Companion forum thread to:

2005 Backpacking Light Trip Planning Spreadsheet Contest Entries

Use this thread for open discussion and evaluation of contest entries.

Edited by ryan on 12/14/2005 00:05:27 MST.

after skimming the entries, I see that many people included their gear. Were we suposed to do this? I thought it was ment to help people to plan their lists?

everyone did a nice job, good luck.

P.S. this was my first experience with this software so I dont really expect to win :-) so good luck to all...again

Meir Gottleib and Ben Tomsky links seem wrong?

Edited by jshann on 12/14/2005 07:54:19 MST.

Wow! Lots of work went into these. On first review I really like David Lewis's sheet. It's simple elegance appeals to me. And I am appreciate the nod from Alice P. Neuhauser. I'm glad my sheet was of use.

One thing I like to see in a gear spreadsheet is the ability to do (2) people side by side. The one I currently use can do this. I often backpack with a partner and so we share cooking and safety items.

Anyway, impressive work by all. I'm sure 100's of hours were put into this task.

Ryan F:

I had the same question as I was preparing my spreadsheet. So I cheated and submitted both a blank one and an example one with my gear filled in.

Yes, there does seem to be a problem with the links to the last two entries. Some great ideas to borrow from, and some very skilled execution went into these. Kudos to everybody!

Dave

I also like the David Lewis submission for it's simplicity
and easy metric to imperial conversion. Works well in NeoOffice which is rapidly becoming my favorite alternative to MicroSquash.

The Jim Woods submission isn't opening properly from the link but do have it from another source.

John Shannon's isn't downloading at all--I get a screen full of code.

update--Alles schön, at this point all links work.

Edited by kdesign on 12/14/2005 16:05:35 MST.

Kevin, are you using a mac? If so, try dragging the file onto the icon instead of double clicking the file. See if that works.

John--it won't download at all. Same as the 2 entries below you. I can't bring it to the desktop. Nothing to drag.

Yes--on a Mac running Tiger.

I see what you mean. It does the same thing on mine if I click the file name. Try right clicking and saving or press the option key before clicking to force a download to the hard drive.

Edited by jshann on 12/14/2005 14:31:03 MST.

If you just get code on a page (e.g., John Shannon's files) try right-clicking (control-clicking) on the link and downloading directly to a file. The "problem" some of you are having is that your browsers don't recognize the file extension and so get confused.

The broken links for Meir Gottleib and Ben Tomsky should work now.

Thanks John and Kenneth. Got it.
Nice SS, John.

Thanks for the hard work guys. There are some great ideas in these spreadsheets.

I don't see my entry listed here. Did I miss the cutoff or is it for members only?

We've added zip files (.zip) versions for the larger spreadsheets and those that came in bunches.

Thanks Ken! That's a big help.

Bob

Thanks Kevin.

---------
Kevin said,

Thanks John and Kenneth. Got it.
Nice SS, John.

Is there a NeoOffice equivalent to the Excel feature--
"Analysis ToolPak"?

The Gottlieb spreadsheet has some very desirable features but I really want a spreadsheet that works in the NeoOffice environment. I have not been able to take advantage of the best parts of Meir's entry.

John, working in NeoOffice, how do I add additional rows and maintain full functionality in the cells? Such as weight conversion and adding?

Adding a row:

1. Insert row- Place cursor (highlites the cell) in area you want to add a row. The row will be added above where you place the cursor. Then go to insert menu and select row.
2. Copy correct format- Since the added row won't have the appropriate formatting, choose a nearby row (preferably blank), select that row from columns B through K, and copy using either the edit menu or command-C on the keyboard.
3. Paste correct format- Paste the copied cells into the newly added row by selecting the new row from columns B through K and using either the edit menu or command-V on the keyboard.

That should automatically update the the unit conversion and total formulas. Make sure it does though.

Edited by jshann on 12/16/2005 08:04:47 MST.

John--I really like how straight forward your spreadsheet is. But with useful metric/imperial abilities and displays of the various weight summaries
we UL'ers are most concerned about.

One improvement I would like to see is the ability to see quick subtotals for each individual category (cooking, xtra clothing,etc.). How hard would that be to implement?
Also, the weight summary would be better expressed in exact lbs.-oz./ kg-g. units. I prefer measures more exact than rounded to nearest tenth of the larger unit of measurement.

