I am working on getting my pack weight down. I started at 30 lbs 4 years ago and have been chipping away at the weight ever since. This fall I finally broke the 11 lb barrier and am currently at a 9 lb base pack wt. However, I don't have a pack yet for this new weight. My old pack is the Gregory Z55 which is too heavy at 3.2 lbs and is probably too large as well.

I am not sure how to go about determining the pack I need for the gear I carry. I have looked at a few and like the MLD Exodus, MLD Prophet, ZPack Blast 32, or maybe ZPack Z1. Will they be big enough? Will they be too big?

I like these packs because they seem solid but light weight. Just not sure about capacity.

Here's my current list. All comments and suggestions welcome. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Clothing:
Socks, quarter length, extra pr 1.9 oz
Sports bra, extra, Champion 2.9 oz
Windshirt: Marmot 4.8 oz
* Rain pants: Golite Reed 6.3 oz
* Rain poncho: disposable 2.2 oz
Hat: Polartec fleece 2.1 oz
Balaclava: Smartwool merino wool 1.8 oz
Gloves: wool mittens 2.9 oz
Insulation: BPL merino wool top 4.7 oz
Insulation: BPL merino wool bottoms 3.9 oz
Insulation: Thermawrap jacket Montbell 8.3 oz
Compression sac for above 1.6 oz

First Aid, in zip lock:
Moleskin, 1 sheet 0.3 oz
Small scissors w/ tip protector 0.6 oz
Pins, needle 0.4 oz
Alcohol wipes x5 0.3 oz
Bandaids, assorted x5 0.2 oz
4x4 dressing sponge x2 0.5 oz
Tape: 3M, small roll 0.4 oz
Tegaderm adhesive dressing, medium x1 0.3 oz
Bacitracin ointment pkts x2 0.2 oz
Medication: assorted pain, headache in ziplock 0 oz
Medication: Anihistamine, decongestant 0.2 oz
Alka Seltzer plain 2 tablets 0.4 oz

Kitchen:
Spoon: Lexan Tbsp 0.3 oz
Filter: Sawyer 1.8 oz
Water RX: Micropur tablets x6 0.2 oz

Sleep/Shelter:
Mummy bag: WM Ultralite 20 degree 29 oz
Compression sac for mummy 2 oz
* Sleep pad: closed cell 20x72 7.6 oz
* Tent: Squall II 34 oz

Safety/Survival, in zip lock:
Mirror: Mini Rescue Signal 0.4 oz
*Triptease lightline 48' 1.3 oz
* Light: Princeton Tek headlamp 3.5 oz
Light: Photon Freedom w/clip 0.6 oz
Whistle: Slim Rescue Howler 0.2 oz
*Knife: 2" blade, foldable 2 oz
Fire: Spark-Lite fire starter 0.3 oz
Fire: Mini BIC lighter 0.4 oz
Fire: UL tinder, in mini zip lock 0.2 oz

Comfort/Personal, in zip lock:
Soap/Tooth cleaner: Dr Bronner's, 15 ml 1.2oz
Toothbrush: finger 0.05 oz
Floss 0 oz
Sunscreen: SPF 55, 15ml 0.8 oz
Sunscreen: lip 0.3 oz
Kleenex x5 sheets 0.3 oz
TP: 8 sheets ea x4 0.6 oz
Wet knap x1 0.3 oz
Hand sanitizer 0.8 oz
Spade for cat holes 1.2 oz
Towel: MSR, small, no pouch 0.6 oz
Daily medication 0.3 oz
Mosquito repellant, Picaridin, 15 ml 0.9 oz
Mosquito net: BPL 0.33 0z
Pen, 1 piece paper 0.3 oz
Camera batteries for P80 x2 2 oz
Camera lens: Polarizer 2.3 oz
ID, insurance card 0.2 oz
Keys: house, car 1.3 oz

Hydration/Food/Fuel:
*Platypus: Hoser 2L full 67.6 oz
Food: 2 day 24.2 oz

Wear/Carry:
Shoes: Trail runner, Merrill Siren 22.2 oz
Sock: quarter length 1.9 oz
Sports Bra Champion 2.9 oz
*Shirt: Patagonia Capilene 1, long sleeve 4.9 oz
*Pants: REI nylon zip-off, legs on 13.3 oz
Hat: Sunday Afternoon 2.4 oz
*Poles:Leki 16.8 oz
Gloves: biking, for poles 1.2 oz
Knee pad x1 0.1 oz
Compass: Silva 1.1 oz
Map: Tom Harrison, avg wt, in pocket 1.7 oz
Camera: Nikon P80 around neck 10 oz

