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Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Remote Alcohol Canister Stove on 10/30/2008 16:48:30 MDT Print View

After playing around with canister stoves of the regular kind I had the idea to make aan Alcohol Canister Stove of the remote type.

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Keith Selbo
(herman666) - F - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
cool on 10/31/2008 10:36:53 MDT Print View

Nice job!

Frank Deland
(rambler) - M

Locale: On the AT in VA
stove on 10/31/2008 16:47:42 MDT Print View

Cannot get sound with your video.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: stove on 10/31/2008 18:53:17 MDT Print View

I'm sorry to say I'm shy and not on speaking terms with my camera. Just kidding.

I don't have a cam corder just a little cheepie camera that takes 20 seconds of video at a time. No sound feature to it.

This video was put together quickly to make it available to all the "Stovies" on bplite. They need to be fed on a regular basis or else the go into withdrawl hahahahaha

I'm short on time nowadays to produce a better edit of my segments. Sorry about the inconvenience.

Thanks for the compliment Herman.

Edited by zelph on 10/31/2008 18:54:01 MDT.

Jason Klass
(jasonklass) - F

Locale: Parker, CO
Remote Fuels Stove on 10/31/2008 18:58:01 MDT Print View

Hey Zelph,
WOW, awesome design! I have been following Tinny's experiments with this stove:
http://minibulldesign.com/myadventure/

I actually was thinking of making something similar to what you came up with (one that has an integrated pot stand). Is yours made from a wedding tin? Also, what kind of wicking material are you using? Fiberglass cloth?

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Remote fuel canister stove on 10/31/2008 20:10:59 MDT Print View

Nice job- looks marketable!!! Whats the weight and cost per-stove?

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Remote fuel canister stove on 11/01/2008 11:12:40 MDT Print View

Hi Jason and Jay. Thanks for the compliments. My remote canister project has given rise to having some tools and parts that made this adaptation possible. I'm doing some vigorus testing to make it marketable. Lot's of variables to deal with once you start putting a product out to the public. Tinny is going to get himself into some serious trouble someday because he only does a few bench tests and then sell his stuff to "Joe Public" (Joe sure does get around) His history shows that his wick stoves had the wicks solidify when the stove burned dry. To resolve the issue he included extra wick(thanks alot) That type of thing is agravating to the Joes for sure. His tube attached directly to the burner is an accident ready to happen on the unexpected Joe. Joe being the inexperienced stove operator. They are the ones that are going to get hurt. His stove is easily upset if the outside fuel resevoir is bumped. It will telescope the "bump" right to the open burner under the pot. Not good. Also the tubing will fail when subjeted to direct flame that no doubt will happen because it is in such close proximity to the flame.
That type of thing does'nt bother the SS StarLyte UltraLyte stove as you can see in the video. I'm going to make available the burner only that's used in the stove for those that are interested just in the burner portion. The SS is the stainless steel mesh cover that protects the special fuel absorbing material (propriatary) imported from Sweden. The stove is super tough yet very light weight.

Next week I'll try to get some photos of the assembly process for every one to see how it made in America =)

Edited by zelph on 11/01/2008 11:15:45 MDT.

Eric Fitz
(pounce) - F
Not sure I see it on 11/01/2008 12:57:03 MDT Print View

I'm feeling a little dumb. What's the advantage of having remote fuel for an alcohol stove? Seems like it adds complexity.

It also seems to me there might be a safety risk if you don't have a safety valve in the supply line. It would be possible to overfill the stove if the bottle was squeezed by accident which could cause a nasty spill and possibly a dangerous fire.

I'm curious about your perspective on this. I'm sure you have thought about these thing when building the stove.

Eric Fitz
(pounce) - F
Tygon tubing to 400 degrees on 11/01/2008 13:11:15 MDT Print View

You might be able to eliminate your metal pipe if you use some Tygon tubing.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/variant.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=12078&product%5Fid=12305&variant%5Fid=58080

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Not sure I see it on 11/01/2008 15:33:03 MDT Print View

Having an unlimited burn time would certainly enhance the stove's versatility with respect to cooking versus merely boiling fixed amounts of water (a limitation of any alcohol burner I've used). I too wonder about snuffing the stove and whether there's significant fuel left to be drained off or burned off.

Still, it's a neat design exercise that could hold a lot of promise!

Eric Fitz
(pounce) - F
Lift and squirt on 11/01/2008 18:01:34 MDT Print View

Isn't it pretty straight forward to just lift the pot and squirt some more alcohol into the already burning stove? I have squirt bottles with needle droppers on them that could probably work for in-fight refills. You can find these at craft and restaurant supply stores.

Mark Hurd
(markhurd) - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: Re: Remote fuel canister stove on 11/01/2008 18:36:42 MDT Print View

Dan,

Your input and knowledge of stoves along with your innovation is a great addition to these threads.

I also note that you have significant, shall I call it: "philosophical differences" with Tinny that I suspect color your reviews of his stoves.

I am curious as to how you know he only does a "few bench tests" before he markets a new stove? From his web site it is clear that he usually field tests his new creations and his designs often seem to go through several iterations before they are put up for sale.

"The tubing will fail" is a noteworthy observation if he were using cheap plastic tubing, but he says he is using high temperature silicone tubing and his positioning low on the stove does not appear to be in any more "close proximity to the flame" than your metal tube. Since the metal tube (which should conduct heat rather well) is cool enough to hold with your bare hand
I would assume that his tubing would be ok, too.