Edited by kdesign on 12/16/2005 14:57:45 MST.

Kevin,

I don't have NeoOffice, but this thread might help:

http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2141

Looks like the CONVERT_ADD function may do the trick.

Edited by mcg11 on 12/16/2005 20:58:54 MST.

Meir, thanks. I'll give it a try but I think the Excel add-in acts more like a filter and CONVERT_ADD more like
a specific operation. Well, there's always using Excel (sigh).

Thanks for the comments guys :) I haven't had a chance to look at any of the other entries... but I must say... I'm blown away by the number of entries?!?! Wow! I thought there'd only be a handful of entires. Looking forward to checking them all out.

Just a couple of things...

1. I did include my gear... just as sample content. Nice to have some actual weights to play with to see how the sheet works. I figured it's easy enough to overwrite my gear... delete rows... add rows... etc.

2. I did NOT test my sheet in NeoOffice. It's only guaranteed to work in Excel. As I recall... there were one or two errors in NeoOffice. I was originally trying to install Open Office and unless you're some kind of UNIX geek it seems pretty daunting... so I gave up :) By the time I heard about and downloaded NeoOffice... the deadline was a day away... so I didn't have time to test it. If I win any of the three prizes... I'd be happy to try and fix and NeoOffice bugs.

3. Carol... the shared idea is neat. But someone still had to carry it right? So it has to be added to either your pack or your partners? I guess the solution would be to double up my columns (so like two lists side by side) and add a "Shared" total? The shared total would still count to your pack weight... but you would know what's shared and what's not. You could use an "S" much like I use a "P" for pack and a "W" for wear/consume.

BTW... I like the "database" like approach as well... but it was just a little too much work for me I think... plus I wanted a sheet that was super simple to modify. That was one of my main goals. It works fine for someone like me who's fairly new to backpacking and doesn't have a room full of gear :) I don't really need an "inventory" system.

Dave

Edited by davidlewis on 12/17/2005 10:56:59 MST.

Kevin, I added in the subtotals for ounces/grams in an updated spreadsheet that is a bit better than my contest submission. Is that what units you wanted for it? As for the lbs-oz thing, that would need a more complicated (for my abilities) formula that would take a while for me to figure out. Others might hack it out in no time. Email me at rhd101 at aol dot com for that file. Maybe we need to make another thread for comments on updated files not included in the contest?

>>Maybe we need to make another thread for comments on updated files not included in the contest?

And add a user support hotline.... ;-)>
Thanks, John, will do.
K.

Edited by kdesign on 12/17/2005 18:49:26 MST.

David Johnston, Your spreadsheet looks great. One this I noticed is that you use a complex formula to convert from grams to ounces, etc. Check out mine I used the CONVERT function, so much easier. I think your will be the winner. Great job.

Marc Valley

Marc:

Thanks for your nice comments. I appreciate your feedback. Ironically, I used the CONVERT function in my previous version, and then decided to take it out for the version I submitted to the contest. I was tired of having to make sure that the right Toolpack was loaded, and explaining how to load it to other people who were less familiar with add-ins. And you are right, the formula in those cells is complex, but the conversion is only part of it. Most of the overhead in those cells has to do with deciding whether grams or ounces is in effect for the entry weight. And I don't think (but I could be wrong) that CONVERT has a means of displaying either decimal pounds or lb/oz. So, even though it took more programming initially, I'm now pleased that I took out CONVERT -- it opened up some other possiblities.

(PS. If you want to see some complex cells, look at the Print page. I'm not very good with pivot tables, so I used the brute force method of compiling the report for printing. Not very elegant, but it works!)

The love child of Dave Johnston and Meir Gottlieb's spreadsheets would share the best aspects of both----Mier's Gear Closet (love the built-in gear library), Pantry, and Menu(Nutritional info!) organization (and some clever data entry aspects)-----Dave's aesthetic presentation, separate sheets for each intelligently chosen category, and separate summary and print sheets.
I only wish they would work easily in NeoOffice.

For "just the facts, mamn" gearlist purposes, it's hard to beat John Shannon's. Simple, easy to use, and it works great in NeoOffice (for we Mac using, allergic to Microsoft types) .

