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Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Jetboil performance claim: Roger Caffin calling me out! on 02/05/2009 09:16:04 MST Print View

In the "Coolest Gear" thread I claimed my Jetboil would go "From packed to hot water is less than 3 minutes."

Roger replied "That is based on Jetboil's marketing spiel, not your own personal experience, right?"

Thanks for calling me out on such a wild claim. I don't time such things in the field, so the three minutes was an estimate. In my top secret product testing laboratory (kitchen) test it raised 700 ml of ice water from 32F/0C to a full 212F/100C rolling boil in 4:04 from lighting the cold stove, consuming 7 grams of fuel.

If I'm just going for a hot drink I use about half that much water, and it is usually more like 50F instead of ice water; I estimated the 30 seconds for stove assembly and 2:30 for heating. Tomorrow morning I'll do a more rigorous test of my claim, including time to assemble the stove and fill it with water.

The tests were last summer with a new stove and full 100 gram can of "Jetpower" fuel. I did several tests to figure out how much fuel to carry. Repeated bench tests showed that less than full throttle was most efficient- 3 cups/700 ml of ice water consistently required between 6 and 7 grams to full boil. I now use the 110 gram cans of Snowpeak fuel.

Recently I paid my BPL subscription so just yesterday I read Roger's original review and test of the Jetboil: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/jetboil_stove_review.html


Also I will use a fan to test the performance with and without my recently constructed 8 gram wind screen. The wind screen is simply part of a stainless steel hose clamp that wraps 2/3 of the way around the heat exchanger air outlets. It blocks about 1/2 the vent area, which I think will keep the flame more centered in strong breezes.

The springy metal band just snaps onto the cup. It can be slid up or down to vary the amount of vent blockage. The slots in the hose clamp seem a neat feature for allowing partial venting, but a solid strip of titanium would probably work fine too. For travel it stores neatly in the top of the stove.

Edited by jimqpublic on 02/05/2009 09:23:25 MST.

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Jetboil performance on 02/05/2009 10:36:43 MST Print View

You have to figure another 30 seconds to find your misplaced Bic lighter, or, if you can't find it, an extra minute to get a match lit in the wind.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Re: Jetboil performance on 02/05/2009 11:19:27 MST Print View

The bic is always in my pocket, but my Jetboil clicker works on the second click most of the time. I ground away some of the plastic that seemed to be interrupting the return electrical circuit which seemed to make it work better.

Jim

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Jetboil performance claim: Roger Caffin calling me out! on 02/05/2009 12:34:25 MST Print View

I really dislike Jetboils, if for no other reason then their weight. But I have to admit that they are relatively quick to boil. I basically don't sell these stoves; I can sell someone a stove/pot combo that weighs at least a half pound less with negligble fuel efficiency difference. BUT-

Having some spare time on my hands, I set a pint of cold tap water and a packed Jetboil in front of me. In my lab, ie shop. From packed to rolling boil was 3:12. I pulled the lid off a few times because I started seeing steam roll out the lid at about 1:20; I suspect that if I had left it in place I could have gotten to rolling boil a bit more quickly. In other words, as much as I might hate to admit it, yeah, the 3 minute packed-to-boiling is a pretty reasonable claim.

te - wa
(mikeinfhaz) - F

Locale: Phoenix
but what's the point? on 02/05/2009 13:00:53 MST Print View

im still struggling with the whole point of a fast boil.. do you really have to have a boil under 4 minutes after you just spent hours doing other things? is there really a need to rush for you people when youre out in the backcountry?
3:12 for $100 and over a pound is just silly when I can get 6:12 for under an 4 ounces and under $5

so, IMO the jetboil is a POS and i wouldnt even use it for car camping

:roll defendant's arguments and let the jury decide:

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 02/05/2009 13:02:52 MST.

Robert Blean
(blean) - MLife

Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras
Re: but what's the point? on 02/05/2009 13:09:41 MST Print View

Seems to me it somewhat depends on the scenario. For a solo backpacker in moderate weather I completely agree with you. For a group of four, out at -20, starting from melting snow ....

--MV

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Jetboil performance claim: Roger Caffin calling me out! on 02/05/2009 13:12:05 MST Print View

To this day, I still do not understand the importance of fast boil times and why they have been used by manufacturers and pitched to shoppers as if they're the ultimate measure of a stove.

Jetboils look fast...as well as heavy, bulky, and completely lacking in simplicity. But why does speed matter?

"Damn it man, we need to eat NOW, there's just NO TIME!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE HURRY!!!!!"

If I was in some legitimate hurry to eat (although I can't imagine what would cause this) I wouldn't cook. I'd eat another Clif bar and a handful of nuts.


On the note of melting snow at -20, you're in big trouble if you're going to rely on an upright cannister system.

Edited by xnomanx on 02/05/2009 13:13:53 MST.

Dave .
(Ramapo) - F - M
Re: but what's the point? on 02/05/2009 13:16:16 MST Print View

What stove are you using Michael?

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Jetboil performance on 02/05/2009 13:17:39 MST Print View

I have run hundreds of stove tests in my garage using some sophisticated measuring equipment and the fastest most efficient stove test I have ever recorded was with a JetBoil Stove using a GCS pot I boiled 500mls water in around 2m 30s and used around 4.5g of fuel.

Tony

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Jetboil performance claim: on 02/05/2009 13:35:27 MST Print View

What about the ability to boil while you are hiking? That makes it even faster. It's hard to light a match and hold it and your poles with only two hands though.