Tinny's stove uses an internal wick, made in America not in Sweden and not proprietary, but it is less likely to spill if the "bump" scenario happens. Still I would agree that that is a weak point for his stove. But let's face it all these stoves have the potential to be a hazard to "Joe Public."

All in all, I like your stove and it certainly has potential. I have purchased a StarLyte from you as well as a couple of stoves from Tinny. I have frequented bplite.com also and have really liked some of your other designs, but I also think Tinny has some great designs, too.

I wish you luck with your new stove and thanks for sharing it with us.

Happy Trails,
-Mark

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Lift and squirt on 11/01/2008 19:00:30 MDT Print View

To pharaphrase the Top Gear boys, "What could possibly go wrong?"

I have a few alcohol stoves and none of them is a design that encourages me to squirt liquid fuel into the reservoir while the stove is burning. There may be some out there that one could do so with, but even then do they allow the user to refuel without first taking off the pot and windscreen?

That said, I suspect most alcohol stove users are boil-and-eat cookers. This concept may be strictly a niche product, but expands the realm nevertheless.

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Re: Re: Re: Remote fuel canister stove on 11/01/2008 22:08:12 MDT Print View

Hi Eric, Rick and Mark,

If the stove was at max full and the bottle was accidently squeezed it would surely overflow and cause a nast spill and possibly a dangerous fire. I agree with your thinking. Like Rick said, having an unlimited burn time would enhance the stoves versatility. The stove can be snuffed out with lightweight aluminum potted meat container that is used to store the stove in. Once the flame is snuffed out, the stove can be put into the container to prevent evaporation of the fuel that remains in the stove. The light weight Trangia solves some problems for those that are concerned about fuel remaining once a boil is acheived. I think most of us are able to determine the amount of fuel needed to boil water in our specific stove that we dont concern ourselves with fuel remaining. Mark you saw how quickly tinny changed the tubing on his burner. It's only because of what was said by "fireondemand" that he changed in the middle of the stream. He's in a constand mode of change. I've been making stoves as long as he has and maybe even more. I've watched his progression ever since he started spamming websites. I've watched and read his statement and I can see how he operates. Did you ever see him spill fuel around his stoves and the fuel would catch on fire, well that what is going to happen to Joe Public. The tubing will melt and catch on fire. The tubing is heat resistand, not fire proof. Those of you that have silicon tubing put a match to it and watch it melt and catch on fire. I'm not here to sell anyone stoves, just to share a concept in stove making. As the ideas come to me, I share them at bplite first(most of the time) and then come here second.I don't come here to talk about tinny, I did't bring up his website or anything else. It's ok to have something that is propriatary.

Monday I'll post something that might be interesting to some on the "Lift and Squirt" idea.

Thanks for the comments and compliments.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Remote Alcohol Fed Stove on 11/01/2008 22:24:40 MDT Print View

Dan,

The alcohol stove looks great. Is there a way to recapture unused fuel as
soon as the water begins to boil? This would be a pioneering feature for
alcohol stoves and would broaden the mission profile for them. I look
forward to your future development and to their availability for purchase.

On a different note are you continuing to play with the remote canister
stove? Sure hope so!!

With best regards,

John

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Remote Alcohol Canister Stove on 11/02/2008 04:02:58 MST Print View

> I had the idea to make aan Alcohol Canister Stove of the remote type.

lol.

I can see why you've adopted Tinny's idea though. A remote reservoir for adding extra fuel during cooking is a necessity for a stove which needs a full ounce of fuel to boil two cups. ;-)

> I don't come here to talk about tinny.

You seem to have plenty to say about the guy all the same.

Sorry Dan, after the slagging you gave me for not sending you a free sample of my volcano kettle to test, I can't resist. :-)

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Remote fuel canister stove on 11/02/2008 10:21:21 MST Print View

re. Silicone tubing, for anybody concerned about heat resistance I recommend investigating automotive silicone vacuum hose rather than the more common aquarium air hose. It's tougher and more heat-resistant. I *don't* know, however, how it responds to open flame--and suspect it would eventually melt. In an engine compartment it works very well, even where it touches the engine directly. It would be vastly safer than inexpensive vinyl tubing.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Parts Safety on 11/02/2008 12:53:45 MST Print View

Nice tip Rick. This would be available at auto parts stores and possibly hobby shops selling gas powered vehicles?? Thanks, John

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Parts Safety on 11/02/2008 14:09:20 MST Print View

Hi John,

I haven't seen it at the usual places like Kragan, but it's quite common at specialty and performance auto part dealers. Here's an example:

http://www.hosetechniques.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=196&products_id=2813

Cheers,

Rick

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Remote fuel canister stove parts safety on 11/02/2008 15:14:55 MST Print View

As most of you would know I am a designer and maker of both myog canister and myog alcohol stoves, at times I get over confident and therefore a bit slack with safety, I have had some very near misses, once I nearly burnt down my garage (with alcohol).

I have been publicly derided by BPL management for showing pictures of my stoves with less than the acceptable standard fuel lines and I have no argument with this as modifying stoves can be dangerous.

The last thing I want to do is to get involved in any personality clashes but I was quite shocked at what I saw in Tinny's video and I have to agree with Dan on this one, just pushing a tube in a hole in very thin aluminum is what I would call a very poor safety design, no matter what type of tube used and the heat rating of the fuel line. all plastic gets softer as it get hotter. like most liquids Alcohol reduces in viscosity as it gets hotter and therefore it has a much greater tendency to leak. Alcohol fuel is a highly flammable liquid that has an invisible flame and is very dangerous.

For safety reasons I would like to see Tinny changes his design to at least use a barb.

Tony