Edited by kdesign on 12/20/2005 15:07:43 MST.

Love child! I'd like to see that!

I agree; Meir's Gear Closet, coupled with the drop down combo boxes to choose gear for each row is a great idea. Wish I'd thought of that. I have a separate spreadsheet, still under development, where I enter data on all the foods I use and use that to build a trip menu, complete with daily weights, calories, averages etc. Someday when I finish that it would be a great idea to incorporate that into the gearlist. It looks like Meir already has that nailed.

Ken! Why does a duplicate of my latest message get posted every time I visit this page?

Dave

A bug on the Print page of my spreadsheets has been pointed out and I have now fixed it. The bug made the 10th item of any group appear in Bold Italic, which should be reserved for group subheads. I tracked that down and fixed it. There is still a limit 20 items under each group subhead that can show up in the printed report.

If anyone would like a copy of the corrected version of the spreadsheet, I'd be happy to email it. Send me a message at dsjohnston 'at' cox.net.

Dave

I knew I wasn't using the full capabilities of Excel, but yikes! Looking at the entries, I'm a babe in the Excel woods! I'm glad I didn't bother to submit anything. I'm a big fan of pull-down items, so I like that in Meir Gottlieb's entry... and what great food data! I've never gotten more sophisticated with food than how much weight of it to bring, but if I ever get more interested, this is a great springboard! I love Dave Johnston's spreadsheet, and so far that would be the one I would most likely adopt and tweak. I forget which one, but the one with the graphs was intruiging, especially the analysis of where gear was packed based on when you needed to access it...
Nicely done, everyone who submitted! There isn't a single entry that doesn't have something in it I like better than my own gear list.

Hi. I am really impressed with some of the spreadsheets in the contest. I was wondering if people are actually using the downloaded files. I especially like Kim Clements' work and would like to use it for my own gear planning, however, I think I should try to ask for her permission or get an okay from BPL first? Does anyone have a suggestions?

Thanks.

I'm really glad for the spreadsheets, too. Lots of great ideas there. Jeff, if they're useful, of course you should use them. The corresponding rule is that if you come up with good modifications, let us know!
-Mark

Jeff,
Everyone who entered the spreadsheet contest did so with the understanding that their work would be shared in the public domain. They are posted in downloadable formats to make them easier to access. Feel free.

Thanks Mark and Vick for your help. It's nice knowing that the BPL police won't be knocking on my door. These spreadsheets are great tools and I appreciate the opportunity to use them. Thanks again. Regards, Jeff

Jeff,
If I may plug my own favorite, take a look at the one Josh Mitchell and I posted. It isn't a spreadsheet, but a tool for making decisions about which gear will meet your needs, based on your own experience. It's pretty slick.

I remember 1/15/06, but the memory isn't what it used to be.

Hi Vick, Thanks for the heads up on your spreadsheet. I'm going to check out. Jeff

And the winner is.......drumroll...........
.......Who?

Who won?

Has there been a winner?

Thanks
Dan

Come on, the suspense is killing me. I just had to restudy the entries because it has been soooo long. Any chance an announcement will be made by Memorial Day?

I wouldn't expect a response any time soon. Follow through seems to be lacking on these projects.

How do we know contest winners have not already been selected? The winners may have been notified and already received their award. The spreadsheets were only to be "juried" by the Forum, but winners selected by BPL. Nothing stated that the Forum was to be notified of who the winners were. Perhaps the winners also wanted to keep it a private matter?

Patience, grasshopper.
Sorting through all the entries has taken time, just to create a short list.
Judging is in progress now.

Thanks Roger for the update.

Hi all,
We'll be announcing the winners June 7th. I apologize about the long wait! We're getting the gift certificates ready for the winners now - at least there won't be a long delay between the announcement and getting the "booty."

Edited by cmcrooker on 06/07/2006 09:11:27 MDT.

Congrats, Meir. Well deserved 1st place in a very competative field. Thank you for allowing my physical gear closet to reside so conveniently on a spreedsheet.

I also want to say "Congrats" to Meir, who definitely deserved 1st place in my opinion.

I learned much from his entry and have since revised my personal gearlist to incorporate many of his database lookup techniques.