Summary:
Clothing.............................43.4 oz.....2.713 lbs
First Aid.............................3.8 oz.......0.238 lb
Kitchen..............................2.3 oz.......0.144 lb
Sleep/Shelter.....................73.5 oz.....4.594 lbs
Safety/Survival...................8.9 oz.......0.556 lb
Comfort/Personal..............13.8 oz.....0.861 lb
Hydration/Food/Fuel.........91.9 oz.....5.738 lbs
Wear/Carry.......................78.5 oz.....4.906 lbs

Base Wt..............................145.7oz.....9.105 lbs
Total Wt.............................237.5oz.....14.84 lbs
Skin-out Wt.......................316.0 oz.....19.75 lbs

Items with an * are items I plan to change (ie: get a ponch/tarp and bivy and drop the tent and rain pants. I am looking at lighter alternatives for some items. Generally I do not cook so no stove listed. I do have a stove and Kettle if needed for colder climates. I also have a required (hated) bear vault for the sierras which I must configure into my pack size. But I don't carry it if I don't have to.

Thank you again for taking a look at the list and helping with the pack options. I have struggled with this decision for several months now and am no closer to a decision. Fresh eyes and experience will see what I cannot.
LV

Very impressive list...you are over 2 lbs lighter than my own kit and I am using a Bivy & Poncho Tarp!

Clothing wise, the only thing that I would suggest is going with the Golite Wind shirt, which is about 3.0 oz, but does not have a hood. You can also ditch the Golite Reed pants and go to a 2.0 oz pair of rain chaps from MLD. The Balaclava would be optional or for when you expect cold weather. Otherwise, you should be fine with the fleece hat.

If you are going solo, and you know this, switching to a solo tarp tent or poncho tarp and bivy will save you the most weight on your list.

If you like using the foam sleeping pad, move to a GG torso pad and a thin light pad for a total of around 5.2 oz.

Since you have the headlight, lose the Photon, unless you want it as a backup light.

You might want to replace the spade with a aluminum snow stake...should be lighter and it does the job for digging cat holes and you could use it as a stake for your shelter.

Depending on how many miles you plan on traveling, you seem a little light on food at less than 1 lb of food per day, but I have to admit that I have not weighted my food recently for the trips that I have taken.

The knee pads are light, but you might want to let them know that you are using the for photography...it is an odd looking bit of kit.

Anyway, great list and hope that this helps.

If anything, I should be asking you for help lightening my own kit vs. the reverse!

-Tony

Base Wt..............................145.7oz.....9.105 lbs
Total Wt.............................237.5oz.....14.84 lbs
Skin-out Wt.......................316.0 oz.....19.75 lbs

Linda - Just so you know - this is awesome!

That said - I went thru your list below, and I was pretty bold as far as advice on what to leave behind. The list is great, it is very light (except for that porky tent), and all the stuff I recomend NIXING is pretty minimal if you actually weigh it all out. It's more the mind-set that's an issue. Keep that in mind.

You seem motivated to really go for it, and I kept that in mind as I reviewed and editorilized below.

I am assuming you are going out for two-days and a single night (24.2 ounces of food), so my comments reflect that.

= = = = =

Compression sac for above 1.6 oz
Compression sac for mummy 2 oz

What? Oh c'mon, what are these gunna do? These are for "traditional" backpacking. Nix 'em. A down bag will smoosh just fine, compression stuff sacks are bowling balls.

If you wanna waterproof your gear (and I see nothing in you list for water proofing) use a 2.1 ounce HEFTY trash COMPACTOR BAG as a liner for your entire pack. These are very strong, last for years, and are easy to find at the grocery store.

= = =

Water RX: Micropur tablets x6 0.2 oz
Filter: Sawyer 1.8 oz

Filter and chlorine tabs? And - Sawyer Filter - I don't know what that filter is...

What is a filter gunna do? Ditch the filter, and use chlorine drops rather than the tabs (they require a long time to work). Repackage in BPL micro-dropper bottles. KLEAR-WATER or RE-packaged AQUA-MIRA.

= = =

ID, insurance card 0.2 oz
Keys: house, car 1.3 oz

What? You gunna drive while you are out there? Hide the key at the car, and PLEASE liberate yourself from any trappings like an ID.

