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SUL water
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darren stephens
(darren5576) - F

Locale: Down Under
SUL water on 10/19/2008 19:34:23 MDT Print View

G'Day All
I have a question to those who are proponents of SUL. What do you do when you are on a dry walk and you have to carry all your water requirements? I did a dry walk the other day and camped on Mt Yengo ( NSW hikers might know the area) and I had to carry all my water required for the whole trip. About 6 litres. Now while the rest of my gear was minimal and very simple, 6l of water weighs 6kg and that’s that. Now I use a macpac amp35 which has a light frame sheet which handled the weight well but what about those of you who use those frameless packs made of sylnylon etc, what do you do. I would imagine if you tried to carry this much water the pack would slump and give your shoulders a hard time. I am assuming that the option of going SUL in a total perspective I.E not jus gear but food and water as well is subjective to the environment you plan to travel in.
Your thoughts would be helpful
Darren

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: SUL water on 10/19/2008 19:40:21 MDT Print View

www.buydehydratedwater.com

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: SUL water on 10/19/2008 19:49:42 MDT Print View

Ashley:

Let me know if you want some of that shipped to Australia. :)

Mark Hurd
(markhurd) - M

Locale: South Texas
Re: SUL water on 10/19/2008 19:57:07 MDT Print View

Darren,

During a 4 day trek in the Guadalupe Wilderness in west Texas I, like you, had to carry all my water for the trip. 10 liter. I am using a SMD Essences Pack which I have fitted with carbon fiber rods for better load transfer. My base pack wt is about 4.5 kg so I had to haul nearly 15 kg up nearly 1000 meters of elevation gain. So much for UL I thought, but then it occurred to me that my old (pre UL) backpacking base weighed was close to 18 kg without the water, so I was actually 3 kg lighter than I would have been even with the water. That thought didn't make the load any lighter, but I felt better about it.

I think even SUL advocates can't get around the water issue if they have to carry it, then they need a pack that can take the load or some how do without. And doing without might be dangerous in some situations.

-Happy Trails,
Mark

Ashley Brown
(ashleyb) - F
Re: Re: SUL water on 10/19/2008 20:10:28 MDT Print View

> Let me know if you want some of that shipped to Australia.

Thanks Ben! However I'm planning on saving some money by making my own. Saucepan on a stove-top works a treat! You need to make sure you don't "over do it" though... if you dehydrate it too much it can actually disappear! You should be aware there's also a trade-off... I find that you need quite a lot of water to rehydrate the dehydrated liquid. Still, it saves me having to carry the full load of water in my pack, as I can just rehydrate it when I arrive in camp. ;-)

darren stephens
(darren5576) - F

Locale: Down Under
sul water on 10/19/2008 20:16:16 MDT Print View

Ashley
There is another option if you are travelling with a friend. Yo could carry oxegen and they could carry hydrogen. They would have to be a good friend though as they will have to carry twice as much.
Darren

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: sul water on 10/19/2008 20:39:06 MDT Print View

Hope you and your friend don't get separated!

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
SUL water on 10/19/2008 22:27:33 MDT Print View

When I have to carry that kind of water, I just break down and drag out the old Kelty 50th Anniversary.

Paul Tree
(Paul_Tree) - F

Locale: Wowwww
Re: H and O2 on 10/19/2008 22:51:25 MDT Print View

I take the Hydrogen, as long as I can do so in gas form. In my Dirigible.

william hutchinson
(okuncool) - F

Locale: midwest (boo hoo)
"sul water" on 10/20/2008 13:51:11 MDT Print View

I am afraid that this is one of the problems with ultralightweight hiking. You just have to suck it up and carry the water. The idea behind lightweight hiking though is that you carry as little as you need, which can allow you to go faster, so you can then carry less. I hiked the PCT late in a dry year and there was alot of folks night hiked so they didnt have to carry as much water. unfortunately I had to carry 9 liters on one stretch (it got me 44 dry miles), but there was not really an option excep to grin and bear it or go thirsty.