How did y'all find out who the winner was? Did i miss something? Was it in a Forum Post that i missed?

>How did y'all find out who the winner was?

Backpacking Light Trip Planning Spreadsheet Contest Winners

Douglas,

Thanks for the link. I just checked the BPL home page and saw a link there also.

I almost never go to the home page and just wait for an email from BPL telling me of the new articles and then use the links in the email. Haven't received an email yet, so I didn't realize that the winner was announced. I guess it makes sense that the home page would have links before the emails are sent out.

Thanks again and congrats to the winners.

Edited by pj on 06/07/2006 16:23:02 MDT.

Congratulations to Meir, Jim and Ben. Excellent entries from everyone; I'm sure we all picked up ideas from each others' sheets to play around with for our entries in next year's contest...right?

nm

This is for talented Mr. Gottleib (preferred) or any person that understands well his spreadsheet:
Is there a way to enter food for a dog in a way that won't contribute to my FOOD weight under the consumable category in the PACK LIST? I don't mind it factored into the grand total for CONSUMABLES: food, water, fuel. I just what to keep the "two types of foods" seperate so I can see my food weight total vs the dog's.
Right now I've got the dog food listed under PANTRY and then added to the MENU.

I guess I treat my dog, Boomer, like a human backpacking partner. All I needed to do was to list the dog food and Zuke's snacks under the GEAR CLOSET then listed them under CONSUMABLES in the GEAR LIST.
Hey, Mr Gottleib, muchas gracias for a great way to list my gear. Sure beats the word doc I started a year ago and then manually calcaluting pack weights.
--Carl

How do I print the spreadsheets so that I can write in my own gear? I like the ones that are on here but when I save them it has all their gear listed.

I recently downloaded this spreadsheet, but everytime I change one of the selections the calculations of grams, lbs, and kilograms comes up as an error. " #NAME?" Does anyone have any information on this?

Anyone out there have a new version of any of these that works with mac that you would like to share? I'm still keeping my lists on handwritten paper. Please help!

Go back and look for David Lewis' submission. I recall seeing a "MAC OS X" folder in the zip archive file along with the one I used.

I just downloaded this spreadsheet and when I try to switch the Ounces/Grams option to Grams
the cells in the Gear Closet don't properly convert..
The Ounces values just move into the cells that should be Grams and that throws off the entire calculation.

Can someone help me fix this please :)
I'm using Office 2007

Colin,

Similar issues with earlier versions of Excel. This should work.

First of all make sure you have the 'Analysis Toolpack' Add-in installed. Thes instructions work on 2000 and 2003, and probably on 2007.

Click the Tools Menu, Click Add-ins... and then Check 'Analysis Toolpack.'

If the Add-in is not installed, then Excel will ask you to insert the CD, and install it. Once installed, make sure the Analysis Toolpack is checked in the Add-in menu.

If it is still not working, go to the Options page and change the Primary weight units cell to the other choice. From here it should work and switch back and forth.

I had expected to see some program in VBA (Visual Basic for Applications), when was playing with this. But the author didn't. He has put together some very complex formulas to do some of this stuff. Very impressive advanced use of formulas!

Excel 2007, Tools menu - what tools menu?
They screwed the entire layout in 2007!

Cheers

Roger,

Turns out you click on the circular logo, top left, then select "Excel Options" at the bottom right of the window that appears. Should be pretty clear from there.

James

Thankyou for the replies guys
I found the excel options menu and added the Analysis Tookpack; however, the conversion still isn't working for me for some reason :(

Edited by colbeans on 03/04/2009 20:16:42 MST.

Colin,

Go to the Option page in the workbook and change to the weight option from whatever it is set at. I found that after I added the toolpack, it would not work until I changed the weight option. After that, it kept working when I made subsequent changes to the weight option.

I am using Excel 2000. I buils a lot of Excel-VBA applications for my company using 2000, which is our corporate load. Many of these applications are faily sophisticated. We are migrating to Office 2007, and I have no reported compatililty issues with 2007 from our users.

So I gather previously added weights wont convert properly when the option is changed... but all new additions will?
Or was the spreadsheet designed to go back and forth between the two options converting them each time it's changed?