Richard Matthews
(food) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Drag racer of backpacking on 02/05/2009 14:06:48 MST Print View

The JetBoil is the drag racer of backpacking. Impressive performance, but still does not answer the question -- Why?

te - wa
(mikeinfhaz) - F

Locale: Phoenix
holy cow, now! on 02/05/2009 14:31:56 MST Print View

Dave, Im using a piece of crap*. its a redbull chimney style top burner with a heiny can (oh god say it aint so!)
and a bud bottle stand with a craft alum. windscreen. total weight with mini bic, bandana and wilson tennis ball lid - 3.7oz

*but its MY piece of crap :)

rarely, I use a vargo ti jet stove because it fits the heiny pot. so far, a bottle of HEET @ $1.25 seems to work well. just dont snort the fumes...

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 02/05/2009 14:49:33 MST.

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Drag racer of backpacking on 02/05/2009 14:36:04 MST Print View

>The JetBoil is the drag racer of backpacking. Impressive performance, but still does not answer the question -- Why?


I have to agree,why does it matter in the bush.

The only time that I appreciated the JetBoil GCS pot performance was when I was melting snow at -17C (around 0F), I was using my modified pot stand Coleman xtreme stove, this stove/pot combination performance was outstanding.

Tony

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
jetboil. on 02/05/2009 14:41:14 MST Print View

yeah, that unit never made any sense to me, at least in terms of cooking food. the whizbang factor is cool, i guess, but what's wrong with a canister stove and foil windscreen? or supercat alcohol stove? i like the canister if it's wet and cold and i'm cooking in a little vestibule, but otherwise who cares about the speed? set up the alky stove, light it, put water on, set up your shelter and get settled, food is ready, done. i just don't get the jetboil deal.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Jetboil performance on 02/05/2009 14:43:46 MST Print View

Hi Guys

Stove testing is great fun, but comparing results is more difficult. The following should be specified if you want people to be able to make useful comparisons:
* Volume of water used
* Starting water temperature (rumour has it one company started with very warm water!)
* Finish temperature (rumour has it one company counted the first bubbles as meaning boiling!)
* The fuel mix in the canister used (in cold weather the amount of propane is going to affect peak power)
* Whether the canister was new or nearly empty (propane again)
* Ambient temperature (seriously affects the pressure in the canister and hence peak power)

Have fun!
Cheers

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Jetboil on 02/05/2009 16:39:31 MST Print View

Both the Jet Boil and Reactor make a lot of sense if you are using 1 stove amongst several people and don't want the hassle of carry alchohol using esbit (the residue is a pain). By boiling quickly people eat quickly plus there would be savings from the fuel burn perespective - the Reactor is really quite efficient for what it does. In this respect the weight is spread over several people over several days.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Fast boil times- So what? on 02/05/2009 18:31:57 MST Print View

"Damn it man, we need to eat NOW, there's just NO TIME!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE HURRY!!!!!"

No, there is not any real hurry for me on the trail. There is "bother" though. I truly enjoy stopping for a hot drink two or three times a day. Before I got the JB it was too much bother. With the Jetboil I can stop, have a quick brew, and pack back up with little effort.

Perhaps my other stoves contribute to my Jetboil joy. I have a SVEA 123, MSR X-GK, and can-piercing Bluet. I completely respect the opinion of anyone who has tried one for a trip and rejected it.

Edited by jimqpublic on 02/05/2009 18:33:22 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Fast boil times- So what? on 02/05/2009 20:10:05 MST Print View

Hi James

> my Jetboil joy. I have a SVEA 123, MSR X-GK, and can-piercing Bluet.
Ah, yes, well...
Svea 123 - antique liquid fuel stove, slow to set up
MSR-XGK - fireball liquid fuel stove, slow to set up
Bleuet - primitive.

Just as an exercise in modern discovery, try a small upright Snow Peak stove or even a Vargo Jet-Ti, with a small titanium pot. Check the cost and the weight too. You might be surprised...

Cheers

Joe Kuster
(slacklinejoe) - MLife

Locale: Flatirons
Jetboil performance claim: Roger Caffin calling me out! on 02/05/2009 20:53:27 MST Print View

Hmm.. I dunno guys. One of the best features of the jetboil in my eyes is having the thing in your hands while making a hot lunch, great on cold days. They even have a hanging kit for us climbers (or hanging it in a tent when properly vented of course). Mine sees the most use on cooler weather climbing trips where ease of hot chocolate making paired with the neoprene cozy that makes it easy to sip from is worth the extra weight.

For backpacking, eh I usually go a different route but for the lazy of us it's really sweet to setup. There's something about the amount of polish and integration that it has that satisfies the inner gear wh0re.

When it's freezing rain the last thing I want to do is stay hunched around on the ground - hell you can cook while still moving as long as your careful about not letting it boil over.

Granted, the company's liability lawyers would have a fit if they saw this post.

Edited by slacklinejoe on 02/05/2009 20:57:40 MST.

Joe Kuster
(slacklinejoe) - MLife

Locale: Flatirons
Jetboil performance claim: Roger Caffin calling me out! on 02/05/2009 21:05:04 MST Print View

By the way, when judging boiling times don't forget about altitude. Stuff boils way faster up at alttidue since it only needs to reach 193.904 F / 89.947 C (calculated for Ward CO, which is actually below most of my hikes).

Calculate boil temps