= = =

Food: 2 day 24.2 oz

12.1 ounces of food per day? I gotta ask, have you tested this? Just curious. That's pretty low.

= = =

* Tent: Squall II 34 oz

A tent for solo camping in california? This is - by far - your HEAVIEST ITEM. If you wanna save weight, solve this! My advice - Oh PLEASE, ditch it and use your head net to sleep. Replace with a solo tarp. If you go out for on night, with a down bag under a tarp, it may get a littel damp in a windy rains storm, but just pack it damp and dry it out at home after the short trip.

Bivy sacks are a nice addition to a tarp, but no need on a single overnight hike in a place where rain is unlikely.

= = =

You don't show the pack-weigh in the actual LIST.

MLD Exodus is too big (unless you plan on using the bear canister), the PROPHET (10.5 oz) is fine (2000 cubic inches is plenty!)

= = =

Comfort/Personal..............13.8 oz.....0.861 lb

Over 3/4 of a POUND?!?!? This is too high for a single night out. Trim it way down.

= = = =

Wet knap x1 0.3 oz
Hand sanitizer 0.8 oz
Kleenex x5 sheets 0.3 oz
TP: 8 sheets ea x4 0.6 oz
Alcohol wipes x5 0.3 oz
Soap/Tooth cleaner: Dr Bronner's, 15 ml 1.2oz

Hand sanitizer AND wet knaps? Both? Why? And Dr. Bronner's soap too? And alcohol wipes in the first aid kit? And - Kleenex and TP? For one night out???

Understandably, these are VERY light, and it won't make any difference once you ditch that 34 ounce tent. But, it's the philosophy (the beautiful mindset) of traveling with as little as possible. Liberate yourself from as much as you possibly can. This is a redundant list of comfort items.

I KNOW you'll be fine without ONLY the soap. And 15 ml of Dr. B's for an overnight??? That's over kill. Re-package in the itty-bitty BPL Bozeman Mountain Works MicroDrop Dropper Bottle

Also - Read this article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

= = =

Spade for cat holes 1.2 oz
A camp trowel? That is a "traditional" camping tool in a UL backpack. You do NOT need it. You can dig a cat hole with a stick or rock (or tent stake) See the link above to the TOILET PAPER FREE article.

= = =

Towel: MSR, small, no pouch 0.6 oz
What's the towel for? I mean really it, what's it for??? You need to answer that before you put it in your pack.

= = =

Safety/Survival...................8.9 oz.......0.556 lb
Over half a POUND?This seems way too high.

_____________________
*Triptease lightline 48' 1.3 oz
* Light: Princeton Tek headlamp 3.5 oz
Light: Photon Freedom w/clip 0.6 oz
*Knife: 2" blade, foldable 2 oz
Fire: Spark-Lite fire starter 0.3 oz
Fire: Mini BIC lighter 0.4 oz

QUESTION: Is the string for a bear hang?
Two headlamps for an overnight? Why?
Two fire starters for an overnight when you don't even have a stove? A paper book of matches is the lightest, and very dependable.
A 2 inch, 2 ounce knife? Take a .1 oz single edge razor.

= = =

* Rain poncho: disposable 2.2 oz

Is this for real? I assume you are camping in a part of california with minimal chance of rain. If so, this seems like a perfect "just in case" piece of gear.

= = =

* Rain pants: Golite Reed 6.3 oz
*Pants: REI nylon zip-off, legs on 13.3 oz
Insulation: BPL merino wool bottoms 3.9 oz

These three are redundant, especially for a place with minimal rain. The set up you have here would be perfect for the NOrth Cascades for a month.

If you hike in the REI nylon pants, and it rains, they will still function as quick dry pants, and you'll be fine. It may be better to NIX the REED pants and take BPL wool bottoms.

= = =

Hat: Polartec fleece 2.1 oz
Balaclava: Smartwool merino wool 1.8 oz

Both of these, AND a mummy sleeping bag? Nix the heavier fleece hat, and wear the Balaclava rolled up - like a hat.

= = =

Just so y'know - I was merciless with my editorializing. It may seem extreme, but you should really try it. I encourage you to be bold!

Mike!

Edited by mikeclelland on 11/30/2008 13:55:52 MST.

Ohhh - a little more.

How well can you predict the weather where you plan to hike?

