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Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chemical exposure on 01/04/2009 17:09:11 MST Print View

>Lets overlook the feminist view on this one;)
But ALL hormones are toxic when they are out of balance which is my point. My focus on estrogen was relevant to BPA.
Avoid toxins and eat well and your hormones (thyroid) will thank you

As I said before, estrogen is also toxic. We know this, in animals at least, from spayed dog and cat data. Both hormones, at natural levels, lead to a shortened life expectancy and increased risk of certain cancers compared to not having those hormones. It's fact, not speculation or feminism. To be honest, if I were allowed and could afford it, I would have my breast and ovaries removed right now, as they are the biggest risk for breast and ovarian cancer, and I don't need or want them. If we really wanted our children to have long and healthful lifes, aside from teaching them good eating and exercise habits, we would also de-sex them. There is good evidence that this would also lead to less by-stander death and harm due to reduced violence and dangerous driving. But my point is not really to diss reproductive hormones, more to assert my point of view that sometimes (often) we rationalise things that are good for us when they're not, and equally we can rationalise that things that are bad for us when they are not. There is no evidence that BPA is bad for me or you at the levels we are exposed to. There is plenty of evidence that our reproductive hormones are.

>No chemicals like BPA at all.

I hope this isn't leading to "because it's natural it isn't just as bad for us"? As you yourself realise, there are many plant and animal compounds that can have nasty effects. You mentioned several that you knew to avoid, but our ancestors didn't know this, and eating all that soy didn't seem to stop Asians from reproducing. Now, more than ever, we CAN choose our poisons as science discovers more about the world we live in. That's how we know BPA might not be good for young people or pregnant mothers (though this is still speculative as the work has really only been done in non-humans thus far).

I certainly would not trade my circumstances for that of a Spartan, no matter how legendary their health was. But I agree that eating a healthy diet and getting lots of exercise is important to long term health and longevity. In fact, everyone knows this, so once again people choose their poison knowingly. If someone develops diabetes, obesity, heart disease or whatever, at least they know WHY, and how they likely could have avoided it.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Chemical exposure on 01/04/2009 17:20:58 MST Print View

As I have said many times and will say again:

Overall even with all the plastics, oil and god knows what else we use we are still better off than our ancestors - and by that, I mean even 20 to 30 years ago - with every advance we are still better off than the generation before.

We cry about BPA linings used in cans, yet those linings keep our food fresh and free of rust. Anyone over 25 will remember cans going "bad". First the humidity got to the cans, then the rust got in, then you had bloated cans that could kill you if you ate the food inside.

How about the days of food being invaded by bugs? Wasn't that long ago for modern countries that it was considered normal to pick them out of flour, grains, rice, etc. Heck, I am only 35 and can remember that!

My son drank out of baby bottles that were Lexan branded.
He drank soy formula. He also drinks a pint of soy milk a day. And is a slender male. Who is all male. Heck, my husband drinks soy milk (so do I) and we eat plenty of tofu as well. Oh yeah...and I drank water often out of Nalgenes when I was PG with him. But ooh, I did have clean water - which is more important - I wasn't facing the nasties that many do in third world countries have in their water - that often make them very sick and kill often.

We worry about so many things that are very insignificant in the big scheme. Yet the important things we gloss over:

A good example: Are your teeth in perfect shape? If not, you have more to worry about than the risk of drinking soup out of a beer can 4 times a year. Let your teeth rot (and many here, I more than sure of, have not seen a dentist in at least 3 years)and you face the diseases that your ancestors died of (or even your parents). A simple cleaning can prevent much of it, the rest can be treated with fillings.

One favorite cry is the wail on BPA and children. Think about this: In the not so distant past many children died in childbirth or were blinded at birth due to a lack of hand washing and ragged fingernails/cuticles. Why did women die after bearing a child in our history? Often, due to filthy hands shoved in there - leaving a breeding ground that gave women septic shock, they would die from it within days. Yet the invention of chemical soaps, gloves and other items can stop almost all cases of that happening. You can bet that if given the choice back then most women would have wanted their child to have a chance to live - just having the child survive is a major advancement. Yet, your chance of getting past 5 was pretty dim up to the past 100-200 years. Did I mention dirty water and rotten food? Yes, and what was that? Oh yeah, those pesky plastics protect food and water, keeping it clean. Something in the past humans didn't have.

Whenever I worry about the implications of drinking out of a plastic container I stop and think about the drugs I take to control my blood pressure (hereditary, I have had high BP since I was a teen). Those meds help my health, yet are still a poison in the end. Yet, I know that they are worth it. They will help me prevent kidney failure and heart issues as I age.

Do you ignore health issues and never see a Dr? Your cholesterol or BP is going to cause many more issues than drinking out of an old Nalgene bottle over the years. Yet many never check it. Have you ever had complete check over for life insurance? (I have) Many haven't - maybe a fear of what will be found, yet if found in time, could be treatable and provide a better life.

Do you drink more than a couple drinks a week? Pop painkillers like candy? Drive a car often? Live in a city? Smoke? Do you work in a sealed office with circulated air? Live in a tightly sealed house full of carpet? Do you have a 'toxic' life full of stress? Do you have depression that is untreated?

If you are going to worry then look at the big picture - the little things that you do when backpacking are just not that important! What you do DAILY at home does matter though. I live life pretty much on the straight and then enjoy a Ho-Ho when I hike :-P And I have never gotten rid of my Nalgenes. I happen to like them and since I use them only when hiking....whoppie-doo.

That is all I have to say about this. If people are fine with it, then let them have their pots! And don't worry so freaking much over the little things in life. You would have a lot more to worry about if you were living in 1909.....

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Re: Chemical exposure on 01/04/2009 17:41:32 MST Print View

You are all free to do what you will. Not a problem for me. I would like to know whats in my food and environment so I can make the choice.
We dont need BPA to can our food :
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_12636.cfm

And we dont need it to cook with either. So I personally say why worry about it? Just remove it from my life where I see it -and problem solved.