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When UL meets space travel
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Jacques mara
(mindexpansion) - F
When UL meets space travel on 01/09/2009 02:03:45 MST Print View

I was pondering the advantages the UL community could bring to space travel and foriegn world exploration. Space is demanding in many of the ways ULrs excell. Who has the lightest gear list for Mars and can still survive? Multi-use items. Weight vs. fuel. This is the UL future. Same game just a bigger board.

Tim F
(kneebyter) - MLife

Locale: the depths of Hiking Hell (Iowa)
Space UL on 01/09/2009 06:31:43 MST Print View

I'm thinking the space program has the UL thing down. They don't have a choice about it.

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
other fish to fry on 01/11/2009 04:36:45 MST Print View

Before we conquer other worlds we should fix the one we are in I dare say.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
UL space travel on 01/11/2009 09:05:51 MST Print View

The space shuttle weighs 4,474,574 pounds at launch and has a 50,000 pound payload capacity. UL? NOT!

The only thing lightened is the taxpayers' wallets :)

I'd hazard to guess that space and military development has fostered titanium and lightweight alloy production and fabrics like Kevlar and Spectra.

Tim F
(kneebyter) - MLife

Locale: the depths of Hiking Hell (Iowa)
re: UL Space Travel on 01/11/2009 09:49:46 MST Print View

Is that weight including fuel?

Fuel is a consumable, it doesn't count against base weight! ;-)

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
satellite on 01/11/2009 15:43:47 MST Print View

just have a close look at a satellite. Seems they are made from tent poles and aluminium foil thinner than beer cans. Only have to survive the acceleration at the start. So these guys cannot learn much from UL camping anyway.-) Alcohol stove won't work on Mars, lacks a slight bit of oxygen I am afraid. Solar panels then?
Ah yes, did someone ever build that stove from empty milk cartons? Is promoted for Africa (since our recycling goes to there to recycle itself somehow after the consumer paid some extra recycling fee in the supermarket). These cartons have an aluminium foil inner layer and are then folded in a way that the sun is focused on to the pot. May be working for boiling water, no idea. Need some sun for it, should go to Alice Springs to try it...

edit: the payload thing in Space shuttle (and any other rocket): you have to accelerate to 11km/s (if I clearly remember) to leave gravity and earth behind. Needs plenty of fuel. Since decades there are dreams about airplanes doing a part of the work, would use less fuel. But seems there is no money to investigate that at the moment, NASA spent it all on O-Rings and styrofoam (whohaha) and the Russians are bankrupt.

Edited by Morbo on 01/11/2009 16:05:22 MST.

Jacques mara
(mindexpansion) - F
Earth = Simple Survival on 01/12/2009 15:54:41 MST Print View

I understand that the space program has the upper hand in regards to the materials and products in developement, but at some point when you can book a flight out with restrcted weight, aren't you going go have a look. Ok, maybe not you are me but the attitude and resourcfulness of the community could bring unknown possiblities to the near future. Survival may be too easy here and therefore the problems here. I would imagine the effort put forth in conquering the abundent challenges (stove won't work) could only take away from negative effects of simple survival here.

Thanks for your tolerance and comments.

Do you weight are departure or destination (different gravitational pulls)?

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
Earth on 01/12/2009 21:06:00 MST Print View

gravity of Earth when leaving from here.
But we would have to consider gravity on other planets if we want to live there, since our skeleton and muscles are built for conditions here, might have troubles under double the gravity. But, Mars does not have an atmosphere, or, so we don't have to deal with atmospheric pressure there.
Yes, survive on earth is easier, there is always an empty beer can in the bush to make some of it, rather not on some other planets (yet)...
I agree, once you are in space, you have to improvise, no home builders market around the corner and no ebay to get stuff sent. That's how Mir kept in the orbit for so long. They should use Russians or Australians, the can build entire houses from Gauge 8 wire and sticky tape.
Colleague told me the story, Americans spent millions to develop a space pen (ball pen needs gravity to work), Russians just used a pencil...
In diesem Sinne,

Steffen

Edited by Morbo on 01/12/2009 21:10:59 MST.

Mark Hurd
(markhurd) - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: Earth on 01/14/2009 17:49:00 MST Print View

Steffen,

I agree that the Russians or Australians should do it. NASA needs to get their units figured out. Metric or English? But the story about the Space Pen is a myth.
Both Americans and Russians used pencils early on. The Space Pen was developed with private funds by the Fisher Company. see URL below. Still it makes a good story.

-Mark

http://www.spacepen.com/about-us.aspx

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
Space pen on 01/15/2009 02:43:29 MST Print View

nice story that.
However, costs decent money to get stuff up there, suppose, these guys did their homework....

Rod Lawlor
(Rod_Lawlor) - MLife

Locale: Australia
Re: Earth on 01/15/2009 04:51:46 MST Print View

Steffen,


Danke, but unfortunately most Australians would no longer know what 8 gauge is, or what to do with it. We're getting pretty handy with zip-ties though. (They're the only thing holding the rear bumper on my Falcon at the moment)

Rod

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Earth on 01/15/2009 14:37:00 MST Print View

Speak for yourself!
I have a large roll of 8 gauge and another large roll of 12 gauge in the barn, and very useful they are too!

