you might be able to circumvent the pump and install the purifier cartridge inline. You may have to prime it somehow to begin the flow of water.

I'm not sure if it will work or what challenges might arise but I think I'm going to go home and try it. I believe the cartridges by themselves weigh about 5-6 oz. which would put it in the same ballpark as some of these other gravity filters but with the added benefit of it still being a chemical-free purifier.

If it works, i'll post some photos showing the end result. Of course, if any of you have already tried this, perhaps you can save me the wasted time...

"I believe the cartridges by themselves weigh about 5-6 oz. which would put it in the same ballpark as some of these other gravity filters but with the added benefit of it still being a chemical-free purifier."

Don't we wish! The First Need purifier core weighs 10 oz. dry -- and it's still fairly bulky. The First Need will do everything that a Sawyer can do -- plus improve water taste because it incorporates a carbon core that the Sawyer lacks. But the First Need requires quite a bit more sucking effort!

Due to its bulk and the sucking effort required, I opted to stick with my chlorine/Frontier Pro combo. YMMV.

Edited by ben2world on 03/30/2009 19:05:19 MDT.

Nick, the First Need filter will work as a gravity system. If you read the instruction pamphlet it shows how, but they have it go throw the pump. First Need

I just omitted the pump and hung the system and it works great- I went through the whole Bowron Lake circuit (70 mile canoe trip) using it that way and had no problems. I also used it this way for 10 years when I had time in camp to hang a bag. Of course all of this was before my light weight days
There are lighter weight systems out there but none will filter/purify better.
I don't use it any more because of the weight and high cost of new cartridges.

Edited by bestbuilder on 03/30/2009 19:23:43 MDT.

anyone know how much the sawyer .02 micron filter weighs without any of the adapters? the whole bucket kit, minus the bucket weighs 18oz according to the REI page for it...

I put together the first need gravity purifier by putting the purifier cartridge inline between two bladders/hoses. It worked fine but was a little slower than I thought it would be. You really had to "prime" the setup to get it to start pulling water through the cartridge and even then it seemed to be flowing at a rate of only about 1L/5 mins... maybe even slower. It would probably be fine, it was just slower than I expected and the priming work was more than I expected.

Ben, you might be right about the weight of the first need cartridges. I didn't weigh it, my 5-6 oz figure came off a website that sells the replacement cartridges. I haven't verified it one way or the other.

I sent an email to the folks at Sawyer asking them about the 0.02 micron purifier. They said the purifier cartridge should be able to be worked into a gravity system. They also said purifier cartridge itself weighs "a little over 3 oz." They don't sell the cartridges by themselves so the cheapest means to get it seems to be either the bucket system or an older product of theirs (SP135) which is a bottle purification kit (it looks like a drink bottle, the cartridge and some hose). i don't know if the bottle system is still available.

If you want a chemical-free purification system and don't mind spending a little bit more up front, this might be worth looking into.

Chris:

If you are absolutely sure that wherever you go, all your water sources will be free of viruses and bad taste -- then indeed Clear Stream is all you need. No more fussing with chemicals.

OTOH, reading a few posts below... if you find yourself supplementing your Clear Stream with a few drops of chlorine -- then the Frontier Pro makes much more sense than the Clear Stream! The smaller and lighter FP's built-in carbon element will remove all traces of chlorine (and other bad taste in the water as well) -- something the Clear Stream can't do.

Tad, what kind of flow rate were you getting with that First Need gravity system?

I tried this several different ways with a barely used cartridge (Used for 3 days with clear water) and was unable to get a faster flow rate than 1L / 10mins timed with a stopwatch. I gave up and just decided to take the pump too.

Nick:

I've written about this before so this may be a repeat to you... but just in case it isn't...

I've tried the Sawyer before and it's too bad the unit -- like the Clear Stream -- lacks a carbon element to deal with potentially bad water taste. But the real show stopper for me is the Sawyer's need to be primed prior to use. Once primed, the Sawyer performs beautifully -- but once the core is dry (say when stored in-between trips) -- it needs to be primed again -- using the rubber faucet attachment. Manual priming (squeezing water through from a bladder for example) doesn't quite work -- not nearly as well as using the force of a kitchen or campground faucet.

the sawyer or the first need needs priming? hmm... I don't mind the chemicals, but i've been tossing around the idea of a gravity feed system for awhile since the girlfriend would prefer a filter of some sort... I like the idea of the .02 micron filtration at 3oz for the filter element, but if I have to prime it?... or just get water in the filter element before leaving on a trip? I didn't see a mention of that in the information section for the .02 micron filter or gravity feed setup.

Edited by rooinater on 03/31/2009 12:06:20 MDT.

We've got a sawyer sp120 hooked up to a ULA Amigo and all we have to do to prime is fill the bag with water and suck on the hose. We used it on 3 trips last summer and never had any trouble.

David:

I have no experience with the 120, but it is a different animal -- a filter -- and not a purifier.

As mentioned, when I tested out the Sawyer purifier at home -- after priming with the supplied rubber cup attached to my kitchen faucet -- water flow was quite good. But out in the field -- because I had failed to prime prior to my trip -- the output was absolutely miserable.

After my trip, when talking to Sawyer customer service, the lady was emphatic that the purifier must be primed with a faucet every time it dries up (i.e. when stored between use). When asked, she even said the unit will NOT prime properly by sucking or manually pushing through a bladder of water. It needed the force of a faucet, so she said.