-will

SANDRA GILLESPIE KRAMER
(sandykayak) - F

Locale: South Florida
carrying extra water on 10/20/2008 14:34:42 MDT Print View

could something like this work?

some kind of belt with holsters (think cowboys!!) where you could have two water containers (Platypus?)(one on each side) hanging down from your waist. drink from these first.

made out of cordura or backpack fabric, the weight of the belt/containers wouldn't be as much as a heavier pack.

hey, you could even use straps to tie them to your legs like the cowboys do? !! :)

sandy in miami

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Carrying Minimal Water on 10/20/2008 14:42:28 MDT Print View

I think the ultimate solution is going to be something like a "closed" system. You drink, then your bladder passes the water out to a purifier -- which renders it ready to be re-used again. Fanciful? Perhaps. But even if a 100% closed system isn't feasible, something similar could still go a very long way to minimizing the need for an external water source -- esp. on an excursion of limited days. Imagine if you only have to "top up" a few ounces of water a day -- rather than gulping down multiple liters.

I wouldn't be surprised if the technology shows up in the military first -- then spread to civilian use.

Edited by ben2world on 10/20/2008 14:44:08 MDT.

darren stephens
(darren5576) - F

Locale: Down Under
water on 10/20/2008 14:59:38 MDT Print View

Ben
A considerable amount of fluid is lost through your skin. This is evident by the change in the concentration of your urine. I have friends who work in mines in Queensland that are issued colour charts to manage there level of hydration for that reason. I think the amount of potable fluid reclaimed would have to be substantially supplemented but in a survival situation it could part of a system.
This is one of the things you have to deal with when you live on the driest continent on earth. It seams my initial suspicions were correct. When I need to carry water ill just use a pack suited for the job and as Mark pointed out at least the rest of my weight is low. One other benefit is by the time your near the end you have a dramatic weight reduction from when you started.
As far as trying to push it on the amount of water used I have tried that and for me there’s nothing worse than waking up in the middle of the night due to thirst. My bushwalking is more about enjoying being out there than distance travelled so ill just lug it when I have to
Thanks for the input??
Darren

Edited by darren5576 on 10/20/2008 16:32:08 MDT.

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa) - M
Re: carrying extra water on 10/20/2008 21:24:09 MDT Print View

>some kind of belt with holsters (think cowboys!!) where you could have two water containers (Platypus?)(one on each side) hanging down from your waist. drink from these first.

made out of cordura or backpack fabric, the weight of the belt/containers wouldn't be as much as a heavier pack.

anyone tried this? 2L MSR hydration bladders on each leg look like the gear for the job.

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: SUL water -- water belt on 10/20/2008 21:34:45 MDT Print View

I remember Glen van Peski used a water belt on a PCT hike a couple years ago:

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Photos_Sub_3_2006_2.html

Basically a nylon sleeve you can toss a bladder in. Here's a photo of the water belt. Looks like a workable idea.

-Mark

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Carrying Minimal Water on 10/20/2008 22:35:29 MDT Print View

> You drink, then your bladder passes the water out to a purifier -- which renders it ready to be re-used again. Fanciful? Perhaps.

DUNE, Frank Herbert
Heel pump

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 10/20/2008 22:36:44 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: carrying extra water on 10/20/2008 22:36:28 MDT Print View

> some kind of belt with holsters

Try it - you'll hate it. They bang around and get in the way.

Cheers

Monty Montana
(TarasBulba) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Carrying Minimal Water on 10/23/2008 22:51:41 MDT Print View

"You drink, then your bladder passes the water out to a purifier -- which renders it ready to be re-used again. Fanciful? Perhaps."

Roger, check out last month's news story on Dean Kamen, the inventor of the Segway scooter, as featured on the Colbert Report. He has invented a blender sized apparatus that can "remove the water from a fifty gallon drum of urine." (But where you could get one of those drums is beyond me.) Anyway, it's based on the principle of vapor compression distillation. Probably not SUL, however.

Joseph Morrison
(sjdm4211) - F

Locale: Smokies
Re: Re: Carrying Minimal Water on 10/26/2008 09:41:06 MDT Print View

If I remember correctly the suits captured both urine and perspiration and filtered it back into drinking water. Very cool idea.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Carrying Minimal Water on 10/26/2008 10:18:25 MDT Print View

Kath and I just got back from a 10 day trip to Andalucia last night where we trekked on some hot days. We carried a 2l platy between us and never went thirsty. I did find myself fishing for water down an overgrown gulch with a pan and cordage at 10.30pm one night though. I carry a 2oz pre-mac military water filter.

Strategies include using local knowledge to mark on maps where water sources are, walking at night when the moon is bright, and getting into the shade for a couple of hours in the afternoon.