Roman:

The Coral snake is one pretty snake! We don't have those here in California -- although we do have the 'pretender' King snake:


And as the saying goes:

Red on black, OK Jack.
Red on yellow, kills a fellow.

Edited by ben2world on 12/02/2008 20:59:34 MST.

hey Ben, you gonna eat that?

(btw... "other specified" is likely 'mostly' moquitoes which account for more human death worldwide than reptile and mammal attacks combined)

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 12/02/2008 21:09:25 MST.

LOL. The baby snake was too cute to eat. It was also too curious for its own good -- although I'm sure the 'photo shoot' has given it a healthy fear of humans -- which will hopefully translate into a long and happy life.

Edited by ben2world on 12/02/2008 21:04:31 MST.

"However, I believe that most rattlesnakes in the United States have hematoxic venom so a snake bite kit is a good idea a lot of times, in the US at least."

They're all hemotoxic except for the coral snake, which is not typically deadly except perhaps for the very young or very old. Apparently seizures are the most common symptom of a coral snake bite in children, episodic and non-recurring with medical treatment.

Also, the eastern timber rattlesnake is actually one of the more potently hemotoxic venomous snakes in the US, reclusive though this species may be. I'm not sure if it's on par with the Mojave Green rattlesnake in terms of toxicity, and certainly not for aggression, but its venom is known to pack more of punch than many a western rattler.

Most rattlesnake bites contain hemotoxic elements which damage tissue and affect the circulatory system by destroying blood cells, skin tissues and causing internal hemorrhaging. Rattlesnake venom also contains neurotoxic components which immobilize the nervous system, affecting the victim's breathing, sometimes stopping it. Most rattlesnakes have venom composed primarily of hemotoxic properties. Baby rattlesnakes and the Mojave Rattler are the exception; they have venom which contains more neurotoxic properties than hemotoxic -- which makes them very dangerous.

Apparently the hemotoxic to neurotoxic ratios among pit viper species in the US are in flux.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_6_109/ai_63290990

Excerpted:
Do all populations of Mojave rattlesnakes have neurotoxic venom? While doing their work a quarter century ago, the Salt Lake City researchers found that they didn't. In the western and southern parts of the species' range in Arizona and southeastern California, many individuals had the more virulent Mojave A, whereas populations in other parts of Arizona and Texas had the nonneurotoxic Mojave B toxin. But it wasn't long before populations with both A and B surfaced. Some herpetologists thought those results suggested the likelihood of interbreeding among local populations of the same species.

Edited by blister-free on 12/03/2008 10:58:59 MST.

Art states:

"However, I believe that most rattlesnakes in the United States have hematoxic venom so a snake bite kit is a good idea a lot of times, in the US at least."

Yes, most poisonous snakes in the US are pit vipers, with the coral snake as one of the exceptions.

Here's a source for scientific literature on the actual effectiveness of the extractor, one of the ones that led WMI and other institutions to no longer recommend its use for snakebite:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WB0-4BGH766-M&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f0fad626321f2d76386314585b4bee85

The best recommendation is to clean and loosely dress the bite, keep the bitten limb at heart level if possible, and evacuate the patient immediately. For elapid bites (Coral snakes here and many others overseas), there's an elastic wrap technique that's gained some favor, but the advice is still to evacuate immediately, wrapped or not.

The one case where the extractor is still considered potentially effective is for insect bites and stings, though even there you run the risk of a bit of "collateral damage", and depending on the patient, administration of antihistamines or an epi pen could be the more immediate concern.

Ultimately, taking the extractor is a personal decision - learn as much as you can and don't take any advice, especially online, as gospel. Based on my training and research, I've chosen to go with the protocol and not take one, nor would I use it if it were at hand.

Edited by slnsf on 12/03/2008 12:57:15 MST.

You know, the funny thing is that most bushwalkers in Australia don't bother with a snakebite kit at all. Which is kinda strange when you realise that the snakes we have here are probably the deadliest in the world - and ditto the spiders.
Instead, we just leave them alone and do NOT pick them up!

Cheers

I just bought a snakebite kit a week ago after a close encounter with a rattlesnake in the Grand Canyon. I walked right by the snake and it was NOT HAPPY. I was definitely within striking distance. At that point, I was between the Clear Creek use area and the Colorado River...or about 13 trail miles from the nearest ranger station. In situations where I'm that far from help, I think I won't mind carrying the extra weight for even a marginally effective snakebite kit. Here's a pic of the snake:

http://www.rimtorim.com/e107_plugins/coppermine_menu/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=25

>you know, the funny thing is that most bushwalkers in Australia don't bother with a snakebite kit at all. Which is kinda strange when you realise that the snakes we have here are probably the deadliest in the world - and ditto the spiders.
Instead, we just leave them alone and do NOT pick them up!

I was nearly bitten by a big brown a few years ago near Mawson Hut, Jugungal Wilderness, KNP, most snakes disappear when they hear you coming but this time I did not see it and the snake was sunning its self, I nearly stepped on it, the snake reared up ready to strike, I recon that I walked backward through the air, the snake watched me ready to strike until I was out of site. I had no gaiters on or snake bit kit on me and I was on my own, I now carry a compression bandage kit and PLB.

Tony


A Tiger or Copper head snake that I encountered the weekend before last in the bush

Instead of an over-the-counter snakebite kit with all the frills which apparently do more harm then good, is this a situation when an EpiPen would be a better alternative (or even an option)?

Only treatment is anti-venom. Leave the kit, can cause more harm to bite area. Stay calm get to help ASAP! Don't pick them up. They don't like it, they don't learn fear of humans from it. And the vast majority of bites are from people trying to pick them up. Watch Venom ER on Discovery Channel. You won't want to touch one again!

What I want to know is, how do you get killed by a non-venomous arthropod? Arthropods are mainly Insects, Arachnids, and Crustaceans. How does a non-venomous one kill you?

Edited by andydolman on 12/03/2008 18:02:35 MST.

I wonder if arthropod-related food mishaps fall under the non-venomous arthropod category. For instance somebody who is allergic to shellfish accidentally eats a whole plate of shrimp and doesn't get medical attention?

Edited by artsandt on 12/03/2008 18:17:35 MST.