Colin,

I only looked at it for a couple minutes, just to help out. It appears the the purpose of the option is to let you calculate base, consumables, FSO, etc at the bottom of the sheet. I would imagine there is no need to re-input data.

What do people like to use these days? I'm still on paper. 7 years of technology has offered up other choices. Geargrams and what not. Me, I still like having it all on my own computer. Not so sure about posting it.

I've made my own Excel document that has gone through more iterations than my gear closet has. Google Doc's has an online spreadsheet which has many of the same features.

I see no need or reason to have it online. Just remembered that I have Gram Weenie on Renee's computer. Man I need to upgrade this classic Emac.


You guys aren't going to talk tech all night again are you?

Mmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe.

Well you can build and maintain your own fire this time.

Ugh. OK, no talk about computers or anything related to them.

Geez, the last time that I ran a Fortran program it was on an IBM System 360 mainframe.

There is probably a new model by now.

--B.G.--

I learned Fortran back in the 1980's; had to punch my own cards! Who in the world uses that now?

"I learned Fortran back in the 1980's; had to punch my own cards! Who in the world uses that now?"

People used punch cards in the 80's? Geez the PC was available in 81. We were using mini-main frames in the 80s and could write code on terminals.

I learned my first computer language in the late 60's (ALGOL) and used punch cards on a Borroughs B5500. I re-wrote some of the programs in BASIC and ran them faster on an Apple ii in the late 70's :)

I thought everyone uses Excel (except Apple geeks). Maybe I'm mistaken. Spreadsheets have been the mainstay of PCs since the late 70's. Some I have used include VisiCalc, MS MultiPlan, AppleWorks, Lotus 123, Excel, and the new horrid Apple Numbers.

"People used punch cards in the 80's?"

1968 maybe.

--B.G.--

Hey, my first computer science class in '75 had me punching cards for a IBM 360. I was a terrible typist so I couldn't get the stupid thing to ever run right.

How come nobody has mentioned cobalt (should be Cobol) yet? Or the early 80's CPM ( I wish that would have been IMB's pick instead of DOS- we'd all be way further ahead of things then we are now)

Edited by bestbuilder on 09/18/2012 09:46:02 MDT.

I was still shoveling a few punch cards around for mainframes in the early 1980s. Some stuff takes a long time to die.

Including Fortran. We still have some Fortran code from the 1970s in production at work. I wrote some of it. Luckily, it's someone else's job to deal with that problem!

Sorry, senior moment, that was the late 1970's when I was working on my accounting degree (kind of hard to make a living for a single mother with a degree in French and English literature and several kids to support). The firm I worked for in the 1980's was still using punch cards for their time cards and a couple of subordinate systems when I left in 1988, though. Not exactly cutting edge! I did get in on the cutting edge when our firm started using PC's in early 1981, though! We started with the Apple II and soon switched to the IBM PC. It took a long time, though, before most firms finally decided that desktop computers are not really capital equipment and should be upgraded if not replaced yearly. The firm I retired from (a different one) went to leasing, which turned out to be cheaper than buying and gave us new machines yearly.

I have Microsoft Office for Mac and make up my own Excel spreadsheets. I still tweak my gear list occasionally. Unfortunately, I can't afford to replace my own computer as often as I should, so mine is currently 6 years old--still holding up, though, although I can't use the latest operating systems on it. At least my O/S is now old enough that makers of computer viruses don't bother with it!

Edited by hikinggranny on 09/18/2012 00:56:25 MDT.

"How come nobody has mentioned cobalt yet?"

At the last time that I checked, Cobalt is Element #27 on the Periodic Table. Cobol is a programming language.

--B.G.--

Don't even need a fire. You all are doing it already...

Bob, you are so right- at midnight I was trying to dig too far back in the memory bank, or maybe I had a boat on my mind.

Cobol- computer programming lanuage

Cobalt- a very expensive boat, and an Element, Atomic Number: 27;
Atomic Weight: 58.933195; Melting Point: 1768 K (1495°C or 2723°F)
Boiling Point: 3200 K (2927°C or 5301°F); Density: 8.86 grams per cubic centimeter
Phase at Room Temperature: Solid; Element Classification: Metal; Period Number: 4 Group Number: 9 Group Name: none