Do you really need an insulation layer for summer if you've got a sleeping bag?
I mean, if it's evening and you're cold, why not just get in your sleeping bag?

Thanks for feedback, Evan

Edited by edude on 01/19/2009 15:31:11 MST.

Depends on where you live. My 'summer' could throw anything at me, and my insulation (even in summer) is part of my sleep system, but if your summer is in the Sierras and you've got a good long term forecast, then you may wish to ditch your extra insulation.

Yes. Unless you want to wear your sleeping bag while cooking and doing camp chores late at night/early morning or in summer snow storms.....

For the reasons and conditions mentioned above, I integrate the layer into my sleeping system and carry a lighter bag. The weight stays the about the same and I gain versatility!

I concur with Allison. Here in the SE, it's definitely not necessary. Our overnight lows in the middle of June last year were around 70.

> Do you really need an insulation layer for summer if you've got a sleeping bag?

Define 'summer'.
And there's your problem. We can have a cold front come over the mountains in mid-summer, taking the temperature from over 30 C to freezing in the space of half an hour. With hail.

"Generalisations are generally wrong."
Lady Eisenhower

Cheers

Mountains have their own seasons. Here in AK we had -40 degrees below last week and within 72 hours, it was 40 above! Summers are the same...alpine conditions bring snow at night after hiking in 70 degree weather all day. Insulation is a necessity in most of the places I hike during the "summer". I find in very inconvenient to wear my sleeping bag around camp and also am so paranoid about damaging it that it never leaves my tent. The half pound for an insulation piece is worth it to me because morning meditation is part of my routine and I like to do this from a sweet spot with a view (not in my tent if I can help it), but for others I guess this could be luxury depending on the environment.

I've seen snow and ice every month of the year here on Mt. Washington! =P

Regarding the need for sleeping bag plus insulation layer -- I try to match the bag to the expected nighttime lows -- and use my jacket as backup -- just in case -- given how notoriously unreliable weather forecasts are. For me, if I were to dispense with my jacket and just rely on the bag alone -- I would want a heavier bag than otherwise. But that can be suboptimal if nighttime turns out to be warmer than expected. At the end, I still prefer a separate bag and jacket for the flexibility.

Edited by ben2world on 01/19/2009 16:52:20 MST.

> I would want a heavier bag than otherwise. But that can be suboptimal if nighttime turns out to be warmer than expected

The only down side I see to carrying a warmer bag than I need is the extra weight. All my bags or quilts can be opened up, or even layed on top of if it's really warm. But yeah, like Benjamin, I take the bag that I *think* will work, and use the insulated clothing for back-up if I get it wrong. More flexible, and more comfy too when nature calls at 2am on a frosty morning ;)

My insulation layer is different for summer backpacking and summer day hiking. For day hiking, I have a system that works well for me: a base layer synthetic T-Shirt, nylon shorts, a fleece sweater (old model Patagonia mid-weight) and a wind shirt (or rain jacket). I need the fleece for mountain tops (it could be 85 and nice in Seattle, but rather chilly on top of a windy peak next to a snow field).

For backpacking, I replace the fleece sweater with a Cocoon pullover. I really don't need the extra warmth during the day (or even during breakfast), but it is warmer for the weight. The extra warmth allows me to carry a lighter sleeping bag. In other words, the pullover shaves a few ounces off of my system. I often hesitate with my Cocoon pants, since I'm usually just fine with my rain pants for morning warmth.

Edited by rossbleakney on 01/19/2009 17:42:18 MST.

I hike in both the Sierra and the Cascades, and find that carrying an insulation layer as a potential part of my sleep system makes the most sense, not only in summer but especially in spring/fall when the "unexpected" is to be expected. It offers additional protection in case of bad weather and also makes it easier to layer up at rest stops and while moving around camp or day hiking. I mean, who wants to rely on their sleeping bag while hanging around camp, at rest stops, or day hikes? My 2 cents.

I camp in Washington & Alaska, and I learned it's not good to ditch the insulation during summer. I've been on a few low elevation mountains that just don't thaw. Medium weight insulative clothes and a 40°F bag are as light as I'll go.

If I lived on the east side of WA, I'd be tempted to ditch my jacket & use a vest, and downgrade to light insulation.

I've heard of people who carry so little clothing that they'll put on warm clothes & crawl into their sleeping bag in the early evening. I think that would be courting hypothermia once the mercury drops further. I do, however, try to choose my clothes & bag to keep my warm when used together at the coldest expected temperature, subtracting 10°F.

I carry a sheet in the summer.