Cheers

Jacques mara
(mindexpansion) - F
Earthlings space program on 01/15/2009 14:48:22 MST Print View

Seperating by nationalities will only slow exploration (intentional?). Similar to racism it doesn't benifit the whole.
I live in interior Alaska and have witnessed survival of -40F (metric makes more sense) weather for weeks straight. Systems/machines/etc fail in these conditions, but imagination and determination allows survival.
People need to be brought together for their talents and experience not because of where they where born. If we have something to contribute to the success of the mission, we are allowed to assist in my perfect reality.
Anyone familar with space elavator concept of getting things to space. A station that orbits in time with the earths rotation to stay directly above the same spot and then simply raise or lower cargo. One of these set ups at earth and the moon or mars etc, and weightless frictionless transport between, paired with a low base weight of multi use items...
Not if. How and when.

peter kvamme
(karacolor) - F

Locale: midwest
Re: When UL meets space travel on 01/15/2009 15:01:17 MST Print View

At -40F it doesn't make much difference if you are using English or Metric, at least when referring to temperature!

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Earthlings space program on 01/15/2009 15:15:09 MST Print View

This is all pretty far off the MYOG forum...

...but what exactly are we looking to send up/bring back with space elevators and such?

Jacques mara
(mindexpansion) - F
Paths not yet traveled on 01/15/2009 16:16:16 MST Print View

I thought I might get called on the temp=metric. My point is metric measure of weight (or is it mass?) and distance makes more sense (X10), however living in the US I am hit with the other system. I the same respect celcius is more logical (0=freezing 100=boiling instead of 32 and 212)and not used with frequency at my locale. So with these units of measure all similar in logic I refer to them as metric, and wish they were the measures we all use.

Last time I checked, all the systems and equiptment weren't in place for the ideas I suggested therefor the need to MYO. But this is open terrain and MYOG is a tiny box. Sorry it doesn't all fit in there.

I offer to throw out my ingrained standards of measure and learn/use the best system. I offer myself and my location for applicable testing. I offer my mind, one piece of the universal mind, in hope that your mind with be simulated into joining the universal mind, and all the paths not yet traveled.

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
frictionless on 01/15/2009 16:45:10 MST Print View

@Jacques: don't know if there ever will be frictionless movement, maybe in another galaxy. Space elevators have some troubles with the cable between down here and up there... Has to be at least 36 000km long. Heard spider web has amazing properties.
Yes agree, up to now it was more a thing to show off, during cold war. 1st just to show the others "we are able to send a nuke everywhere around the globe". Than merely prestige, why do we have to send someone to the moon? Now enter China, we are the 3rd to enter space. Would have been cheaper to join forces.... Now that every space agency is short in funds. But well, its all about competition. So we invent the bicycle a million times, in case some ones is better.
But what shall we do on Mars or so, need to create an atmosphere 1st.

reg Fahrenheit 512: well, he was logic in his way, its based on alcohol, isn't it? 0 F it freezes, 100 F it boils (the alcohol). That happens when you use alcohol instead of mercury in a thermometer.

I constantly try to work out ounces by comparison on food packages, can't work it out. Inch used to be the thickness of the ruler's thumb, of course changed with every ruler. Luckily by now it is at least constant...

@Rod/Roger, been on an inspection, this guy plumbed in his water tank (good on him) using gaffer tape. Another favorite is liquid nails, but I had no choice.

Anyway I still have the sneaking suspicion that we can rather learn from these guys how to make lightweight multi use things than the other way around. NASA asks for 24.000 Euro per kg pay load...

Edited by Morbo on 01/15/2009 16:54:16 MST.

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Clarifying facts on 01/16/2009 09:59:47 MST Print View

But, Mars does not have an atmosphere, or, so we don't have to deal with atmospheric pressure there....
Um, Mars has a surface level atmosphere of about 7-10 millibars

Fahrenheit 512: well, he was logic in his way, its based on alcohol, isn't it? 0 F it freezes, 100 F it boils (the alcohol)......
The freezing point of water is 32 degrees Fahrenheit and the boiling point 212 Fahrenheit (at 1013.25 millibars), placing the boiling and freezing points of water 180 degrees apart. A degree on the Fahrenheit scale is 1/180th part of the interval between the freezing point and the boiling point.

Inches verses Centimeters……..
Get a measuring stick that has both

On the topic, I suspect that NASA has a few tricks up their sleeve that would help UL camping and not so much the other way around.

Steffen Heidrich
(Morbo) - F

Locale: not much better than a tent
metric on 01/17/2009 04:08:55 MST Print View

On the topic: that's what I just said.

Atmosphere: well, its 1/100 of Earths pressure... Even if it was pure oxygen, not much helpful. And not much pressure on the spine either, Thanks for putting it into millibar instead of ounces per square yard or something like that.

You have to admit that the metric system is easier to use, that's why everyone except US and maybe some tribe on the Amazon joined in....

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
METRIC on 01/17/2009 11:48:49 MST Print View

"You have to admit that the metric system is easier to use, that's why everyone except US and maybe some tribe on the Amazon joined in...."

No arguments here.

It would make my units conversion spread sheet much easier. Then there is still the US floz/pint -vs- British floz/pint difference. And don't get me started on Tbsp, tbsp, and jigger measurments! AHHHH!