If the forecast is for clear skies (I've been to california) and you trust your instincts . LEAVE THE TENT OR TARP BEHIND. Sleep under the stars.

Edited by mikeclelland on 11/28/2008 09:40:23 MST.

Linda,
Great job, you have a very nice gear list. Tony and Mike offered/provided great comments and suggestions.

As they have stated your existing shelter offers the greatest weigh saving potential, this and a new pack.

As a solo shelter a TT Contrail or Sublite would save a fair amount of weight and keep you in a system you are used to. A tarp/bivy system will save even more weight and allow for the ability to select a shelter combination that best suits the forecast and trip. Take just the bivy or just the tarp or you have the option to carry both. A nice tarp/bivy combo, MLD or others, will save over half the weight of your Squall II.

I have a 09 Prophet which is a very nice, small pack. the prophet would work well for short trips or longer trips with frequent resupplies. The 09 Exodus is closer in volume to you old Z55 and would provide greater volume for longer trips. If you can only afford one pack I would opt for the MLD Exodus (or similar sized ULA pack)IMHO. * The MLD site states that the Exodus is large enough for a slol bear canister.

Edited by thomdarrah on 11/28/2008 11:08:07 MST.

Thank you Tony, Mike, and Thom for your interest and feedback. Brutal is good.
I can see many ways to lighten the load. Even as I typed the list I knew some items were redundant but it's hard to change the "what if" & "just in case" voices in my head when I pack. Old habits die hard (LOL).

I am interested in getting an MLD poncho/Tarp or a Six Moons Gatewood cape to replace the tent. Not sure about the cape length though. I'm just over 5' 6". The cape may be too long for me.

I generally don't have much appetite the first couple of days out so don't eat much. But what I take is calorie and nutrition packed. For longer trips the weight would be much higher. My appetite usually returns around day 4. I'm sure is the effects of altitude.

So, if I pare down will I still need a pack the size of the Exodus or will a ZPack do the job? I guess I'm leaning towards the Exodus so I'll have room for expansion. It does have a compression system for smaller loads. But I sure do like the weight of the Zpacks. Very inviting.

I will go over my list - with brutality - and update it on my profile page (I'll keep it current as I work on it)

Thank you all again for your input. It's greatly appreciated.
LV

PS: Will address more of the comments in the future. Off to work now

Edited by eastbayhiker on 11/28/2008 14:26:39 MST.

The Gatewood Cape is a good idea. It improves the quality of your rain gear, probably removes the need for a bivy, and you could add Ron's net shelter inside for buggy months.

An ounce of mosquito repellent seems like a lot for an overnight. I've use 0.25 ounce of 100% DEET for trips longer than a week.

Thanks Brian for your feedback. I do like the Gatewood cape as it becomes a complete shelter if needed. I will call Six Moons to see if I'm too short for it. From all the feedback I see I need smaller bottles to contain my soap and mosquito repellant. I use Picaridin instead of DEET because all the Deet products I've used in the past leave a greasy film and it melts plastic (accidently got some spray on my on my camera and it softened the plastic casing around the shutter-froze the shutter-fortunately I was able to fix it when I returned home).

LV

Linda - Consider using a small eye dropper of ___ (visine, etc) for small volume storage and application of liquids. When you open the top, the nozzle the liquid comes out can be popped off and its contents replaced with what ever you want. Then the dropper/nozzle part can be re-inserted.

Brian, good idea! The bottles I currently use have fixed parts and I have to tediously suck up the solutions into the bottles. Much easier if I can pour in the contents. Thanks for the tip.
LV

Linda - I just posted two different lists, just for newer enthusiasts (like you!).


My standard 3-season LIST:
______________________
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=16986&skip_to_post=128721#128721


A "pretty good" 3-season LIST:
______________________
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=16992&skip_to_post=128752#128752



Compare and contrast these two lists at the links noted above. The "standard" list comes in a little bit lower in weight, but it requires a little extra dedication by the user (skill and specilized gear).

I hope this is helpful.

Thank you for posting your two lists. Fun to compare the two. The "pretty good list" is HEAVY as I look at things now. LOL. I have seen the light (pun intended) When I first got back into packing I made many purchases at REI. But I did notice it was hard to find light weight gear. Until I discovered BPL I had no idea what light weight gear was available.

I worked on my list this weekend and will post it soon. It's considerably lighter thanks to all the input I received. I'm still amazed at how much weight can be dropped by dropping ounces.

LV