I didn't much like the idea of starting every trip with a wet filter/purifier -- so I quickly sold mine. I did not, however, try to disprove the Sawyer lady by sucking on the purifier. Maybe a current owner of a Sawyer 125 purifier can give that a try and report back?

Edited by ben2world on 03/31/2009 14:22:59 MDT.

Today I made one of these using an AGG 1 gallon water bag, two hardware store plastic hose fittings, some tubing, and a Frontier Pro filter. I stripped the frontier of the plastic lid, the rubber outside, and the bite valve - this removed over 25% of it's weight (.6 oz).

I have 30" of hose from the bag to the filter, then I remove my bite valve from my 1.8L hoser and hook the hydration hose to the filter. This makes a rather long hose length of over 6' total (with the filter in the middle). The longer hose helps keep the flow rate of the Frontier Pro up.

Filter = 1.4 oz
Attachments = 0.5 oz
30" Rubber Hose = 1 oz
AGG Bag = 0.6 oz

Total = 3.5 oz

Tested flow Rate = .6L / min

Water will be pre-treated with tablets. One question, can you filter water before the 15 minute period is up, or does the charcoal and such work against the tablets?

I visited the sawyer web site and located their manuals. The manual for the 0.1 micron filter does not mention priming. The manual for the 0.02 micron filter says priming is required.

I've taken my 0.1 into the field dry and it worked ok. It appeared to be slow, but since I was doing other things while it filtered, I didn't care.

In any event, it didn't take more than a few minutes to fill my 3 liter hydration bladder.

Edited by herman666 on 04/01/2009 10:10:31 MDT.

I use the Sawyer purifier (0.02 micron virus removal) and it definitely needs to be primed at home by hooking it up to a faucet before every trip.

My ULA amigo gravity bag plus the Sawyer purifier, primed and full of water weigh a total of 14.9 oz. I know ... that's heavy so you gotta like pure water to carry it but it does work great for stagnant swamp water in Florida.

For the taste removal component, I made a small bag from noseeum netting and put 1 oz of aquarium charcoal in it. I keep this in my water bottle.

Edited by mad777 on 04/01/2009 11:18:10 MDT.

Aaron, I really don't remember the flow rates. I never worried about it much because I would just hang it on a branch and go about my business. I know it wasn't fast, in fact it was probably slow, but even if it took a while, I wasn't bothered because I would use it for my future water needs and would finish up my existing water while I was waiting (cooking, etc.)
If you use the stuff sack that came with the kit for a gravity bag (it is designed with a hole for this and even has the fittings for it)and need to "prime" it, I just grab the bag and close the top (like a plastic bag) and put a little pressure on the bag to increase the flow. This seemed to work for me, YMMV.
I haven't use this for about 5 years so its been a while.
I now keep it in my 72 hour kit for emergencies. After this thread I tried it out again with the pump. I had water coming out the sides of the pump when I would pump it. I guess the "O" rings need replacing or some lubrication. After 15 years the innards might need a little maintenance.

I emailed Aquamira with the question I had asked above - can I plop in the tablets wait for them to dissolve, then start filtering immediately to my platty with the filter in gravity mode?

They say: "We actually recommend this method you just described. The filter will not deactivate the CLO2."

This should mean only 5 minutes at the water source to fill my 1.8L bladder if you include setup and take down, and then keep on trucking and start drinking 10 minutes down the trail without the added resistance of pulling through the Frontier (which I didn't care for in my testing).

Edited by mn-backpacker on 04/01/2009 18:19:00 MDT.

Dan:

The great selling point for CLO2 tablets is that they can treat protozoa (long treatment time notwithstanding) -- something bleach and iodine can't match.

But if you're using the FP filter to block protozoa, clarify water and improve taste -- and thus relying on the CLO2 tablets to kill viruses and bacteria only -- then why not save the $13 and just use household bleach -- which costs around 99 cents for a whole gallon at discount stores (you only need 6 drops per quart)? CDC, Red Cross, etc. all advise using bleach to treat suspect water.

I am assuming that if the 3-micron filter blocks the taste of CLO2 but doesn't hinder the effectiveness of the chemicals themselves, then most likely it does the same with chlorine

Edited by ben2world on 04/01/2009 18:46:11 MDT.

Ben,

Thanks for the tip - I'm going to think about that one...

For a pre-filter in my water bag, I snatched one from my Katadyn Hiker, which is 130 microns. It fit in pretty easy, and only weighs 0.125 ounces:

Edited by mn-backpacker on 04/02/2009 09:47:46 MDT.

Chris Chastian wrote:
> Aquamira: 2.2oz rated at 190 liters

Being a newbie, does this mean you need to buy a new one after this amount?

Michael - Yes.

Is it simply because the charcoal has lost it's effectiveness or that it can no longer be backflushed effectively to get a decent flow?

Both are valid reasons, but I expect that the decreasing flow rate will entice you to ditch it before the listed lifespan is reached.

Hey all, thought I'd share my new sawyer zero two setup with you, it works awesome. I put it inline with the Geigerrig Hydration Engine (bomb proof pressurized bladder) now the geigerrig does all the work that gravity would do and you dont have to suck, unless you want to.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=38558&skip_to_post=363979#363979