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Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
1443 tyvek for inner winter tent on 02/03/2009 19:00:03 MST Print View

I'm considering making an inner fabric tent for winter use for the MLD DuoMid. Has anyone used 1443 tyvek for such an application? It's ~ 1.18 ounces/yd^2 (~40 g/m^2), breathable, and water resistant. Not sure how much less breathable it would be compared to thin nylon with a DWR? what do you think?

Also some kitebuilding companies have 0.75 osy ripstop fabrics... not sure if they are coated... at that weight I don't think they would be. Think this is getting to light for inner tents?

example:
Part 34xx54 - 3/4 oz. Ripstop Nylon - 54" wide. General Purpose kite cloth, Grade 'A' only. Price: $6.85/yd

LINK HERE

Edited by brianjbarnes on 01/21/2010 10:10:29 MST.

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/04/2009 14:36:15 MST Print View

Just an update:

1) e-mail the kite building site and they said all of their ripstop was coated so that it would not be breathable... darn...

2) e-mailed AYCE at Thru-Hiker and he agreed that momentum would not be a good choice for an inner tent

3)sounds like the 1.1 osy ripstop nylon is the most frequently used...

4) anyone have any thoughts about 1443 tyvek as an inner tent?

Nia Schmald
(nschmald) - MLife
Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/04/2009 14:43:59 MST Print View

"2) e-mailed AYCE at Thru-Hiker and he agreed that momentum would not be a good choice for an inner tent"

What's wrong with momentum as an inner tent? It's been recommended in other threads.

Edited by nschmald on 02/04/2009 15:22:35 MST.

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/04/2009 16:53:22 MST Print View

Nia - not exactly sure why not. Here's the quote from AYCE over at Thru-Hiker: "It would not be a good choice. Momentum-MR is a soft-goods shell material for things like apparel and sleeping bags."

Brad Groves in THISthread had suggested that since momentum was calendared it may have trouble with condensation.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/04/2009 17:19:36 MST Print View

> e-mail the kite building site and they said all of their ripstop was coated
Yes, a LOT of very light synthetic fabrics have an acrylic coating **just to keep the weave together**.
Caution: acrylic is NOT a waterproof coating, just a 'stick it all together' coating. However, it does tend to reduce any airflow to nearly zero. Good for parachutes maybe and for kites; not good for most outdoors gear.

> momentum would not be a good choice for an inner tent
Why? Yes, Momentum is calendared on one surface, and that will reduce the air flow somewhat. But it IS used for sleeping bags where some air movement is crucial to letting the water vapour out. Also it has a a good DWR on it. So I cannot see why it would not make quite a good inner tent fabric. It may be a little more expensive, but in the quantities used by an MYOG enthusiast the differential is trivial.

> 1443 tyvek as an inner tent
Welll, one thing is for sure: it will NOT breathe nearly as well as Momentum! A non-breathing inner tent ... with me inside it?

> 1.1 osy ripstop nylon is the most frequently used.
Well, yes. I use 32 gsm (0.92 oz) fabric from Carrington Mills (UK) for my inner tents: it has worked excellently. If I had Momentum fabric I would be happy to use it.

But I would NOT use Tyvek: it does not pass air. Could be deadly!

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 02/05/2009 00:22:38 MST.

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/04/2009 17:51:32 MST Print View

Thanks Roger! Appreciate the info...

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Tyvek on 02/04/2009 20:59:50 MST Print View

I thought tyvek was breathable, which is why the Sublite was made from it. Am I confused?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Tyvek on 02/05/2009 00:24:06 MST Print View

Hi Joe

No, you aren't as confused as much as I am guilty of poor expression. Tyvek is breathable in the sense it passes water vapour; it is not air-porous.
I have edited my posting.

Cheers

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 10:39:42 MST Print View

For the record, what I ineloquently tried to distinguish was that, given two completely equivalent fabrics, one calendared and one not, the non-calendared fabric would breathe better. I have a couple things made in Momentum and agree that it does breathe reasonably well... I do wonder about things such as tear strength and overall durability of the material if used in a tent, but then I don't think those are valid concerns given the state of the market technology. Roger, is the .92 oz fabric from Carrington that you use calendared? I don't think it's a deal-breaker one way or the other, but we might as well consider all aspects of proposed materials...

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Re: Re: Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 10:48:45 MST Print View

All the woven nylons being discussed are
calandared.

Just some are done at a higher temperature.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: 1443 tyvek for inner winter tent on 02/05/2009 13:34:47 MST Print View

Brian,

1443 Tyvek is a poor choice relative to ripstop nylon for an inner tent. Compared with most textile fabrics, the air permeability of Tyvek Types 10 and 14 is low. Approximately 43x more air or water vapor will pass through a ripstop nylon inner tent versus the average Tyvek inner tent.

Edited by richard295 on 02/05/2009 16:49:01 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 14:47:53 MST Print View

Hi Brad

> Roger, is the .92 oz fabric from Carrington that you use calendared?
Not as far as I could see.

Cheers

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 15:46:14 MST Print View

Thanks all - very informative thread... Looks like it has boiled down to 1.1osy ripstop nylon as the best choice (since it's commonly available in the US).

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 18:40:49 MST Print View

Hey, Roger-
I think I can almost see you wince when I mention this, but...

Silk came up in another thread again. I know how much you like natural fibers in general, and that you have to replace your silk bag liners periodically. But how do you think a silk would do sewn into a tent canopy? Assuming you didn't sew a single layer simple seam :) Would there really be too much tention (sorry, spelling intentional) for the silk to hold up? I would think that as long as you dry the tent thoroughly before storage it would last decently well. Going from Mark's calcs, 4.5mm silk should come in at ~0.58 ounces and quite breathable...

Edited by 4quietwoods on 02/05/2009 18:53:25 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: RE: "1443 tyvek for inner winter tent" on 02/05/2009 20:22:35 MST Print View

Hi Brad

You haven't defined the problem yet. Are you making an inner tent for 3-season comfort, or as a bug shelter, or to keep a howling snow storm out?

4.5 mm silk is rather porous ...

Cheers

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Reason for Inner? on 02/06/2009 09:08:39 MST Print View

Hmmm. Good question. Brian, what do you want your inner to do? Is it primarily bug protection? Or are you trying to keep out blowing sand or spindrift?

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: Inner Winter Tent for the DuoMID on 02/06/2009 11:59:55 MST Print View

My goal is to prevent spindrift/major gusts from entering the sleeping area, increase the warmth a bit, and avoiding the need for a bivy. When I figure out how to export a google sketchup drawing as a jpg I'll post my plans for the inner shelter.

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: DuoMid - Inner Winter Tent on 02/06/2009 12:15:37 MST Print View

Here is my concept for an inner tent for the DuoMid. 7'2" long 4' deep, 5" tall silnylon floor, 1.1osy ripstop nylon walls, 4'3" from peak to floor, vents at each end and at top, triangular silnylon piece zipped between doors to make cooking porch (when it's nice out).

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: DuoMid - Inner Winter Tent on 02/06/2009 12:18:26 MST Print View

oops... image didn't load... trying again:

Brian Barnes
(brianjbarnes) - M

Locale: Midwest
RE: DuoMid - Inner Winter Tent on 02/06/2009 12:22:20 MST Print View

from the side: